Texture of the Romulan Star Empire

[Arpy]

I’m wondering about the different peoples and planets of the Romulan empire that have been explored a bit in the books and tie-ins.

There are the Rihannsu, the Romulans themselves, famously.

I remember a Romulan-populated world Quirinus in I think Catalyst of Sorrows. And Vejuro, the closest world to the Romulan system in PIC: Last Best Hope.

There are the Garidians, a Romulan-like people, from the TNG game A Final Unity.

And subject species like the Tyrakhean from PIC: Dark Veil. …there were more in that one too that I can’t remember or find on Memory Beta.

What are some others?

 

[Christopher]

Well, there are the Remans, the one canonical attempt to give the Romulans a subject people, but not much has been done with them in the novels, I think.

 

[Avro Arrow]

In Diane Duane’s works, Remus was called ch’Havran by the Rihannsu, and it was the agricultural breadbasket of the empire. (Quite different from how it ended up being depicted in Nemesis.)

Achernar Prime was a Romulan planet that became the capital of the short-lived Imperial Romulan State.

Well, there are the Remans, the one canonical attempt to give the Romulans a subject people, but not much has been done with them in the novels, I think.

Weren’t the Remans explored somewhat extensively in the Vulcan’s Soul trilogy?

 

[Christopher]

Weren’t the Remans explored somewhat extensively in the Vulcan’s Soul trilogy?

Yeah, but the trilogy depicted them as Romulan settlers who were mutated by Reman life forms, which is not an interpretation I care for. Trek usually gets alien "empires" wrong by treating them as monospecies, when the whole definition of an empire is one state ruling over other states. The Remans were the first attempt to depict the Romulans ruling over another species and actually functioning as an empire, and it ruins that if they're just mutant Romulans. Besides, they don't look Vulcan at all -- their design is based on bats and skulls -- so I'm bewildered where the idea even came from.

 

[JD]

Wasn't there also a story arc with the Remans wanting their independence running through a few of the books that dealt with the aftermath of Nemesis?

 

[Arpy]

Yeah, but the trilogy depicted them as Romulan settlers who were mutated by Reman life forms, which is not an interpretation I care for. Trek usually gets alien "empires" wrong by treating them as monospecies, when the whole definition of an empire is one state ruling over other states. The Remans were the first attempt to depict the Romulans ruling over another species and actually functioning as an empire, and it ruins that if they're just mutant Romulans. Besides, they don't look Vulcan at all -- their design is based on bats and skulls -- so I'm bewildered where the idea even came from.

I mean it came from the pointed ears and vaguely vampiric quality of the Romulans, and Bats writer John Logan not being able to let that other picture go, apparently. …to say that I was not a fan is as polite a way as I can to express my feelings about the “Remans.” I was glad Chabon had no interest in revisiting them.

What Reman lifeforms mutated them—microbial, or…?

Wasn't there also a story arc with the Remans wanting their independence running through a few of the books that dealt with the aftermath of Nemesis?

I think that was Articles of the Federation, no?

 

[KRAD]

Wasn't there also a story arc with the Remans wanting their independence running through a few of the books that dealt with the aftermath of Nemesis?

That plotline started in Titan: Taking Wing and continued in Articles of the Federation. Not sure what was done with it afterward......

 

[James Swallow]

And subject species like the Tyrakhean from PIC: Dark Veil. …there were more in that one too that I can’t remember or find on Memory Beta.

The Taurhai were a Romulan subject species in The Dark Veil, not the Tyrakheans (Jaylah's species from Star Trek Beyond) - although I did put a Tyrakhean character in the novel, as part of the Titan's bridge crew. I also mention the Norkanians as another subject species of the Romulan Star Empire.

The Taurhai Unity come from The Way of D'era, which is a 1999 sourcebook set for playing Romulans in the Last Unicorn Games Star Trek: The Next Generation roleplaying game - in the original background, they're a neighbouring power to the Romulans with an on-again/off-again conflict, and I decided that by the time of Star Trek: Picard, they'd become a client state of the Star Empire, hence one of them being bridge crew on a Romulan ship.

There's also a few references in The Way of D'era to several other species who are inside the Romulan sphere of space, who were conquered or otherwise dominated by the Star Empire - the Zelvorians (who were the original inhabitants of Romulus' sister planet), the Buqret, the Othan, the Tarquin, the N'virri, the Pollarians, the Xhuj and the Noulleroi.

 

[Christopher]

I mean it came from the pointed ears and vaguely vampiric quality of the Romulans

Huh? Since when were Romulans "vaguely vampiric?" They were invented as Space Romans, as is obvious from the name. Unless there's some work of fiction I'm unaware of called The Rise and Fall of the Roman Vampire.

And Remans don't have pointed ears of the elfin type that Vulcanoids have, but of a more batlike type, because they have batlike faces in general.

…to say that I was not a fan is as polite a way as I can to express my feelings about the “Remans.” I was glad Chabon had no interest in revisiting them.

And I still say they were a great idea in concept, regardless of execution, because an interstellar empire should not be monospecies. If it's just Romulans and no subject cultures, then it's not really an empire. The Remans, interpreted as natives conquered by the Romulan settlers, are a great opportunity to explore the dynamic of cultural conquest, assimilation, and displacement by a migratory culture.

the Zelvorians (who were the original inhabitants of Romulus' sister planet)

Huh? Romulus's sister planet is Remus, so logically the original inhabitants should be Remans. Well, I guess "Zelvorian" could be from their own indigenous name for the planet which was replaced with the settlers' name (ch'Havran or whatever) and later by the human designation of Remus. Still, it seems overly convoluted to say there was an entirely different species of Remus natives that got displaced by mutant Romulans. Simpler just to let Remans be the natives of Remus, as Nemesis presumably intended.

 

[Arpy]

Huh? Since when were Romulans "vaguely vampiric?" They were invented as Space Romans, as is obvious from the name. Unless there's some work of fiction I'm unaware of called The Rise and Fall of the Roman Vampire.

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It doesn’t have to be one thing? Yes they were space Romans but right there you already have two things. Plus they had a bit of Asian flare in places. Their look on TNG certainly looked vaguely vampiric to me. Vampires have scary, sexy, and also superior vibes to them, and the Romulans can be supercilious, and all those too.

And Remans don't have pointed ears of the elfin type that Vulcanoids have, but of a more batlike type, because they have batlike faces in general.

Yes but they are pointed ears. And they Romulan-esque forehead ridges.

And I still say they were a great idea in concept, regardless of execution, because an interstellar empire should not be monospecies. If it's just Romulans and no subject cultures, then it's not really an empire. The Remans, interpreted as natives conquered by the Romulan settlers, are a great opportunity to explore the dynamic of cultural conquest, assimilation, and displacement by a migratory culture.

You’re not the only one here that doesn’t like monospecies. I mean, that’s in part what this thread is about. Looking at the broader texture of the Romulan Star Empire in every way.

We can discuss different Romulan races and cultures too btw. Yes, “Northerners” (and the different kinds of forehead ridges on TNG vs NEM vs PIC, for example), but also I like it in novels when we get names for Romulans that follow the TV naming schemes and also say the Rihannsu ones, suggested, again, a more textured society.

 

[Christopher]

Plus they had a bit of Asian flare in places.

Okay, what the hell? What about the Romulans reads as "Asian" to you, and what the hell makes you
associate Asians with vampires? On second thought, don't answer that -- I'm afraid to find out.

Their look on TNG certainly looked vaguely vampiric to me. Vampires have scary, sexy, and also superior vibes to them, and the Romulans can be supercilious, and all those too.

Huh? The Romulans' look on TNG was dominated by bad haircuts and shoulder pads that were excessive even by 1980s standards.

Yes but they are pointed ears. And they Romulan-esque forehead ridges.

The ears and ridges only seem Vulcanoid if you start out with the desire to force them into a Vulcanoid mold. To me, the ears look very different, more batlike, and the forehead shape is obviously meant to evoke a skull. They're based on Nosferatu, not on Romulans.

 

[Arpy]

Okay, what the hell? What about the Romulans reads as "Asian" to you, and what the hell makes you
associate Asians with vampires? On second thought, don't answer that -- I'm afraid to find out.

You seem really angry and I don’t understand why. Nothing I’m saying is new. And, again, it’s not a one-to-one. They’re a mixture of different elements.

Huh? The Romulans' look on TNG was dominated by bad haircuts and shoulder pads that were excessive even by 1980s standards.

Sickly greenish skin, pointed years, vaguely Bela Lugosi hair, a mysterious, threatening, and superior disposition…yeah, it’s not that far off.

The ears and ridges only seem Vulcanoid if you start out with the desire to force them into a Vulcanoid mold. To me, the ears look very different, more batlike, and the forehead shape is obviously meant to evoke a skull. They're based on Nosferatu, not on Romulans.

I see them as Nosferatu’d Romulans. Nosferatu does not have Romulan V ridges after all.

And I mean if they were meant to look completely other, they might have been something like the Jem’Hadar and the Changelings. NEM didn’t want to do that.

 

[Christopher]

You seem really angry and I don’t understand why.

You don't understand how it's offensive to say that Asians remind you of inhuman beings and predatory monsters?