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Day of the Vipers (Please mark Spoilers!)

Newspaper Taxi

Fleet Captain
Fleet Captain
Okay. There was a thread about this book, but it was more of a notice about the book being released and has seemed to have died off so I thought we should have a discussion topic. I've finished Day of the Vipers, and I was blown away. It's weird; I actually wasn't really looking forward to this book at all. My dad and I both buy Star Trek books, though, and then share the collected library and I thought he'd like another three parter. I don't know why I wasn't interested; I like Deep Space Nine a lot. I guess I just thought learning about the history of the Occupation would be like an alien text book but it's as much of a character based story as any other.

I liked how the book also tried to cover both sides of the story -- you could watch the higher up Cardassians as well as important Bajorns. Near the end of the book you even get a third perspective, as well. It's also fascinating to read about the Cardassians formally introducing themselves to Bajor because it's a sort of 'First Contact' story. They both knew about the other species but hadn't ever been in touch with each other. Most of sci-fi First Contact stories involve Humans meeting some alien race so it was a treat to see an alien race meeting another alien race.

It was fun rooting for characters, too. At times I felt things from Dukat's point of view and sometimes I thought of him as the villain he would eventually become. It was also interesting that there were some Bajorns of weak moral character because they're usually presented as being a nearly perfect race; a Mary Sue Race. I wasn't expecting to see Greedy and self serving Bajorns...Although I guess after meeting Kai Winn it probably shouldn't have been as much as shock to me.

But anyway, I loved the book and am eager to read the last two in the trilogy. I also enjoyed the cover art for the story as well; that is the most menacing picture of Dukat I have ever seen. I would probably buy a poster of that if such a thing was out there. But yeah!
 
I also enjoyed the cover art for the story as well; that is the most menacing picture of Dukat I have ever seen. I would probably buy a poster of that if such a thing was out there. But yeah!

Pick up the newest Star Trek magazine from Titan. Full page 8x10ish of that art. I framed it ;)
 
It was also interesting that there were some Bajorns of weak moral character because they're usually presented as being a nearly perfect race; a Mary Sue Race. I wasn't expecting to see Greedy and self serving Bajorns...Although I guess after meeting Kai Winn it probably shouldn't have been as much as shock to me.
Uhm -- did you watch any of DS9? :lol:

Seriously, we got Bajorans "of weak moral character" up the yin-yang, from Tahna Los, who worked with Lursa and B'Etor to try to blow up the wormhole on behalf of the Kohn Ma; to Minister Jaro and the rest of the Circle who, among other things, tortured Kira; to the drunk who stabbed Maritza; to the guy who used his clone to frame Odo for murder, and the other Bajorans who threw things at Odo's office while uttering racist epithets during that investigation; to Neela, who bombed Keiko's school and tried to assassinate Bareil; to the Vaatrik family, the husband being a collaborator and the wife later blackmailing other collaborators to keep their names quiet and her own bank accounts filled; and so on.

The Bajorans were never portrayed as any kind of "Mary Sue" species on DS9....
 
I'm about 120 pages into it and so far it is amazing, it's already made it's way onto my favorite books list. Right now I'm especially anxious to see what happens with the
Oralian Way representatives and the Kai and her people. I've been intrigued by the relationship between the two races, and I'm very curious to see what kind of new stuff we learn by the end of this book, or series.
So far I would say that my favorite characters are Darrah Mace and Bennek.
 
I said this in the previous ds9 book thread. This is one of the best ds9 books I've read in along time. It's fascinating to see the different characters points of view as the story unfolds it gets more intense with each chapter. Dukat was always greedy to begin with when it comes to Bajor.As the book progesses we see what a truly despicable power hungry despot he turns out to be.I like Darren Mace and thought his story was one of my favorites parts of the books as well as the cultural differences between the Cardassians.& Bajorans.I was shocked at some of the twists and turns this story took.James Swallow did an excellent job writting this book. I can't wait to get the last 2 books in this series.
 
The Bajorans were never portrayed as any kind of "Mary Sue" species on DS9....

Ah, but when TNG introduced them? They were a spacefaring species when humans were "not yet standing erect". :p

I think you forgot the part where you have a point. I don't see any connection between what KRAD said and what you said. Or am I being obtuse?

As for the book: if you're a DS9 fan and you haven't yet bought it, what are you waiting for? It may not be set in the series timeframe, it may not have many familiar characters, but there's plenty of good stuff for fans of the TV series and the relaunch novels. People may well be talking about the Terok Nor books twenty years from now the way they talk about The Final Reflection and the Rihannsu books.
 
I'm happy to see I wasn't alone in loving this book. Reading it was such a raw experience for me, I know I wouldn't be able to judge it objectively. I'm curious to see if there will be *any* seriously thought out negative reviews of this, and if so, what bad could be found in it. Because if I try to think objectively and ignore the emotional impact, all I see is excellence. I see incredibly well reasoned world-building, based clearly on what the show gave us, but going well beyond it in ways that make clear sense. I see characters and stories and themes explored thoroughly, but still sprinkled with action scenes that are written in an intensely readable nail-biting fashion. I see descriptions that do their job perfectly without getting in the way and seeming obvious.

I'm someone that tends to praise things effusively, and enjoy things a lot. Because of these tendencies, after I read something I've really enjoyed, I try to find something about it I can criticize in a constructive way, just to make sure I'm not blandly enjoying everything I see regardless of subjective standards of quality. But I'm honestly having a lot of difficulty finding anything here to criticize, which, again, probably has something to do with my experience on the bus reading it.


Has anyone here read James Swallow's other work? After reading Day of the Vipers, I really want to check them out.

Steve, you're making me want to check out 'The Final Reflection' and the Rihannsu books now... do they have a similar power to this one? Cause this was easily the most emotionally powerful Star Trek book I've ever read, and I'd definitely like to check out works in the same vein.
 
Steve, you're making me want to check out 'The Final Reflection' and the Rihannsu books now... do they have a similar power to this one? Cause this was easily the most emotionally powerful Star Trek book I've ever read, and I'd definitely like to check out works in the same vein.

Short answer: Yes.

Slightly longer answer: Moreso.
 
Awesome about the Titan Poster thing. I'll hunt that down. Also, It's been a good two-three years since I've seen a Deep Space Nine episode, so I guess I've forgotten some of the more ill-doing Bajorns have fallen out of my memory. Perhaps I also have a pro-Bajoran bias? : X
 
Steve, you're making me want to check out 'The Final Reflection' and the Rihannsu books now... do they have a similar power to this one? Cause this was easily the most emotionally powerful Star Trek book I've ever read, and I'd definitely like to check out works in the same vein.

In the '80s, if you wanted bold Trek storytelling with some intelligent and inventive worldbuilding, those were the books you went for.
 
Thanks to everyone for your comments on DotV; I'm really pleased to see people are enjoying it.

People may well be talking about the Terok Nor books twenty years from now the way they talk about The Final Reflection and the Rihannsu books.

That's some esteemed company to be in; thank you!
 
I wasn't looking forward to this book either. I always found the Bajorans and their spirituality kind of boring and a 500 pages-book about them seemed like quite a challenge. Nevertheless I bought it, started to read and kept reading. Turned out to be the best Trek novel I've read since TAotI. It even made me want to start rewatching DS9. Hopefully the two other books are in the same league.
 
Like others have said, I was not looking forward to reading about DS9's past--even though I loved the show. Instead of reading about the history of Bajor and the occupation, I wanted a follow up to the events of Warpath. But I was wrong. Granted, I still look forward to Fearful Symmetry but Day of the Vipers was so good I can't wait for the next books. As I've told other Trek friends, this was one of the best Trek novels I've ever read. It's like no other Trek novel I've read in a very long time! It has reinforced for me the depth and breadth of the Trek universe. There is so much room to play in here, folks! So many different stories to tell, different settings to explore. This book, along with The Buried Age, The Art of the Impossible, Serpents Among the Ruins, the Crucible trilogy, and Vanguard stands as a testament to the moving power of literature, whether it has Star Trek in the title or not.
 
I'm not done with the book yet and will write more coherent thoughts later but I just wanted to say the star wars reference at the bottom of p 388 had me laughing my ass off. Genius.
 
Silly little question... how do you guys plan to shelve this novel? It seems the recent Lost Era novels haven't really been labeled as much of a miniseries as the originals were (which I don't own anyway) so I had filed The Buried Age under TNG and currently have this novel under DS9, however, my OCD-side is nagging at me because it isn't technically labeled as DS9... I've been tending to follow the organization listed in Voyages of Imagination and extrapolating from its format but I'm not sure whether I should consider "Terok Nor" a new miniseries or not. I know, I know... I can file them in whatever order I so desire, but I've just been curious...
 
I'm not done with the book yet and will write more coherent thoughts later but I just wanted to say the star wars reference at the bottom of p 388 had me laughing my ass off. Genius.

I am a slave to my geek nature, I admit it. That's not the only in-joke in the book, either...
 
Silly little question... how do you guys plan to shelve this novel? It seems the recent Lost Era novels haven't really been labeled as much of a miniseries as the originals were (which I don't own anyway) so I had filed The Buried Age under TNG and currently have this novel under DS9, however, my OCD-side is nagging at me because it isn't technically labeled as DS9... I've been tending to follow the organization listed in Voyages of Imagination and extrapolating from its format but I'm not sure whether I should consider "Terok Nor" a new miniseries or not. I know, I know... I can file them in whatever order I so desire, but I've just been curious...
I go in chronological order, so I have it with the other Lost Era books.
 
I did very much enjoy this book, and was quite happy when I found that Book 1 alone was 500 pages. I can't believe that I have to wait another 2 weeks to get my next fix!

My only nit was how many familiar faces we saw... I understand the Cardassians can be pretty long-lived, but still.... And seeing familiar Bajorans who were already older & highly-placed 60 years ago... it wasn't quite what I had expected. Other than that, very pleased.

^^I've placed it with my other The Lost Era novels, in front of Stargazer, and The Buried Age then leads into TNG.
 
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