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What's the worst non-canon decision in the history of Trek?

'worst' in-universe non-canon decision I'll take a stab at. I remember when Vanguard ended I asked David Mack if Starfleet made the right call constructing the station and even being involved in the Taurus Reach. I won't put spoilers as to why I asked but Mr. Mack gave a great response saying it certainly was a nuanced situation.

Similarly I'm not sure those involved in Project Full Circle (save the Admiral who certainly had his own motivations) chalk that up as a victory either. Might've just been better to stay home. (I know, that's not why they build ships...but the Dominion War had basically just happened.)
 
I don't believe there has really been anything that would qualify as a "worst" decision in Star Trek's writers den because all of them are motivated by really fascinating and cool attempts to tell stories that push the envelope in fiction. Indeed, the reason I became a writer was in large part because of all the authors here and what they've written.

If I could go with, "Things I wouldn't have done" then I have a few perhaps controversial examples. They're just my taste, though, and I hope no one takes offense. Take note: I also know a lot of these decisions were driven by out of universe factors.

1. Destroying the old Star Trek Expanded Universe: I know this was motivated by all of the changes to canon by the new series but I kind of regret it the same way Crisis on Infinite Earths blew up so many beloved alternate Earths. Fantastic series but depressing all the same.

2. The Andorian Cloning Plot Never Being Resolved: Weird how this is the one that I felt was the most annoying to me of left hanging things.

3. Killing off the Borg in Destiny: It was the perfect capstone to what would have made a fantastic set of episodes but I feel like it also was uncomfortably removing a pillar of Trekdom. Mind you. I was shocked that they chose to go with the Borg being gone in Picard too.

4. The Typhon Pact NOT Being Evil: This is something that will probably be the most controversial statement but it always stuck with me an author explaining that the point was not to create a villain faction but show an alternative to the Federation as well as expand on the factions involved. Which fair but they're mostly a bunch of authoritarian anti-democratic groups with imperialist ambitions.
 
2. The Andorian Cloning Plot Never Being Resolved: Weird how this is the one that I felt was the most annoying to me of left hanging things.
IIRC, the Andorian cloning plot is mentioned as having been resolved by the Federation president in one of the last novels, perhaps even in the Coda series.
 
Captain Ezri Dax is a highlight of the litverse for me. Total badass.

I felt it was more like Jadzia's arc than Ezri. I like Ezri the super-counselor over her becoming a big officer type. After all, each of the Daxes has wildly different life paths.

Mind you, that's a delicate needle to thread.

How do you show character development in a format so closely tied to the characters in the show?
 
As usual, you missed the point. The point of objection was your statement, presented as if it were objective fact, that:

This is a major misrepresentation of our intentions and our actions. We did not disregard those things, we addressed them in our text. THIS is what I'm objecting to — your impugning of our motives and intentions.

Ouch, dicey issue...

It was a very well done trilogy. It was, pretty bleak... however.

And part of me wishes the ending had been maybe a little more open ended, with some possibility of partial restoration... still, a torch evidently had to be passed.

Time travel rules meantime are constantly being revised based on the writers and producers and executive teams involved. Days of Future Past and Endgame both somehow exist in the greater Marvel filmic multiverse, meantime - but both present pretty contradictory time travel models. The difference being maybe that Wolverine literally 'held two timelines in his head', and so was some sort of arguable bridge of the two streams...

Other such similar conventions or caveats might exist in the case of Coda, I guess - or concerning the degree to which information is overwritten, observed, truncated, merged or eroded.

No need to throw fists about it, I guess I mean. And goodness knows how this works in relation to holographic and holonomic data and universe models either (with information not 'retrievable' in the same original way, implicitly)

Kind of grew into a major ontological debate, when one gets deeper into it. Paired with a very emotional and fan invested subtext too.
 
Time travel rules meantime are constantly being revised based on the writers and producers and executive teams involved. Days of Future Past and Endgame both somehow exist in the greater Marvel filmic multiverse, meantime - but both present pretty contradictory time travel models. The difference being maybe that Wolverine literally 'held two timelines in his head', and so was some sort of arguable bridge of the two streams...
Hell the MCU contradicts itself.

While he's only going back in time one minute, Doctor Strange's whole plan rests on time travel save scumming until Dormammu rage quits.
 
4. The Typhon Pact NOT Being Evil: This is something that will probably be the most controversial statement but it always stuck with me an author explaining that the point was not to create a villain faction but show an alternative to the Federation as well as expand on the factions involved. Which fair but they're mostly a bunch of authoritarian anti-democratic groups with imperialist ambitions.

The big problem there is that at least part of the motivation the Pact even assembled was due to them basically being opposed to the Federation, rather than inherently coming together for mutual aid. The Tholians in particular were there for the sake of spite. It's one thing to come together to help out others, or even because you need the assistance. But, as was once said in a different franchise, to be united by hatred is a... fragile alliance, at best.

That being said, I do agree that I'd have sooner seen something exploring them in a position of partnership with the Federation. It's just that the Pact never really got through all of the growing pains of its formation, with the various factions of the Pact jockeying for power and trying to figure out who among them were going to 'lead' the Pact and their schemes tripping themselves up. That led to more focus on political intrigue in opposition to the Federation, rather than the Pact strengthening itself into something beyond its attitude toward them.

It'd have been interesting to see if the Romulan supernova could have made a difference in the Pact's attitudes and actions, if now that they had one of their own in need, if they could have truly come together to help the Romulans, or if they'd have broken apart now that they were actually being tested as a coalition in a matter outside of their antagonism against the Federation. Alas, a story we're not going to get.
 
The big problem there is that at least part of the motivation the Pact even assembled was due to them basically being opposed to the Federation, rather than inherently coming together for mutual aid. The Tholians in particular were there for the sake of spite. It's one thing to come together to help out others, or even because you need the assistance. But, as was once said in a different franchise, to be united by hatred is a... fragile alliance, at best.

That being said, I do agree that I'd have sooner seen something exploring them in a position of partnership with the Federation. It's just that the Pact never really got through all of the growing pains of its formation, with the various factions of the Pact jockeying for power and trying to figure out who among them were going to 'lead' the Pact and their schemes tripping themselves up. That led to more focus on political intrigue in opposition to the Federation, rather than the Pact strengthening itself into something beyond its attitude toward them.

It'd have been interesting to see if the Romulan supernova could have made a difference in the Pact's attitudes and actions, if now that they had one of their own in need, if they could have truly come together to help the Romulans, or if they'd have broken apart now that they were actually being tested as a coalition in a matter outside of their antagonism against the Federation. Alas, a story we're not going to get.

It's a much lessened version of the problem I had with Visions of the Future where the New Republic makes peace with the Empire. Which is to say that it's something I support in 90% of fiction that the heroes should be merciful and make peace with enemies then totally destroy their governments. It's better to cease a conflict and work to reform than crush a group completely.

But the Empire is based on the Nazis...

So, uh, yeah.
 
It'd have been interesting to see if the Romulan supernova could have made a difference in the Pact's attitudes and actions, if now that they had one of their own in need, if they could have truly come together to help the Romulans, or if they'd have broken apart now that they were actually being tested as a coalition in a matter outside of their antagonism against the Federation. Alas, a story we're not going to get.

Yeah, the Supernova was something I was looking forward to being handled for years before Coda happened. Props to Doctor McCormack for doing the fantastic THE LAST BEST HOPE novel that I wish had been the pilot for the Picard series (because I have Q's powers in my imagination).

But I admit the movie version is so silly that it would have probably been two chapters of trying to explain why Spock can outrun a shockwave that will consume the galaxy or suck up the blast of the Supernova given its traveling at Lightspeed and likely to end at the end of the system.

Still, I can't imagine that KRAD and Christopher haven't had to make sense of worse.
 
Peter David's (RIP) depression and divorce affected a lot of his work at the time. Everything became dark in Star Trek, the Hulk, and more.

I don't think the timing lines up for that. The time-jump era of NF began in 2004, his divorce was in 1998, and he remarried in 2001. If his unhappiness had showed up in his Trek work, it'd be in the first several NF novels, not the last ones.

IIRC, the Andorian cloning plot is mentioned as having been resolved by the Federation president in one of the last novels, perhaps even in the Coda series.

"Mentioned" is putting it strongly. There's one line that the president is away from her office on Earth because she had to go to Andoria to see about a "cloning scandal."
 
1. Destroying the old Star Trek Expanded Universe: I know this was motivated by all of the changes to canon by the new series but I kind of regret it the same way Crisis on Infinite Earths blew up so many beloved alternate Earths. Fantastic series but depressing all the same.

I wish people wouldn't co-opt Star Wars's "Expanded Universe" label for Trek. It implies that the two tie-in continuities worked the same way, which is grossly misleading. In the Star Wars EU, all tie-ins across prose, comics, and games were treated as a single unified continuity, even trying to mash in older stuff like the early Marvel comics that was no longer consistent with a lot of stuff in the movies. In Star Trek, there was never a single overarching continuity. The Novelverse was just one of multiple independent continuities. There were other novels such as the Shatnerverse that weren't part of it, there were separate game continuities like Star Trek Online, and there were comics set in various continuities, with a few Wildstorm and IDW comics set in the Novelverse (or retroactively absorbed into it) but most of them in separate continuities.

In short, continuity was mandatory in the Star Wars EU (and in the new continuity that replaced it) but has always been optional in Trek tie-ins. I think it's easier to accept the Novelverse coming to an end if you remember that it was never the only tie-in continuity, just one of various options.


3. Killing off the Borg in Destiny: It was the perfect capstone to what would have made a fantastic set of episodes but I feel like it also was uncomfortably removing a pillar of Trekdom. Mind you. I was shocked that they chose to go with the Borg being gone in Picard too.

That's because there's not that much you can do with the Borg, and doing too much cheapens them, as Voyager audiences came to feel.


4. The Typhon Pact NOT Being Evil: This is something that will probably be the most controversial statement but it always stuck with me an author explaining that the point was not to create a villain faction but show an alternative to the Federation as well as expand on the factions involved. Which fair but they're mostly a bunch of authoritarian anti-democratic groups with imperialist ambitions.

But that's the point. The intent was to draw an analogy with the formation of the Federation. Look at Enterprise, where Vulcan and Andoria were imperialist military states at war with each other and the Tellarites didn't seem much better. None of them really looked that much like "good guys" at the time, but the story was about how they grew into something better. The intent of Typhon Pact was to explore how a loose alliance of self-serving governments came together and whether they would fall to their baser instincts or recognize the benefits of cooperation and evolve into a better society, as the Federation founders did.

And really, if you pay attention, the main thrust of the Typhon Pact novels is not about the Pact vs. the Federation, but about the jockeying for power between rival factions within the Pact. Or even within single Pact members, like the internal conflict between the two Romulan states or between the theocrats and reformers among the Kinshaya. The story wasn't about evil black-hatted villains menacing our clean-cut heroes, it was about exploring the turbulent sociopolitical process of a nascent alliance among powers who were not naturally inclined toward cooperation.


Time travel rules meantime are constantly being revised based on the writers and producers and executive teams involved. Days of Future Past and Endgame both somehow exist in the greater Marvel filmic multiverse, meantime - but both present pretty contradictory time travel models. The difference being maybe that Wolverine literally 'held two timelines in his head', and so was some sort of arguable bridge of the two streams...

Oh, good point, I hadn't thought of that. See, this is why I don't like it when different SF/fantasy universes that were written with different rules and worldbuilding are mashed together as a "multiverse." Physics isn't multiple-choice. If there is a multiverse, then the same laws would apply in every timeline.


Yeah, the Supernova was something I was looking forward to being handled for years before Coda happened. Props to Doctor McCormack for doing the fantastic THE LAST BEST HOPE novel that I wish had been the pilot for the Picard series (because I have Q's powers in my imagination).

But I admit the movie version is so silly that it would have probably been two chapters of trying to explain why Spock can outrun a shockwave that will consume the galaxy or suck up the blast of the Supernova given its traveling at Lightspeed and likely to end at the end of the system.

Still, I can't imagine that KRAD and Christopher haven't had to make sense of worse.

I actually thought Picard's reinterpretation of the supernova was much better than the handwave I would've offered in the books given the chance. I would've been stuck with the movie's implication that the supernova happened without warning in a different star system and somehow propagated FTL, reaching Romulus faster than predicted. But since PIC was canon rather than a tie-in, its creators were freer to take license with the details. Their retcon that it happened to Romulus's own star and that there were years of advance warning made so much more sense than what the movie implied. (Aside from the fact that habitable stars don't go supernova -- though they did several times in TOS -- and that there'd realistically be millennia of advance warning.)

The one thing that doesn't make sense is why Spock would still have tried releasing the Red Matter after the supernova already blew, but maybe that's another thing the movie was misleading about and the supernova actually happened just after he released it but before it activated. (Since we got the story through a mind meld in which the images and voice were dreamlike and surreal, it could be that the account was less than strictly accurate.)
 
I don't think the timing lines up for that. The time-jump era of NF began in 2004, his divorce was in 1998, and he remarried in 2001. If his unhappiness had showed up in his Trek work, it'd be in the first several NF novels, not the last ones.

My bad. Thanks for the correction.
 
I wish people wouldn't co-opt Star Wars's "Expanded Universe" label for Trek. It implies that the two tie-in continuities worked the same way, which is grossly misleading. In the Star Wars EU, all tie-ins across prose, comics, and games were treated as a single unified continuity, even trying to mash in older stuff like the early Marvel comics that was no longer consistent with a lot of stuff in the movies. In Star Trek, there was never a single overarching continuity. The Novelverse was just one of multiple independent continuities. There were other novels such as the Shatnerverse that weren't part of it, there were separate game continuities like Star Trek Online, and there were comics set in various continuities, with a few Wildstorm and IDW comics set in the Novelverse (or retroactively absorbed into it) but most of them in separate continuities.

In short, continuity was mandatory in the Star Wars EU (and in the new continuity that replaced it) but has always been optional in Trek tie-ins. I think it's easier to accept the Novelverse coming to an end if you remember that it was never the only tie-in continuity, just one of various options.

This is very true but I also loved that authors went out of their way to try to reverse course on "every book is singular" under certain editors and try to wrap together as much of the setting as possible. Even if there were glaring holes and many, many contradictions. I understand this was a very recent development in the fandom, relatively speaking, but I suppose my coming into it in the early 2000s really played a big role. I also, notably, came into it from Star Wars where I was obsessed with this sort of thing. Being a gamer also made me a lore junkie. As a 44 year old now, I'm far more accepting that my imaginary worlds are going to be rebooted and changed regularly thanks to D&D, Star Wars, and comics in general.

Canon is a privilege not a right.

But that's the point. The intent was to draw an analogy with the formation of the Federation. Look at Enterprise, where Vulcan and Andoria were imperialist military states at war with each other and the Tellarites didn't seem much better. None of them really looked that much like "good guys" at the time, but the story was about how they grew into something better. The intent of Typhon Pact was to explore how a loose alliance of self-serving governments came together and whether they would fall to their baser instincts or recognize the benefits of cooperation and evolve into a better society, as the Federation founders did.

And really, if you pay attention, the main thrust of the Typhon Pact novels is not about the Pact vs. the Federation, but about the jockeying for power between rival factions within the Pact. Or even within single Pact members, like the internal conflict between the two Romulan states or between the theocrats and reformers among the Kinshaya. The story wasn't about evil black-hatted villains menacing our clean-cut heroes, it was about exploring the turbulent sociopolitical process of a nascent alliance among powers who were not naturally inclined toward cooperation.

Oh, I absolutely get it and that was kind of where I was iffier with the premise. The Typhon Pact forming their Federation-like alliance against the Federation theoretically could lead to them becoming better more tolerant people but I was off-put by that thought. For a variety of reasons, I feel less inclined toward the natural flow of history toward betterment versus constant guarding against backsliding.

My iffiness comes from the fact that the Federation made peace with the Klingons after Khitomer but there was a tendency to act in fiction that they hadn't actually changed any from the aggressive imperialist conquerors they were during TOS. They were still a feudalist aristocracy, belligerant, and warlike with some implications they were holding many worlds still in bondage. I don't think those are the kind of people the Federation would befriend even if they would be peeing out of the tent instead of inside. With the Typhon Pact, the argument is they're making itself better and I wonder if it would have been more appropriate to make them worse (see the Cardassians joining the Dominion). Arguably less interesting politically as that may be.

If I'm making sense.

The one thing that doesn't make sense is why Spock would still have tried releasing the Red Matter after the supernova already blew, but maybe that's another thing the movie was misleading about and the supernova actually happened just after he released it but before it activated. (Since we got the story through a mind meld in which the images and voice were dreamlike and surreal, it could be that the account was less than strictly accurate.)

I THINK Star Trek Online's handwave was the fact that it was an Iconian weapon that would turn a sun into fuel for a subspace shockwave that would spread through the galaxy until the Iconians deemed it suitably lesser being free. Which is definitely a handwave that would have removed the best parts of Star Trek: Picard's global warming/climate change analog but at least gives an explanation of why Spock did it. Because subspace is the answer for everything that isn't dilithium or a Q did it.

:)

You could probably also blame whatever shenanigans with a healthy yellow star exploding (because Romulus having a red star like Krypton doesn't match what we've seen with the show but bigger retcons have been made ala Vulcan's moon) due to their singularity drives. Maybe whatever they use to create them includes strip mining their sun somehow because METAPHOR.
 
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This is very true but I also loved that authors went out of their way to try to reverse course on "every book is singular" under certain editors and try to wrap together as much of the setting as possible.

The point is that it's not a binary choice between zero continuity and total continuity. There were multiple Trek tie-in continuities that were consistent (ish) within themselves yet incompatible with one another. Just because there was a widespread novel continuity for 20 years doesn't mean it was the only continuity. It was just one of the most prominent options, alongside STO, the Shatnerverse, IDW's various continuities and standalones, etc.



Canon is a privilege not a right.

It's neither. It's simply a descriptive label for a comprehensive body of works sharing some common defining attribute. And it has no applicability to tie-in literature, which is usually apocrypha.


Oh, I absolutely get it and that was kind of where I was iffier with the premise. The Typhon Pact forming their Federation-like alliance against the Federation theoretically could lead to them becoming better more tolerant people but I was off-put by that thought. For a variety of reasons, I feel less inclined toward the natural flow of history toward betterment versus constant guarding against backsliding.

Even saying it was "against the Federation" is missing the point. The point wasn't to oppose the Federation, it was to be independent of the Federation and of superpowers in general. These were a group of smaller powers who got tired of being pushed around by the handful of superpowers like the UFP and Klingons (specifically when President Bacco bullied them into allying against the Borg Invasion), and so they decided to form their own independent bloc that would be strong enough to resist superpower pressure and live their own lives the way they wanted. Their purpose wasn't defined by the Federation -- the whole point was to create a world where their future didn't have to be defined by the Federation, or the Klingons, or anyone but themselves and the allies they voluntarily chose.

Although, of course, there were differing factions who had differing agendas, so a couple of them, like the Breen and Tzenkethi IIRC, did attempt to pursue espionage or hostility against the Federation. But other states, like the Gorn, just wanted the freedom to focus on bettering their own lives without having to turn to the Federation for help or be pressured by its diplomatic and military power. And then you had the Romulans, who were actually pretty friendly toward the UFP under Praetor Kamemor, although the rival Romulan faction was more hostile.


My iffiness comes from the fact that the Federation made peace with the Klingons after Khitomer but there was a tendency to act in fiction that they hadn't actually changed any from the aggressive imperialist conquerors they were during TOS. They were still a feudalist aristocracy, belligerant, and warlike with some implications they were holding many worlds still in bondage.

That was a problem introduced by the shows' writers. I mean, TNG: "Heart of Glory" established that the Klingons who still clung to the old warrior ways were considered outcasts and criminals by the Empire, and pretty strongly implied that the Klingons were actually UFP members. But then Ron Moore and other writers came along and played up the whole "samurai Viking" approach to the Klingons and treated them as basically still warriors and conquerors, making it incongruous that the Federation was allied with them.

But I don't see how that has any relevance to a discussion of the books, since it was outside the control of the books' authors and editors.



With the Typhon Pact, the argument is they're making itself better and I wonder if it would have been more appropriate to make them worse (see the Cardassians joining the Dominion). Arguably less interesting politically as that may be.

If I'm making sense.

If it's less interesting, why would we want to do it? Black-hat bad guys aren't very interesting. Nuanced, multilayered antagonists have much richer story potential.

Keep in mind that Star Trek, again, should not be presumed to work like Star Wars. It's not a space opera about the battle between good and evil. It's a series about exploring new worlds and new civilizations. When Marco Palmieri and Keith DeCandido came up with the Typhon Pact, their motivation was to do something similar to the Worlds of Deep Space Nine novel series that had done spotlight stories on alien races like the Cardassians, Ferengi, Andorians, and Trill. The goal was not to create a new villain, the goal was to pick out some underdeveloped background species like the Breen, Tzenkethi, and Gorn and tell stories delving into their cultures, adding new depth and substance to them. The Pact concept was just a loose frame for a series of explorations of the individual cultures. Although that became less the case in the later books, which were more of a continuous serial.
 
I don't think the timing lines up for that. The time-jump era of NF began in 2004, his divorce was in 1998, and he remarried in 2001. If his unhappiness had showed up in his Trek work, it'd be in the first several NF novels, not the last ones.
The book of Peter's that read to me like he was mad at life was 2007's Before Dishonor. But I didn't know Peter well enough to know what might have been going on in his life at that time that led to, well, that.
 
Mind you. I was shocked that they chose to go with the Borg being gone in Picard too.
I do find that very interesting, in terms of how people interpret Endgame. I saw the pathogen and destruction of the unicomplex as a significant, possibly mortal blow to the Collective. Sure, they'd lost the Queen before, but this was something disrupting the entire Collective, much like what the Federation originally planned in I, Borg, but more sudden and violent. (Perhaps akin to the Daleks' 'final end' in Doctor Who's Evil of the Daleks- perhaps not the end of them for good, but the last we'd be seeing of them for a long time.

Yet, I was surprised to find that a number of people disagreed, and saw it only as a minor victory over a small portion of the Collective. And the Trek authors seemed to agree, going with that direction on into the Destiny trilogy (indeed, with two Borg trilogies back-to-back then a follow-up Voyager ongoing series based on mistrust that they were really gone, things seemed Borg-heavier than ever!)

So then, I was surprised again when Picard/Prodigy seemed to disagree with my approach and interpret Endgame the way I originally had, which I had come to think of as the 'minority' view. (The irony being that we ended up Borg-heavier than ever there, too, since each season chose to deal with them in a different way).
 
It's a much lessened version of the problem I had with Visions of the Future where the New Republic makes peace with the Empire. Which is to say that it's something I support in 90% of fiction that the heroes should be merciful and make peace with enemies then totally destroy their governments. It's better to cease a conflict and work to reform than crush a group completely.

But the Empire is based on the Nazis...

So, uh, yeah.
To be fair, I always got the sense that Paelleon's Imperial Remnant was supposed to be a somewhat-reformed version of the Empire, run under different principle- hence the more hardliner faction that was opposing him and the peace initiative.

So maybe it was more like... ex-Nazi scientists coming to work for the U.S., at that point. :-)
 
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