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Spoilers Marvel's Ironheart

A character that we've seen a couple of times so far on billboards and one television clip is the CEO of "Artworks" who is quoted as saying, "These are simply petty thieves trying to make a buck using cheap tricks. They will be caught and brought to justice swiftly". It was after seeing this quote on television that Parker decided to do the job on Heirlum despite John's warnings.

The television clip simply identifies this person as "CEO Artworks", but one of the billboards that we saw him on identifies him as...

... Arthur Robbins, father of Parker Robbins, AKA the Hood.

The plot thickens and his motivations start to come to light. Thank you, New Rockstars, for your deep dive.
 
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Turtletrekker said:
A character that we've seen a couple of times so far on billboards and one television clip is the CEO of "Artworks" who is quoted as saying, "These are simply petty thieves trying to make a buck using cheap tricks. They will be caught and brought to justice swiftly". It was after seeing this quote on television, that Parker decided to do the job on Heirlum despite John's warnings.

The television clip simply identifies this person as "CEO Artworks", but one of the billboards that we saw him on identifies him as...

... Arthur Robbins, father of Parker Robbins, AKA the Hood.

The plot thickens and his motivations start to come to light. Thank you New Rockstars for your deep dive.
Click to expand...

This just makes the decision to cast Anthony Ramos even stranger, TBH. Supposedly they came up with a whole backstory that he's from Humboldt Park, since it's the one place in Chicago you can find Puerto Ricans in large numbers. But I don't see how he can simultaneously be a working class Puerto Rican kid and
the child of a billionaire. Unless he's a love child or something, I guess. But in that case, why would he share the last name?
 
eschaton said:
This just makes the decision to cast Anthony Ramos even stranger, TBH. Supposedly they came up with a whole backstory that he's from Humboldt Park, since it's the one place in Chicago you can find Puerto Ricans in large numbers. But I don't see how he can simultaneously be a working class Puerto Rican kid and
the child of a billionaire. Unless he's a love child or something, I guess. But in that case, why would he share the last name?
Click to expand...
Tune in next week!
 
First 3 episodes were decent overall, with the third being by far the best. It has that feel of being one long story sliced up into six parts rather than being properly episodic, which makes sense as it was made back before Marvel decided to make their tv shows like they're tv shows. The MIT stuff seemed rushed (why bring back Jim Rash and not give him anything comedic to do?) and I'm not sure why Riri can't patent one of her great inventions and make money that way? Seems like something Shuri could help her get done.

I liked Riri more here than in Wakanda Forever where she just felt like a plot device, but Natalie was definitely my favourite character. The part where she was like stuck in a Window on a monitor and learning how to text and stuff was really fun. The heist crew were pretty meh: there were too many of them, for one thing (though I guess 2 are dead now! And I agree it's weird killing Eric Andre off-screen after giving him barely anything!) so it was hard to remember their names or one character trait. I thought John's actor was way more menacing than the guy playing The Hood though I suppose Hood's actor could step up in the last 3 episodes now he's getting more demon-influenced. The tunnel heist was pretty silly - the security guards didn't have guns? Except the one at end? The greenhouse stuff was more fun.

I liked Ezekiel but he is so far very disconnected from the rest of the show.

So it's not bad, pretty good a lot of the time, and obviously doesn't deserve review bombing (hot take: nothing does!) but I can't see it finishing near the top of my list of Marvel tv shows.
 
So I finished all 3 episodes last night, and I really don't get the complaints. I mean really, if we can handle all the "Kids from the wrong side of the tracks" movies from the 80s and 90s I don't see why folks can't handle this.

And the complaints about why Riri turned to a crime gang over a regular job, that was explained well too.

I loved Alden's surprise character too
 
I enjoyed the first three eps more than I thought I would. Not a fan of the Hood at all, but I'm digging all the other characters/actors. Initially the AI thread didn't interest me, but I like Nat just as much as I like Jarvis. I had no idea Han Solo was in this and the surprise of his appearance, along with his true identity, is awesome. I loved how Riri was so in your face reminding us who Stain is :lol:. I'll be out of town when the rest of the episodes are released, and hope my hotel has a Disney+ sub. Considering I was very meh on this release, that's awesome :D
 
After seeing the first three episodes, I'm neutral about it. It's not the disaster some were proclaiming it to be even before its debut, but it's also not earth shattering either. The third episode is the best of the lot so far.

I'm liking Riri more here than in Wakanda Forever. She has a lot more to do and to play with. Natalie was grating at first but grew on me by the third episode. The Hood's well hood looks silly, and I wish they had given him a hoodie or something, make it 21st century.

Looking over some of the discourse here, I don't find Ironheart particularly rooted in the Black American experience outside of a surface level, Hollywoodized, kind of pop culture quiz kind of way, and some might even say stereotypical (with the inner city setting, the main character involved in crime, a drive by shooting, the sassy AI, and so forth).

I'm speaking from a singular Black American perspective here, but I found aspects of Luke Cage, Black Lightning, the MANTIS pilot, and maybe even some parts (or scenes) in Batwoman more topical and pointed. Netflix's Supacell, which follows several Black Londoners, comes across to this outsider as a series that feels more rooted in its community than I get with Ironheart so far.
 
I was ambivalent after the first episode but by 3 I was very invested.

Riri may be a great engineer but she has a lot to learn about criminality and forensics. She's left a trail of DNA and eye witnesses that any fool could follow.
 
DarKush said:
Looking over some of the discourse here, I don't find Ironheart particularly rooted in the Black American experience outside of a surface level, Hollywoodized, kind of pop culture quiz kind of way, and some might even say stereotypical (with the inner city setting, the main character involved in crime, a drive by shooting, the sassy AI, and so forth).
Click to expand...

Well, there it is: as you pointed out, if Ironheart's take on the Black American experience (with the involvement of head writer Chinaka Hodge) is on that hollow, Hollywood level, it does not sound appealing, but possibly ill-informed or condescending, much like the Javicia Leslie era of Batwoman, where the show--despite having a Black writer involved--delivered social commentary that was as Hollywood POV-ized and assumptive as anything one would hear at certain political conventions (when its time to seek votes from a certain demographic by pretending to fully understand and speak for them).

I'm speaking from a singular Black American perspective here, but I found aspects of Luke Cage, Black Lightning, the MANTIS pilot, and maybe even some parts (or scenes) in Batwoman more topical and pointed.
Click to expand...

Certainly, Marvel Studios' best effort in that regard were the Wilson / Bradley conversations about Wilson's place as a Captain America and the reason why he had a historical legacy tied to the notion of that kind of hero. Then again, Malcolm Spellman was the driving crreative force behind The Falcon and the Winter Soldier, so any racially authentic, honest story points and dialogue were not going to be stereotypical and/or condescending.

Netflix's Supacell, which follows several Black Londoners, comes across to this outsider as a series that feels more rooted in its community than I get with Ironheart so far.
Click to expand...

Interesting contrast, which suggests that many American entertainment productions dealing with Black characters/life even this far into the 21st century are not equipped to handle the material with respect and understanding.
 
TREK_GOD_1 said:
Well, there it is: as you pointed out, if Ironheart's take on the Black American experience (with the involvement of head writer Chinaka Hodge) is on that hollow, Hollywood level, it does not sound appealing, but possibly ill-informed or condescending, much like the Javicia Leslie era of Batwoman, where the show--despite having a Black writer involved--delivered social commentary that was as Hollywood POV-ized and assumptive as anything one would hear at certain political conventions (when its time to seek votes from a certain demographic by pretending to fully understand and speak for them).



Certainly, Marvel Studios' best effort in that regard were the Wilson / Bradley conversations about Wilson's place as a Captain America and the reason why he had a historical legacy tied to the notion of that kind of hero. Then again, Malcolm Spellman was the driving crreative force behind The Falcon and the Winter Soldier, so any racially authentic, honest story points and dialogue were not going to be stereotypical and/or condescending.



Interesting contrast, which suggests that many American entertainment productions dealing with Black characters/life even this far into the 21st century are not equipped to handle the material with respect and understanding.
Click to expand...
I forgot about Falcon/Winter Soldier, but I also would put them in the category of being more pointed in discussing aspects of the Black experience than Ironheart thus far (particularly in the Bradley/Wilson relationship as you mentioned). Falcon/Winter Soldier did veer on the edge of seeing Black people through a typical Hollywood lens though (Wilson’s money troubles and his bossy single-mother sister are what come to mind), but this was relatively mild. Both Falcon and Ironheart depict lower middle-class entrepreneurial Black families which I think is cool because we don’t see much of that, though it would be nicer to see business more in the forefront and not in the background.

My disappointment with Falcon/Winter Soldier and MCU Wilson overall is the tendency to bend toward seeking external validation. Bradley weeping about a statue in the back of a museum didn’t feel organic at all, but it was like Disney wanted a happy ending. Also, Wilson accepting Captain America’s mantle was sold as empowering but didn’t feel that way to me. I would’ve rather Wilson rejected the offer and just been Falcon. Falcon: Brave New World might have fared better at the box office (in part because it wouldn’t have gotten a bigger budget where it had to be a big blockbuster to be profitable to begin with).

What impressed me most about Supacell was how well-developed the characters were across the board. While the series delved into some dubiously stereotypical tropes more than once, it provided a variety of characters and most got backstories or something more that humanized them, and I appreciated that.
 
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DarKush said:
Falcon/Winter Soldier did veer on the edge of seeing Black people through a typical Hollywood lens though (Wilson’s money troubles and his bossy single-mother sister are what come to mind), but this was relatively mild.
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"I know you, you're an Avenger! You're great! By the way you can't have this loan because you're black." :wtf:

Not exactly subtle.
 
Well, after more than a dozen shows, the inevitable finally happened. It was finally lupus. I mean Mephisto. But more on that later. Let's focus on the main driving force of the season before That Ending.

One of the parts I loved the most about the first three episodes was how the show handled Riri's mental health and the back half of the season continued that strong work. This stood out the most when Riri experienced her panic attack in midflight and later on when she finally admitted to her mother she had a problem and needed help. Riri's genuine thanks to her crew after they assisted with building her new suit further reinforced the healthy nature of accepting help when one is struggling.

I also loved how magic was utilized in this show and of course Cree Summers portrays a sorcerer (or at least began training as one before focusing on motherhood), but as I much love the idea of Summers as a sorcerer, I loved Zelma even more. I felt her glee at showing off her magic and I greatly enjoyed her rapport with Riri while researching the Hood's origins and eventually working on a plan to battle him. I was a bit bummed out by the post-credits scene that showed her naïveté and her love for magic being used against her, but hopefully if Ironheart gets a second season, we'll see more of her. Or, alternatively, she'll appear wherever Jen Kale, Billy Kaplan, and Agatha Harkness reconvene on our screens.

However, one thing that did take me out of the show was the White Castle fight. I get that this is a superhero show and a degree of implausible will occur, but it was damn hard to believe Jeri, Roz, and Clown could all take violent blows from large metal cylinders without any serious injuries and even harder to believe Slug could walk away from the truck being flipped. Again, I get it, comic book physics and all of that but it was still a bit too much to look past, especially considering the emphasis on the sheer violence of those blows.

It does occur to me that the manner of Mephisto's return is precisely how in the role people didn't want him in WandaVision, i.e. a last-act villain who suddenly takes the stage in lieu of the season-long villain who is more or less easily disposed off. I definitely agree that I'm glad that didn't happen in WandaVision (and Agatha All Along and any other place we had previously speculated his triumphant appearance) but I will say that I'm not that bothered by it happening here. Not because of the perceived weakness of The Hood as a villain, but rather the season has actually teased a greater force hiding in the shadows, haunting Parker's livelihood. Perhaps the show should've introduced Mephisto's deal with Parker in episode five instead of six to ease in the transition of the climax, but I think it still works overall.

As for the controversial ending regarding Riri's decision, I'm torn on it. The show did a good job of setting up Riri's temptation by demonstrating how much Natalie meant to Riri, how Natalie's violent death in front of Riri's eyes effected her, how Riri struggled to overcome that trauma, and how she coped with the idea of an AI looking and acting just like Natalie existing in that space of trauma...and then ultimately losing that AI just as Riri made peace with AI Natalie's existence. On the other hand, Riri decision to take the deal could potentially send a bad message regarding mental health by saying that Riri went through all of those steps and still "needed" to make a literal deal with the devil to "heal" herself.

That being said, I won't be so adverse with this turn of events as long as the show gets a second season, is able to follow through with Riri's deal, and directly shows why that deal was always a bad idea and it's always better to treat your mental health in a different manner. Unfortunately, I fear that we might not get that second season between the review bombing from racist, sexist assholes, genuine reviews with genuine criticisms, and Disney's disappointing decision to release the season in two three-episode chunks. Fingers crossed.
 
I fast forwarded through the last episode after reading a rather negative review just to see some scenes for myself.

While i like Cohen as Mephisto ( would have been maybe even better if they gave him just a slight reddish hue in his skin tone) overall the entire project is pure Old School Marvel, when they flooded the market with projects and always included some stepping stones that would lead into new projects.

Given how radically (for them) Marvel changed i have serious doubts any of these hooks will lead to anywhere.

I am no fan of Ironheart but it still saddens me to see a group of people putting in all the effort only to immediately be thrown into the bargain bin upon release, at least it feels like it for me.
 
I think that that's my biggest issue with how the story ended. I doubt we're ever going to get a proper follow-up, and if we do it'll be awkward and out of place like the Incredible Hulk follow-up in Brave New World.
 
I am enjoying how the usual suspects are ranting about that particular scene, ignoring all the other times in the comics that

Protagonists made deals with Mephisto, like the New Mutants or Sue Storm herself
 
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