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Why Did the DS9 Technical Manual Sell So Poorly?

Roddenberry's selfishness and close-mindedness lingers on even without the policy being enforced like a law.

If you created something that ultimately became very popular, you'd be miffed if other people came to your sandbox and changed it (supposedly to improve it?) in ways you never intended. Sure, you might even agree with some of their ideas, but if you had no power of veto, then you'd be constantly worried how others interpreted your creation based on the changed premises offered by others.

I don't see that makes Roddenberry selfish. Just human.
 
When Gene Roddenberry says that John Fords Klingons are not canon.

When Gene Roddenberry says that Diane Duanes Klingons are not canon.

He is effectively saying "the stuff you like has no place with us".

It is the same as someone saying "what you like is stupid".

O.K., why should I care what a long deceased one hit wonder tv writer/producer thought?
 
O.K., why should I care what a long deceased one hit wonder tv writer/producer thought?

No kidding. I read the DS9 relaunch novels with interest and enjoy what's being done there. There's no other DS9 shows, so nothing to contradict what's there; I don't even think about the canon status of these works.

Would the DS9 Technical Manual being splashed with holy water by the risen corpse of Gene Roddenberry have made it a better seller? Maybe with a fringe group, but I don't think most people would care...
 
Roddenberry's selfishness and close-mindedness lingers on even without the policy being enforced like a law.

If you created something that ultimately became very popular, you'd be miffed if other people came to your sandbox and changed it (supposedly to improve it?) in ways you never intended. Sure, you might even agree with some of their ideas, but if you had no power of veto, then you'd be constantly worried how others interpreted your creation based on the changed premises offered by others.

I don't see that makes Roddenberry selfish. Just human.

Besides, whatever hangups Roddenberry may have had, at the time he issued the memo he was the showrunner/executive producer (and still the creator) of the series, so he had every right to define its canon as he saw fit. We may disagree with the narrowness of his definition, but it was his to define. The key point to remember is simply that, once he died, that definition became the responsibility of others, and they did not remain bound by his definition.
 
Some of “canon” Trek is brilliant, some are stinkers. The same applies to media-tie-in work. The word “canon” is certainly not a trade mark for quality.

Nevertheless, it matters to me not to have media-tie-in that is fractionized too much. I don`t mind exceptions of the rule now and then but want to see overall story developments and character developments that follow at least a rough direction into the future. “Continuity” is certainly more important to me than “canon”.

I think the biggest danger all fiction faces is that some powers that be are determined to please as many people as possible, to cater to the lowest common denominator in the belief that keeping things simple and maybe emphasize the sex and violence aspect, is the recipe for getting people to watch and get the ratings. I am thinking of Andromeda and Crusade, the most obvious examples.

I am very glad that Star Trek in book form is resisting this tendency and I hope this continues. I am still very annoyed and frustrated at what the series Spider-Man just experienced. I haven`t touched that series since and there is less than a handful of Marvel comics left now I am still getting. This was a typical case of dumbing down, more I feel cheated because I feel like I have been “Dallas-ed”.

After this disaster (at least to me, it was a disaster) I am a bit nervous about what Destiny is going to do and the increased use of the Mirror Universe. I don`t think I have to worry about a dumbing down but nevertheless, there was a time when I loved DS9 and had more optimism for TNG Relaunch than I have today.
 
OK. I've got my own ideas on the answer, but I've got to ask the question anyway. Why do fans get hung up on canon even though it can stymie creativity?


I don't. My "personal continuity" incorporates some novels and excludes some canon material that contradict those novels. For example, Strangers From The Sky takes precedence over First Contact. And the "flexibility" doesn't bother me.

But I became a Trekkie in the mid-80s, when there was only the original series and four movies--and TV reruns were hard to catch and seeing the movies meant pestering my mom to rent the videos again--so most of my early exposure to Trek was in the form of books. Maybe that gives me an unusual perspective.



Marian
 
Hey, I started in the late 80's- "Best of Both Worlds" was my first episode. I was 9. Two years after that, I was reading the fiction. It doesn't make a damn bit of difference to me what's canon and what's not.
 
It doesn't make a damn bit of difference to me what's canon and what's not.
It shouldn't matter to anyone who isn't actually writing for the source material. In fact, it doesn't matter to anyone who isn't actually writing for the source material.

But then, I genuinely do not comprehend why people get their knickers in a twist over what's "real" in a fictional construct....
 
But then, I genuinely do not comprehend why people get their knickers in a twist over what's "real" in a fictional construct....

Well, someone else said something similar in another thread that touched on the dread "C" word: people want canon because they want it to count.

Not always a concern for me personally, but I can see where folks would want that in a ST book (episode, movie, whatever). If a viewer/reader is going to invest the time/energy/emotion into the work, it's a nice thing to have a reasonable expectation that the story will fit into the larger whole.

I might be off-base, but it makes sense to me.
 
Oh, I know people want that. It just baffles the hell out of me why it matters. Did you like the story? Okay then. It counts. Problem solved.
 
Not always a concern for me personally, but I can see where folks would want that in a ST book (episode, movie, whatever). If a viewer/reader is going to invest the time/energy/emotion into the work, it's a nice thing to have a reasonable expectation that the story will fit into the larger whole.

Into whose larger whole? The reader's, or some suit's in Hollywood?

If the people who spend weeks or months writing this stuff (along with the accompanying energy and emotion of which you speak) can do so without somebody in some studio office proclaiming it holy writ, you think the folks who might get a few hour's entertainment from the resulting work could be okay with it. This stuff is supposed to be fun, for crying out loud, for the writers as well as the readers.

Well, I have fun with it, anyway, and part of that fun is working to make sure that what I write does fit into and works with the larger whole, even if it's never acknowledged by a film maker or show runner. If someone else is so hung up on notions of "canon or not" that they can't enjoy this stuff for what is, that's really their issue, not mine.

Thankfully, there appear to be plenty of folks out there who seem to "get it." :)
 
Back to something closer to the topic at hand.

Why doesn't Pocket or someone try putting out a U.S.S. Titan Technical Manual?

You have an entire ship that little is known about. Pocket has a direct interest in seeing promotion of the book series.

And the U.S.S. Titan will never be featured in a future series or movie, so the problems of later contradiction are completely removed.

A technical manual or even a shorter technical guide would do a great deal to flesh out the ship in the Titan series and make it seem more "real" to fans.

It might even stimulate a renewed interest in non novel Trek products for Pocket.
 
Oh, no way. Remember what Keith said. The core fan audience alone can never buy enough copies to justify the expense of a nonfiction book with illustrations and so forth. And the audience for the Titan novels -- just one spinoff series out of the whole franchise -- would be tinier still. A TTN tech manual would be one hell of a niche product. No, the only way we'll get anything like that is if there are more foldouts done for later novels in the series.
 
Oh, I know people want that. It just baffles the hell out of me why it matters. Did you like the story? Okay then. It counts. Problem solved.

I think it's related to the "and it was all a dream" plot device, and how universally hated it is. On the face of it, that doesn't really make much sense, because it's not like the story is any less real than it already was once you find out it was a character's dream, but on the other hand, it feels less real. Like the audience has been jerked around, suspending their disbelief so they can care about imaginary people, and then finding out those characters were themselves just the fantasies of other imaginary people.
 
Christopher said:
Oh, no way. Remember what Keith said. The core fan audience alone can never buy enough copies to justify the expense of a nonfiction book with illustrations and so forth. And the audience for the Titan novels -- just one spinoff series out of the whole franchise -- would be tinier still. A TTN tech manual would be one hell of a niche product. No, the only way we'll get anything like that is if there are more foldouts done for later novels in the series.

With the caveat that I do not speak for Pocket (or anyone else, for that matter), I wonder if some kind of "tech" article might be feasible for Star Trek Magazine? Given its demonstrated support/showcasing of various Pocket projects, I wonder if a series of such features with more artwork/diagrams etc. of things like Vanguard, Titan, etc. might work?

Just spit-balling here.
 
^^Ooh, yeah, like the Fact Files articles that used to appear in the old ST magazine. That would be cool. And I for one would be happy to take a stab at writing some science/tech articles for the magazine.
 
I would love to read that. Especially if it became a regular thing to do book related in-world articles, like bios for some of the Lit characters or extra background on the races or events introduced in the books.
 
^^But there are so many franchises where audiences are accepting of multiple contradictory "realities." People accept that comic, film, and animated-series adaptations of Batman, Spider-Man, etc. are in different continuities. They may whine that the latest Batman series isn't a continuation of the Bruce Timm version, but they don't whine that the Timmverse contradicts the comics continuity. The existence of multiple incompatible versions of the same universe is accepted in many cases, so why is ST so different?
That's a question with many answers, and no single one is going to answer it completely.

Most fundamentally, is ST really that different in that regard? How many people really think "Kirk commanding the Excelsior" comics from between STIII and STIV "should" be in the same continuity as those movies, vs how many can accept them as their own little bubble of continuity? Even with novels, plenty of people consider the "Shatnerverse" to be BS's personal sandbox and don't sweat the differences between it and other novels. And since it was known up front that the "Crucible" books wouldn't be "tied down" by other novels, was there that much grousing about them?


Even with those caveats though, I'll agree that "excessive canonism" is at least more visible within Trekdom, whether or not it's actually more prevalent. I think part of the differences between ST and franchises like Batman or Spiderman is that those continuities follow shifts in the medium (comic to movie or animation) or major shifts in style (i.e., the various Timmverse series vs. "Men in Bats"(1) or "Teen Titans Go"). And while there may be allusions to events of another continuity, they don't directly reference events from another medium. Just about every licensed Trek work references the events of the series or movies, creating some form of continuity.

Another factor in the greater visibility of "canon nazis" within Trekdom is a matter of timing and opportunity. In the Beginning, Trek was the biggest game in town for this sort of thing. Space:1999 didn't catch on as much, the original Galactica didn't last long enough, etc. There weren't any readily-visible counterexamples, so it was up to Trek to blunder around and make the mistakes that later franchises tried to avoid (e.g., Lucasfilm saying "it's all 'official'" even if they steamroller anything that gets in their way later (say hello, Grampa Lumpy) vs. the oft-noted different path taken with Trek regarding licensed works). Arguably, making that sharp distinction between "canon" and "non-canon" only made the problem worse -- those with the kind of personality that need that "offical stamp of approval" were handed a cudgel to use in their little turf wars.

These days, after two or three decades of Crises of Infinite Earths, remakes, reboots, "re-imaginings", Ultimate-ing, etc., the very concept of multiple continuities is simply more widespread and accepted. It's not just a "cheat and a cop-out" any more.

(1)So named for the stylistic similarities to the "Men in Black" cartoon series.
 
With the caveat that I do not speak for Pocket (or anyone else, for that matter), I wonder if some kind of "tech" article might be feasible for Star Trek Magazine? Given its demonstrated support/showcasing of various Pocket projects, I wonder if a series of such features with more artwork/diagrams etc. of things like Vanguard, Titan, etc. might work?

Just spit-balling here.

Yeah, I think any further "tech books" or the like will have to be done like that: paid for as part of some other product, with possible collections as gravy.

How are the "Ships of the Line" calendars selling? Would a "tech" calendar work? or maybe just a "tech centerfold" for the existing calendar lines?
 
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