Why is Star Trek so bad with women characters?

[Whizkid]

I agree that representation has gotten better.

(Still thinking about my wife and daughter.)

I unapologetically love Star Trek. Everything about it. And yet, there is that DISCO.

Think about it.

Masculinity. Kirk, Picard, even Spock.

1990s...Janeway...a woman who acts like a man...oh let us temper her testosterone! Let us introduce B'Ellana. Oh that did not work? How about Kes? Idiot character... let us introduce a bodysuit for people to salivate over. Enter 7/9. I know. She is hot. And an excellent character. If I remember, in the 90s, 7/9 took over. Nobody cared anymore about the story.

Enter E

'60s, '70s, and '80s Star Trek: It was a product of its time. What else is there to say? The way it depicted women was no better or worse than most of what I've seen from back then.

Post-'80s/Pre-DSC Star Trek: Also a product of its time. Women get better representation, but how it's presented and how often was mixed and uneven. The primary audience was intended to be men.

New Trek: I don't have a problem with how women have been depicted from Discovery onward. Whatever problems there may have been, this isn't one of them.

You DON'T have a problem with DISCO? I think Sonequa is a pretty good actress. All my wife asked was...why did they kill off Michelle? If you remember Tomorrow Never Dies or any number of Hong Kong cinema.

 

[Bad Thoughts]

Kirk --> Kirka --> Kira

Of course, it is simplistic to say Kira is female Kirk. But it would explain why Kira is different, not another attempt to excuse sexualizing women because they are professional.

 

[Whizkid]

Kirk --> Kirka --> Kira

Of course, it is simplistic to say Kira is female Kirk. But it would explain why Kira is different, not another attempt to excuse sexualizing women because they are professional.

Despite her clothes (nothing like 7 or T'Pol... obviously inducing testosterone) look at the Trill.

Au contraire...Nerys's clothes were functional. Plus she had two badasses to fight...the delectable Louise Fletcher (Kai Winn/Adami) and the disarmingly charming Mark Alaimo (the great Gul Dukat... excellent excellent villain. Someone who actually wants Nerys to want him. Wow. Except for the Borg, I think the best villain in all of Star Trek history except of course you know who. Cumbersome was such a travesty.)

Sisko and Quark never realised what a gift they had in Kira.

 

[Whizkid]

If you go into detail about what you don't like specifically about Trek's female characters, someone might agree, disagree, or argue for the defense.

Do I really need to go into the details?

Okay. James Bond. 1962. Dr. No. Star Trek. 1966. The Cage (in our part of the world. We're an underdeveloped country with too much population). Armstrong, Aldrin and Collins 1969...the Moon.

Spock
Spock
Spock
Suddenly
Data!
Picard!
Picard
Picard

The face of the supposed revolution.

 

[Whizkid]

Do I really need to go into the details?

Okay. James Bond. 1962. Dr. No. Star Trek. 1966. The Cage (in our part of the world. We're an underdeveloped country with too much population). Armstrong, Aldrin and Collins 1969...the Moon.

Spock
Spock
Spock
Suddenly
Data!
Picard!
Picard
Picard

The face of the supposed revoluti

 

[Whizkid]

To see Uhura, we had to sacrifice classes.

 

[scotpens]

Part of it was undoubtedly Roddenberry's tendency to think with his privates.

And part of it is undoubtedly a general background level of sexism in our culture.

And yet Star Trek fanfic has always been dominated by women, while 60 percent of professional Trek novels in the 1980s were written by women (although that percentage has decreased considerably since then).

 

[Whizkid]

And yet Star Trek fanfic has always been dominated by women, while 60 percent of professional Trek novels in the 1980s were written by women.

That's exactly the point! I thank you for mentioning it. I thought by now SOMEBODY would have called me out on the James Bond comparison!

 

[Lord Garth]

You DON'T have a problem with DISCO?

That's the post of the day!

I'll let other people tell you all about me.

 

[fireproof78]

Do I really need to go into the details?

Yes, I'd say so given the non sequitur about Bond makes very little sense in a thread about *checks title* why Star Trek* is so bad.

Fair warning, never seen a Bond film all the way through so many comparison is lost on me. No, no argument will inspire me to watch it. Rather read a book.

 

[Nerys Myk]

To see Uhura, we had to sacrifice classes.

What???

 

[Bad Thoughts]

I'M cOnFuSeD.

 

[Firebird]

To see Uhura, we had to sacrifice classes.

 

[Whizkid]

And yet Star Trek fanfic has always been dominated by women, while 60 percent of professional Trek novels in the 1980s were written by women (although that percentage has decreased considerably since then).

Yes, I'd say so given the non sequitur about Bond makes very little sense in a thread about *checks title* why Star Trek* is so bad.

Fair warning, never seen a Bond film all the way through so many comparison is lost on me. No, no argument will inspire me to watch it. Rather read a book.

Okay

I like Firebird. 's like my Georgie to my Data. S/he cannot be Ferengi.

 

[TheFlutteringHorde]

Okay



I like Firebird. 's like my Georgie to my Data. S/he cannot be Ferengi.

Nobody understands what you are writing.

 

[Whizkid]

Sorry. It's just that I'm curious.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Sorry. It's just that I'm curious.

Just being coherent would be nice.

 

[1001001]

That’s enough.

 

[Lord Garth]

Just got home. I'm not good with fetching links over my cellphone. Have to do it behind a desktop.

Anyway...

I definitely agree representation has gotten better over the years, at least that’s how it seems to me.

It may be more up to the female fans to decide that than us.

Yes. I agree with that as well. Someone like Jarrah Hodge, who runs the site Feminist Trekkie.

I discovered her site last year, but didn't post about it here, because I didn't want to start a thread that would then get derailed. I think you can probably understand my concern there.

She gathered together all kinds of statistics, including how each Star Trek series, old and new, fares with the Bechdel Test as well as gender representation. And she analyzed the differences between TOS, the Berman Era series, and the Kurtzman Era series.

So that's why I posted what I posted with confidence. That and because of what I've seen during the past eight years, and the way people who complain, "They made it woke!" have overreacted. Which means the people making Star Trek now are doing something right, in this regard.

 

[DonIago]

So that's why I posted what I posted with confidence. That and because of what I've seen during the past eight years, and the way people who complain, "They made it woke!" have overreacted. Which means the people making Star Trek now are doing something right, in this regard.

Personally, I fail to see how making it 'woke' is supposed to be a negative in any case. I think it says more about the people who consider that to be a negative.

Alternately, they don't even know what 'woke' really means and are just being careless with their words...which might be another reason to disregard them. If they can't say what they mean, how can they be expected to mean what they say?