Could Star Trek V been saved?

[Dukhat]

Shatner was involved in that Roddenberry short a few months back, but admittedly he was the hero so that probably wouldn't contradict your point.

Shatner didn’t actually act in Unification; that was all Sam Witwer.

However, the Starfleet Academy PC game features Shatner as Kirk a lot (in the live action cutscenes) and he's not in the starring role nor an invincible hero in it.

There’s a bit of a difference between a video game and movies/TV shows.

 

[Yistaan]

There’s a bit of a difference between a video game and movies/TV shows.

I'm not sure what your point is because if Shatner was the egotist you claim him to be then he wouldn't "lower" himself to do video games.

 

[Dukhat]

I'm not sure what your point is because if Shatner was the egotist you claim him to be then he wouldn't "lower" himself to do video games.

You’re assuming that he thought filming a few scenes for a video game was beneath him. Maybe he just wanted to have some fun for the young people.

Also: 1997 Shatner is not 2025 Shatner.

 

[CoveTom]

I’ve never seen Ahsoka so I’ll have to take your word for it.

As far as TFF is concerned, Shatner’s motive for the film is painfully evident right from the start, with Kirk and his rock-climbing stunt (and also in the thankfully cut skydiving scene in Generations): Shatner, through Kirk, is showing off his seeming invincibility, the only conceit being that he’s not afraid of dying because he has his friends to save him if he gets in trouble. Now if Shatner had carried through with this idea when Sybok offers to heal his pain, at least it would have made more sense for Kirk to finally give in. Because he admitted his secret pain earlier in the film: That Kirk is only afraid of dying if he’s alone. Which coincides with Shatner’s secret pain: he’s afraid of losing his fame unless the fictional character he plays can single-handedly save the day against all odds. That’s why Shatner has constantly refused to do cameo roles: because Kirk wouldn’t be the hero. And since nobody is offering him a hero role, he will never come back to Star Trek.

But imagine if Shatner had put aside his narcissism and included a scene where Kirk is actually alone and helpless, and owns that he is truly nothing without his fans…er, friends. That vulnerability would have been fantastic character development. But he opted instead to be the tough guy surrounded by weaklings.

I agree with pretty much all of this. Of course, that goes back to my basic theory that the actors in a production should never be given creative control. I'm not saying actors can't make good directors. They certainly can -- just look at Jonathan Frakes. But more often than not, if they start directing the things they appear in, or becoming the executive producer, or whatever, they "lose the plot" as folks like to say. Witness Patrick Stewart and Picard (the series).

What amazes me about TFF is that everyone let Shatner just do what he wanted. Where was Harve Bennett in all that? Back in TSFS, Shatner had wanted to get involved in the scene between McCoy and the unconscious Spock, and Bennett vetoed it, telling him that was DeForest Kelley's moment to shine. Why didn't he take a similar stand on TFF? And why didn't Harve Bennett, the budget-minded TV producer who managed to pull of TWOK on a shoestring budget, tell Shatner that he couldn't indulge in hanging off the side of a mountain in Yosemite when they didn't even have enough money for their visual effects? It's baffling to me.

If it weren't for Nimoy and Kelley themselves at least offering a little resistance, we'd have had Spock and McCoy betray Kirk too.

Fortunately, back in the TOS days, the dynamic was different and the actors didn't have that much control. Can you imagine Shatner today ever agreeing to an episode like "The Tholian Web" where Kirk just floats around a parallel universe for most of the episode and Spock and McCoy get to be the stars?

 

[Yistaan]

I agree with pretty much all of this. Of course, that goes back to my basic theory that the actors in a production should never be given creative control. I'm not saying actors can't make good directors. They certainly can -- just look at Jonathan Frakes. But more often than not, if they start directing the things they appear in, or becoming the executive producer, or whatever, they "lose the plot" as folks like to say. Witness Patrick Stewart and Picard (the series).

What amazes me about TFF is that everyone let Shatner just do what he wanted. Where was Harve Bennett in all that? Back in TSFS, Shatner had wanted to get involved in the scene between McCoy and the unconscious Spock, and Bennett vetoed it, telling him that was DeForest Kelley's moment to shine. Why didn't he take a similar stand on TFF? And why didn't Harve Bennett, the budget-minded TV producer who managed to pull of TWOK on a shoestring budget, tell Shatner that he couldn't indulge in hanging off the side of a mountain in Yosemite when they didn't even have enough money for their visual effects? It's baffling to me.

If it weren't for Nimoy and Kelley themselves at least offering a little resistance, we'd have had Spock and McCoy betray Kirk too.

Fortunately, back in the TOS days, the dynamic was different and the actors didn't have that much control. Can you imagine Shatner today ever agreeing to an episode like "The Tholian Web" where Kirk just floats around a parallel universe for most of the episode and Spock and McCoy get to be the stars?

• Co-Writer/Producer Harve Bennett, partly responsible for the three previous successful Star Trek movies, initially did not want to make the film as both his relationship with several key production staffers, in particular with Leonard Nimoy, had started to deteriorate with Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home. He was also fed up with Roddenberry's interloping. Shatner trusted Bennett, but had a hard time convincing him to come aboard. (Star Trek Movie Memories, 1995, pp. 283-285)

The above is from Memory Alpha. Also it seems Harve was already starting to formulate his prequel Starfleet Academy ideas. So he probably wasn't even bothering with ST5 anymore other than phoning it in.

EDIT -- I went straight to the source and bought Star Trek Movie Memories on digital, and there's a long portion going into how badly Bennett felt he was burned with Nimoy and how he felt that the stars had the control on these movies. It wouldn't surprise me that Bennett by 5 just let Shatner do what he want to avoid his relationship with him deteroriating the way his and Nimoy's did