What are your controversial Star Trek opinions?

[Kamen Rider Blade]

Star Trek didn't do that in TOS. I guess the writers really hated it.

ST:TOS was making the rules up as it went along.
Some of it was followed, some of it fell by the wayside.

It didn't become more concrete until later on.

No, we can't. People are demanding minutia over characters. And if the story fails, it's the minutia's fault, and the writers are not "true fans." It's a nonstarter to me.

Then don't take that fans assessment too seriously.
Every fan has their own standards as to why ___ episode worked or didn't.
You have yours, I have mines.
The minutiae might matter or might not depending on what topic they decide to delve into.
Whether it's right or wrong is up for debate.

Because if something impacts us we are all connected together. Shouldn't we want to get better, to be healthier and to grow?

What impacts me doesn't seem to impact the rest of you.
You guys either shrug your shoulders or have moved on.
I choose not to move on, I choose to focus on it & never let it go.
That's a personal choice.

Some of you guys want to defend Berman, that's your choice.
I won't, I'll be like the Klingons.
We don't Forgive or Forget!
Berman's sins won't be so easily wiped away through the passage of time.

 

[Firebird]

"Clever" slogans and references don't make unhealthy grudges acceptable.

 

[fireproof78]

ST:TOS was making the rules up as it went along.
Some of it was followed, some of it fell by the wayside.

It didn't become more concrete until later on.

TNG wasn't much better. Yet, one is treated as gospel. The other gets a pass, unless it is contradicted by the evil newer Trek.

he minutiae might matter or might not depending on what topic they decide to delve into.

If the minutia is the reason I don't like an episode then it already failed.

Some of you guys want to defend Berman, that's your choice.
I won't, I'll be like the Klingons.
We don't Forgive or Forget!
Berman's sins won't be so easily wiped away through the passage of time.

Who said forgive or forget? That's a nonsensical binary argument that isn't being what is said at all. So, maybe the windmills don't need to be tilted at?

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

TNG wasn't much better. Yet, one is treated as gospel. The other gets a pass, unless it is contradicted by the evil newer Trek.

TNG had a lot more well thought out Technical Manuals and Encyclopedias that helped define the world that is Star Trek.
Stuff many of us fans have consumed and still own.

If the minutia is the reason I don't like an episode then it already failed.

Is that why you dislike minutiae?

Who said forgive or forget? That's a nonsensical binary argument that isn't being what is said at all. So, maybe the windmills don't need to be tilted at?

Maybe it should, because you guys want me to change my feelings on it.
I've stated otherwise that I won't.

 

[cooleddie74]

"We don't forgive and forget" isn't a healthy mindset, not about Star Trek hiring practices or storylines. That kind of way of dealing with a favorite fictional entertainment franchise just leads to more arguing and division.

 

[fireproof78]

TNG had a lot more well thought out Technical Manuals and Encyclopedias that helped define the world that is Star Trek.
Stuff many of us fans have consumed and still own.

Yes, I own them.

Is that why you dislike minutiae

No, I dislike it because it gets called out all the time while ignoring the characters. Because somehow the technobabble, the stuff that the TOS writer's bible said to avoid, became the most important thing.

Maybe it should, because you guys want me to change my feelings on it.

I want you to be healthy. And a grudge is not healthy. It's a very Stoic attitude I have.

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

Yes, I own them.

So do I.

No, I dislike it because it gets called out all the time while ignoring the characters. Because somehow the technobabble, the stuff that the TOS writer's bible said to avoid, became the most important thing.

So how do you solve technical problems in writing dialogue form?

What is "TechnoBabble" to one laymen might actually be "Intelligible Information" to somebody who is technically versed in the field.
The world is filled with plenty of specialities with "Technical Lingo" for each field.
The more complex and specialized it gets, the more "Special Lingo" comes with each field.
The same with Science / Engineering / Math / Any Field that has specialty knowledge / etc.

I'm sure if you were talking with your fellow Psychologist or Pyschiatrist buddies, you would be using special lingo that normal folks wouldn't understand.

The same with everybody who has specialty knowledge and talks to somebody else who understands the same field in.

I want you to be healthy. And a grudge is not healthy. It's a very Stoic attitude I have.

I'm fine. I hold Grudges because "I want to", that's a personal choice.
You may not like that since you're a Psychologist by trade, but it's what I want to do.
I don't believe in the same way of doing things as you would.
That's how I am by choice.

 

[fireproof78]

So how do you solve technical problems in writing dialogue form?

Watch TOS. They handled it well. Minor amounts, with the people actually talking about the problem and their contributions rather than relying on all the settings.

Or MASH.

I'm sure if you were talking with your fellow Psychologist or Pyschiatrist buddies, you would be using special lingo that normal folks wouldn't understand.

Key difference: I'm not written for entertainment.

I'm fine. I hold Grudges because "I want to", that's a personal choice.
You may not like that since you're a Psychologist by trade, but it's what I want to do.
I don't believe in the same way of doing things as you would.
That's how I am by choice.

I'm expressing an opinion of what is extremely unhealthy, as well as kind of counter to what a lot of Star Trek teaches. I didn't ask you to do it "my way." I literally references "The Stoics" not some counseling mumbo jumbo that people will dismiss as technobabble. You're not seeing me in a professional capacity so I don't have to mince words as a professional counselor.

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

Watch TOS. They handled it well. Minor amounts, with the people actually talking about the problem and their contributions rather than relying on all the settings.

Or MASH.

Is that how you like your dialogue?
Then I'm sure you must've been really happy with SNW.

For me, since I'm a technical nerd, I get the Techno Babble, it works for me.

Key difference: I'm not written for entertainment.

But if your conversation had to be written for TV?

I'm expressing an opinion of what is extremely unhealthy, as well as kind of counter to what a lot of Star Trek teaches.

I know that, and I choose to indulge in it deliberately.
That's a personal decision that I want to down that route.

I didn't ask you to do it "my way." I literally references "The Stoics" not some counseling mumbo jumbo that people will dismiss as technobabble. You're not seeing me in a professional capacity so I don't have to mince words as a professional counselor.

Are you really trying to tell me to practice "Stoicism"?

 

[fireproof78]

Is that how you like your dialogue?
Then I'm sure you must've been really happy with SNW.

For me, since I'm a technical nerd, I get the Techno Babble, it works for me.

It depends. Not all dialog is equal.

But if your conversation had to be written for TV?

It wouldn't be anything us professionals actually say.

Are you really trying to tell me to practice "Stoicism"?

I offered an alternative. Or, if you prefer, Dialectical Behavioral Therapy is similar enough for the 21st century mind.

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

It depends. Not all dialog is equal.

What parts of SNW's dialogue made you unhappy?
It's incredibly toned down compared to the TNG era where TechnoBabble was used ALOT more.
It's as close to TOS as any of the modern Trek shows has become in terms of dialog complexity.

It wouldn't be anything us professionals actually say.

Why not? I don't want a Hollywood Dumbed Down dialogue.
I want the real deal, no dumbing down for the plebs.

I offered an alternative. Or, if you prefer, Dialectical Behavioral Therapy is similar enough for the 21st century mind.

Great, I'm not going to listen to it.
Yeah, I'm not going to participate in your treatment, so you don't have to waste your time.

 

[fireproof78]

What parts of SNW's dialogue made you unhappy?
It's incredibly toned down compared to the TNG era where TechnoBabble was used ALOT more.
It's as close to TOS as any of the modern Trek shows has become in terms of dialog complexity.

I don't have any works cited off the top of my head, sorry. Not watched SNW in about a year.

Why not? I don't want a Hollywood Dumbed Down dialogue.
I want the real deal, no dumbing down for the plebs.

Because we swear.

Yeah, I'm not going to participate in your treatment, so you don't have to waste your time.

It's hardly my treatment and I didn't say you had to participate. So, maybe let's not be so defensive. It was just a friendly recommendation from someone who worries about your health. It is never a waste of time to express concern for another human being.

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

I don't have any works cited off the top of my head, sorry. Not watched SNW in about a year.

Whatever last Trek Show you watched, it doesn't have to be SNW.

Because we swear.

That would work great for regular TV.

It's hardly my treatment and I didn't say you had to participate. So, maybe let's not be so defensive. It was just a friendly recommendation from someone who worries about your health.

You don't need to worry about my health.
In fact, I'd rather people not care about my health.
That's by design & deliberate intent.

It is never a waste of time to express concern for another human being.

I'm happy that's how you want to express yourself.
Good on you.
I'm the type that doesn't want to be cared for.

 

[fireproof78]

Whatever last Trek Show you watched, it doesn't have to be SNW.

SNW.

That would work great for regular TV.

Probably not. Rapid fire, asking questions about history, identifying emotional reactions, and relationship patterns.

You don't need to worry about my health.
In fact, I'd rather people not care about my health.
That's by design & deliberate intent.

Too late.

I'm the type that doesn't want to be cared for.

I fucking hate people caring about me. Doesn't stop them.

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

SNW.

-_-

Is there any Trek show specific episode that you can cite that has dialogue you don't like?

Probably not. Rapid fire, asking questions about history, identifying emotional reactions, and relationship patterns.

That sounds intriguing. Makes for great Realistic TV.

Too late.

Tries to push it back into the box.

I fucking hate people caring about me. Doesn't stop them.

-_-

 

[fireproof78]

Is there any Trek show specific episode that you can cite that has dialogue you don't like?

Voyager.

hat sounds intriguing. Makes for great Realistic TV.

Hahahaha...I highly doubt that. Therapists are boring as shit.

Tries to push it back into the box.

I think outside the box

-_-

The caregiver's curse. It was a special day in my family recently and my family insisted upon celebrating it. I couldn't stand it but accepted it regardless.

Such is the way of things

 

[BillJ]

For me, since I'm a technical nerd, I get the Techno Babble, it works for me.

It is gibberish.

 

[cooleddie74]

I love Trek canon and Trekspeak, but there are times the technobabble is so bad and suffocating that I just go, "just plug the doo-hickey into the whatzit and throw some switch or something." Like most things Trek, the best things are used at least a little sparingly.

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

It is gibberish.

To a layman, ANY technical speak would be Gibberish.

That applies to any Technical Field IRL.

I love Trek canon and Trekspeak, but there are times the technobabble is so bad and suffocating that I just go, "just plug the doo-hickey into the whatzit and throw some switch or something." Like most things Trek, the best things are used at least a little sparingly.

Then you should be happy that modern Trek has alot lest TrekNoBabble then ever before.

 

[BillJ]

To a layman, ANY technical speak would be Gibberish.

The people who worked on the show have admitted it is gibberish.