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A (potentially) unpopular opinion

I'm going to start by saying that I know that there will be some disagreement about this.

Here goes:

I believe that TOS covered all 5 years of James Kirk's 5 year mission on the Enterprise (NOT just the first 3 years). Hear me out: going by the stardates given in most episodes, the stardates at the beginning of the series are in the 1xxx/x range, at the end of the series they are in the upper 5xxx.x range. Theory (mine): the first digit corresponds to which year of the 5 year mission. Therefore we have actually seen all 5 years of Kirk's famous tenure.

Here I have listed all 79 episodes in stardate order, broken down by year:

First Year (2265)
1312.4 Where No Man Has Gone Before
1329.1 Mudd's Women
1512.2 The Corbomite Maneuver
1513.1 The Man Trap
1533.6 Charlie X
1672.1 The Enemy Within
1704.2 The Naked Time
1709.1 Balance of Terror

Second Year (2266)
2124.5 The Squire of Gothos
2534.0 Patterns of Force
2712.4 What Are Little Girls Made Of?
2713.5 Miri
2715.1 Dagger of the Mind
2817.6 Conscience of the King
2821.5 The Galileo Seven
2947.3 Court Martial

Third Year (2267)
3012.4 The Menagerie, Part I
3013.0 The Menagerie, Part II
3018.2 Catspaw
3025.3 Shore Leave
3045.6 Arena
3087.6 The Alternative Factor
3113.2 Tomorrow is Yesterday
3134.0 City on the Edge of Forever
3141.9 Space Seed
3156.2 Return of the Archons
3192.1 A Taste of Armageddon
3196.1 Devil in the Dark
3198.4 Errand of Mercy
3211.7 Gamesters of Triskelion
3219.8 Metamorphosis
3287.2 Operation: Annihilate!
3372.7* Day of the Dove
3372.7 Amok Time
3417.3 This Side of Paradise
3468.1 Who Mourns for Adonais?
3478.2 The Deadly Years
3497.2 Friday's Child
3541.9 The Changeling
3614.9 Wolf in the Fold
3619.2 Obsession
3715.3 The Apple
3823.7* Mirror, Mirror
3842.3 Journey to Babel

Fourth Year (2268)
4040.7 Bread and Circuses
4202.9 The Doomsday Machine
4211.4 A Private Little War
4272.5 Elaan of Troyius
4307.1 The Immunity Syndrome
4385.3 Spectre of the Gun
4513.3 I, Mudd
4523.3 The Trouble with Tribbles
4598.0 A Piece of the Action
4657.5 By Any Other Name
4729.4 The Ultimate Computer
4768.3 Return to Tomorrow
4842.6 The Paradise Syndrome
Year 2268 The Omega Glory
Year 2268 Assignment: Earth

Fifth Year (2269)
5027.3 And the Children Shall Lead
5031.3 The Enterprise Incident
5121.0 The Empath
5423.4 The Mark of Gideon
5431.4 Spock's Brain
5476.3 For the World Is Hollow and I Have Touched the Sky
5630.7 Is There in Truth No Beauty?
5693.4 The Tholian Web
5710.5 Wink of an Eye
5718.3 Whom Gods Destroy
5725.3 The Lights of Zetar
5730.2 Let That Be Your Last Battlefield
5784.2 Plato's Stepchildren
5818.4 The Cloud Minders
5832.3 Way to Eden
5843.7 Requiem for Methuselah
5906.4 The Savage Curtain
5928.5 Turnabout Intruder
5943.7 All Our Yesterdays
5978.2* That Which Survives

*The stardates with asterisks were gathered from beta canon sources


Also the highest stardate being in the mid 59xx range fits with Star Trek: The Motion Picture being set on stardate 74xx and Scotty saying in the movie "we have just spent 18 months redesigning and refitting the Enterprise". And before anyone says anything, yes, I know that Stardates are used differently in the movies.

Having seen all 5 years of Kirk's mission in the 3 seasons of TOS makes more sense to me then the common opinion that we only saw 3 years. Why even have a two year gap there in the first place.

Your thoughts?
I can see it work that way very easily. But what about the Animated series (I do believe that it was retconned to being part of the canon by Roddenberry himself when he was speaking to the crowd at a convention, but I can't find the actual proof of same) since most people consider it to be "the missing" two years of the original 5 year mission
Apparently the TNG system does not reset, since DSC season 3-5 in the 32nd century has stardates in the 8xxxxx.x range. Also I was intentionally ignoring TAS since it is mostly agreed to be non canon.
Actually the Animated series has been confirmed to be Canon by the powers that be at Paramount when they relaunched The Star Trek.com website in 2010.
 
The 90s shows were produced when TAS was considered non-canonical so there are conflicts. That's why I follow the Lower Decks rule: if Lower Decks references something in TAS, then it exists in Star Trek... but it's probably less absurd than it seems in the show.
 
The 90s shows were produced when TAS was considered non-canonical so there are conflicts. That's why I follow the Lower Decks rule: if Lower Decks references something in TAS, then it exists in Star Trek... but it's probably less absurd than it seems in the show.
I don't like this notion that the older shows somehow need "permission" from the new shows to be considered valid. Why should the Kurtzman shows have more of a say about what it's canon and what it's not? TOS and TAS came first, they were created by Roddenberry, and more or less the same core staff. That should be enough reason to consider them canon. You don't need any "official definition", or ask Paramount constantly about what it's canon and what has been de-canonized this particular month. It's just common sense that the original is the original. When in doubt, I'd doubt the spin-offs, if anything. Specially when those spin-offs are made by people completely unrelated to the original creators, who aren't even around anymore, in most cases.
 
I don't like this notion that the older shows somehow need "permission" from the new shows to be considered valid. Why should the Kurtzman shows have more of a say about what it's canon and what it's not? TOS and TAS came first, they were created by Roddenberry, and more or less the same core staff. That should be enough reason to consider them canon. You don't need any "official definition", or ask Paramount constantly about what it's canon and what has been de-canonized this particular month. It's just common sense that the original is the original. When in doubt, I'd doubt the spin-offs, if anything. Specially when those spin-offs are made by people completely unrelated to the original creators, who aren't even around anymore, in most cases.
And, in any case, canon means exactly nothing for enjoyment of the story.
 
And, in any case, canon means exactly nothing for enjoyment of the story.
Just so. Unless one is writing material intended to be licensed for the franchise, I fail to see why whether or not something is canon should matter. As an example, I've enjoyed many of the novels, and I don't care whether or not they 'officially happened', and if they're contradicted by later 'more official' works, then it's not as though my copies of the novels are going to self-destruct.
 
And, in any case, canon means exactly nothing for enjoyment of the story.
Maybe not for enjoyment as such. But it's annoying when people start treating the older
stories as "wrong" or "debunked" just because the story from last week said so. It would be something if all the stories were written by the same person. Then yeah, we could say that the new version replaces the old one. But when we're talking of totally different productions, separated by decades? It feels so counter-intuitive to think so...
 
Maybe not for enjoyment as such. But it's annoying when people start treating the older
stories as "wrong" or "debunked" just because the story from last week said so. It would be something if all the stories were written by the same person. Then yeah, we could say that the new version replaces the old one. But when we're talking of totally different productions, separated by decades? It feels so counter-intuitive to think so...
There's really no place where the stories are replaced.
 
The whole 'living universe' side of Star Trek has always been a big part of why I like it. People keep adding to the story, filling in more of the details, showing us more of the history, it's awesome. It's part of the reason why I never miss a new episode, of any of the shows. Even Section 31.

If you're not into that aspect of it, then I can understand why it'd be annoying to have people disregard episodes because they don't fit with later material. And man I absolutely can't stand retcons and 'everything you know is wrong' story twists. But I like Star Trek as an ongoing story built upon a history, and if parts of its history contradict then only one of those things can be true in my mind. I didn't consciously decide to watch television this way, it's just my brain doing what it does.
 
Revisions (or even retcons) are fine if they're used to interpret the series at hand, the one which introduced the revision. But I think there's something very artificial when using them to re-interpret things that were done a long time ago. Like, I've seen people trying to explain some of Spock's behaviours in TOS because of his relationship with his sister Michael (I don't remember the details, just that Michael was brought up in an analysis about TOS). And it's all fine if someone wants to reconcile both series in his mind, and "close the gap", so to speak. But one can't seriously use this to understand what's really going on with Spock in TOS. I mean, context and author's intentions must count something, right?
 
And it's all fine if someone wants to reconcile both series in his mind, and "close the gap", so to speak. But one can't seriously use this to understand what's really going on with Spock in TOS. I mean, context and author's intentions must count something, right?
It's fiction. Of course I can.

That's part of the imagination that I enjoy with Star Trek.
 
It's fiction. Of course I can.

That's part of the imagination that I enjoy with Star Trek.
Did I ever say that you "can't", as in "not allowed"? Yes, of course you can; I literally said that it's fine if you want to do it. All I'm saying is that I'm not personally comfortable with that kind of revisionism or "death of the author", that I find it artificial and can't take it seriously.
For example, I see people now trying to reconcile the portrayal of SNW Chapel with her portrayal in TOS, by explaining how she became depressed after Korby's death, and that's why she's more subdued now. And how her advances at Spock are due to her not being over their previous relationship. Okay, if you want to explain things like that, do so. But being totally honest, does someone REALLY think that was the intention with Chapel in TOS? The character wasn't written as a depressed woman or an obsessed ex. She hadn't been following her ex around for years. She just had an unrequited crush on this new guy she met recently, nothing else.

And this is the problem I see with these enforced revisions of the new material over the old material. They end up warping the characters in ways that were never intended in the original. They're not real people, they're fictional characters, so when the writers change, the characters will necessarily change. They're never gonna be 100% consistent, so there's no need to be constantly revising or retconning things to achieve "perfect consistency".
And going back to TAS, it's the same thing. The show is done, it has Roddenberry's name on the credits. Take it or leave it, just as it is. But what's the point in going back all the time to "correct" TAS or strike things out, according to the latest whims?
 
Did I ever say that you "can't", as in "not allowed"? Yes, of course you can; I literally said that it's fine if you want to do it. All I'm saying is that I'm not personally comfortable with that kind of revisionism or "death of the author", that I find it artificial and can't take it seriously.
For example, I see people now trying to reconcile the portrayal of SNW Chapel with her portrayal in TOS, by explaining how she became depressed after Korby's death, and that's why she's more subdued now. And how her advances at Spock are due to her not being over their previous relationship. Okay, if you want to explain things like that, do so. But being totally honest, does someone REALLY think that was the intention with Chapel in TOS? The character wasn't written as a depressed woman or an obsessed ex. She hadn't been following her ex around for years. She just had an unrequited crush on this new guy she met recently, nothing else.

And this is the problem I see with these enforced revisions of the new material over the old material. They end up warping the characters in ways that were never intended in the original. They're not real people, they're fictional characters, so when the writers change, the characters will necessarily change. They're never gonna be 100% consistent, so there's no need to be constantly revising or retconning things to achieve "perfect consistency".
And going back to TAS, it's the same thing. The show is done, it has Roddenberry's name on the credits. Take it or leave it, just as it is. But what's the point in going back all the time to "correct" TAS or strike things out, according to the latest whims?
I guess this is taking it to a far greater degree than I do. I think they can connect and if I treat them as "connected" then I make it work. But, in the moment, I just watch the episode. I don't do authorial intent as I watch, I don't do "death of the author" as I watch. It's just a story.

If I'm thinking about other stories while watching a story I'm clearly not invested. I don't mind retconns or revisions because ultimately that's not why I'm watching that story.
 
I think it's far simpler to accept that DSC and SNW are just an alternate continuity. Far cleaner that way and a lot less confusing.
Indeed.
I’m not confused either. I come here to talk about TOS. For me the rest beyond that is irrelevant and doesn’t exist.
...especially productions I do not consider visually and creatively on the level of the core original productions (think A View to a Kill down from From Russia with Love).
 
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