What are your controversial Star Trek opinions?

[BillJ]

Like him or hate him, we wouldn't still be talking about Star Trek had it not been for Rick Berman running the show after Gene was no longer fit to do so.

Gene was out pretty early on, in everything but name. So, on Rick Berman's watch we got the Borg, Cardassians, Bajorans, DS9, VOY, ENT. Not to mention the characters he had a hand in creating.

I don't have to like the man (I think he was a pretty shitty human being), but to dismiss his contributions to the franchise is beyond ridiculous.

 

[kkt]

Doubtful. They're all public domain, so there'd be no money for him to make off of them.

Do you have evidence that Shakespeare never cared for anything but making money?

 

[BillJ]

Do you have evidence that Shakespeare never cared for anything but making money?

No, but I think he'd learn pretty quickly how important it is in our society.

 

[ananta]

I like the shows, I don't particularly like him.

He's part of the reason why the Golden Age of Trek ended the way it did.

FIFY: Silver Age of Trek

 

[Lord Garth]

Hell, I'm only one fan and I want eight different things.

Most of what I Iooked forward to, I ended up liking. Most of what I didn't look forward to or felt indifferent about, I ended up not being into.

The only time I was ever completely off, across 35 years, was the S31 TV Movie.

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

Please do tell how? Everything that made it to screen had to have his approval.

He was awful to all the women actors, corroborated by Denise Crosby, Marina Sirtis, Terry Farrell, Jeri Ryan.
He gave them zero respect during contract negotiations, increasingly wanted to sexualize their roles (catsuits, "decontamination" scenes, etc), and straight up fired Terry Farrell from DS9 after she just asked for an episode reduction for S7.

He screwed over Wil Wheaton by forcing him to turn down an opportunity to star in a big movie for no reason other than control/power

He denied Garrett Wang the opportunity to direct an episode of Voyager, even after a bunch of main Trek actors have directed episodes before.
Yeah, screw the only Asian Actor on the show, that's a great look Rick.

The Constant Reseting of Voyager's Condition to be back to normal at the end of every episode so that it would help with Syndication.

The Year of Hell was supposed to last all season as a Season long arc.
It got cut down to 2 eps because of Rick Berman not a fan of Serialized Story Telling and wanting it to be shorter, MUCH shorter.

Rick Berman in general hated Serialized Story Telling, only cared about independent self contained eps so he could syndicate the shows.
The DS9 crew had to go behind Rick's back to get their Story Arcs told the way they wanted to.

He told the human actors on VOY to *intentionally* be boring so that the alien actors would seem more realistic. Numerous scenes had to be reshot because the humans seemed too emotional.

He fired TNG composer Ron Jones midway through the show's run because his music was "too noticeable" and he just wanted "wallpaper music".
Pretty much all of the good early TNG music is from Ron Jones, he was excellent.

Increasingly stuck his nose in the writing credits for VOY and ENT (even though he wasn't a writer!) as the franchise began to spiral downward.
Once he gave showrunning control over to Manny Coto for S4 of ENT, the show became good, although by then it was too late.

That's just one of many issues with Rick Berman.

His job was to run the franchise, keep it on time and on budget. He did that in spades, or else Paramount wouldn't have kept bringing him back.

As far as creative decisions go, please name someone who has a perfect track record?

Perfect, I don't believe in Perfect.

But JMS (J. Michael Stracynski) handled B5 a bit better.

And that was a contemporary of Berman Trek.

 

[BillJ]

He denied Garrett Wang the opportunity to direct an episode of Voyager, even after a bunch of main Trek actors have directed episodes before.

You do know that Garrett Wang refused to put in the work needed to learn how to direct?

He was awful to all the women actors, corroborated by Denise Crosby, Marina Sirtis, Terry Farrell, Jeri Ryan.
He gave them zero respect during contract negotiations, increasingly wanted to sexualize their roles (catsuits, "decontamination" scenes, etc),

He was. Which is why I said he was a shitty human being.

and straight up fired Terry Farrell from DS9 after she just asked for an episode reduction for S7.

Wanted to keep the trains on time. Besides, a reduction for Farrell would've either necessitated more work dumped on the other actors or the creation of a new character. He made his decision on what was best for the show, his role as Executive Producer.

He fired TNG composer Ron Jones midway through the show's run because his music was "too noticeable" and he just wanted "wallpaper music".

I like Ron Jones. Same time, it was Berman's call to make. I don't have to agree with it.

Increasingly stuck his nose in the writing credits for VOY and ENT (even though he wasn't a writer!) as the franchise began to spiral downward.
Once he gave showrunning control over to Manny Coto for S4 of ENT, the show became good, although by then it was too late.

He stuck his nose in, because they were his characters. He helped create them.

None of this means that the shows would've been better if headed up by someone else. Unless you have access to the multiverse?

 

[Firebird]

Increasingly stuck his nose in the writing credits for VOY and ENT (even though he wasn't a writer!) as the franchise began to spiral downward.

How dare Berman write for the shows he co-created, and in the case of Enterprise, co-wrote the pilot for!

 

[BillJ]

How dare Berman write for the shows he co-created, and in the case of Enterprise, co-wrote the pilot for!

He actually has 'story by' credits for both "Emissary" and "Caretaker".

 

[BillJ]

Rick Berman

Rick Berman is an American television producer. He is best known for his work as the executive producer of several of the Star Trek series.

www.themoviedb.org

 

[CorporalCaptain]

Rick Berman

Rick Berman is an American television producer. He is best known for his work as the executive producer of several of the Star Trek series.

www.themoviedb.org

Well, my days of not taking seriously someone who says Berman wasn't a writer are certainly coming to a middle.

 

[BillJ]

Well, my days of not taking seriously someone who says Berman wasn't a writer are certainly coming to a middle.

I don't think he was a "traditional" writer. But the 24th century definitely had his fingerprints all over it.

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

You do know that Garrett Wang refused to put in the work needed to learn how to direct?

Garret Wang claims otherwise.
Everybody else got a chance but him.
He was literally singled out by Berman and denied the opportunity.

He was. Which is why I said he was a shitty human being.

Exactly.

Wanted to keep the trains on time. Besides, a reduction for Farrell would've either necessitated more work dumped on the other actors or the creation of a new character. He made his decision on what was best for the show, his role as Executive Producer.

IMO, he made the wrong call.

I like Ron Jones. Same time, it was Berman's call to make. I don't have to agree with it.

I'm with you on that, it was the WRONG CALL, and we all suffered for it.

He stuck his nose in, because they were his characters. He helped create them.

He "Authorized Them", it was more Branon Braga & the writing room that created those characters
Berman wasn't as instrumental as you think he was.

None of this means that the shows would've been better if headed up by someone else. Unless you have access to the multiverse?

I'm sure there were options as to who could've run the Trek Franchise, but we got what we got because somehow, he landed the job as the last surviving EP.
If only Bob Justman stayed on board, he could've run the franchise and Rick could've left along with Maurice Hurley.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

I don't think he was a "traditional" writer. But the 24th century definitely had his fingerprints all over it.

I'm not sure I understand what that means. A writing credit is a writing credit.

For example, "Brothers" was a very good TNG episode.

 

[BillJ]

But JMS (J. Michael Stracynski) handled B5 a bit better.

Rick Berman ran four TV series, three of which ran seven seasons and a feature film franchise.

He was literally singled out by Berman and denied the opportunity.

Berman didn't think he was ready.

IMO, he made the wrong call.

Based on?

I'm with you on that, it was the WRONG CALL, and we all suffered for it.

I didn't suffer. Not even a little bit.

Berman wasn't as instrumental as you think he was.

Based on?

If only Bob Justman stayed on board, he could've run the franchise and Rick could've left along with Maurice Hurley.

Bob Justman was sixty, he was burned out.

 

[BillJ]

I'm not sure I understand what that means. A writing credit is a writing credit.

For example, "Brothers" was a very good TNG episode.

I don't think he was someone who spent 12 hours a day hammering on scripts on his keyboard, refining his craft. Like so many writers. He got his opportunity to write because of who he was.

It isn't a slight against Berman. Just the reality of trying to run so much at one time.

Circling back to Garrett Wang...

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[Kamen Rider Blade]

Rick Berman ran four TV series, three of which ran seven seasons and a feature film franchise.

JMS Created/Produced/Wrote B5 for
5 continuous Seasons
Had 5 TV movies to go along with it.
Made B5 Crusade (A Spin-Off TV series)
2x Direct to DVD movies
Was involved with the numerous Novels tied into the greater B5 Universe.

Berman didn't think he was ready.

Yet somehow, every other Actor in Trek was ready, but Garret.

Based on?

He was hard balling her on her contract extension for DS9 S7, and kept Ira Steven Behr out of it by not telling him anything about it.
When he didn't get the answer he wanted from her, he decided to fire her and be done with it.
Ira Steven Behr was PISSED after he found out.

I didn't suffer. Not even a little bit.

Okay, but others who really liked his style of music did.

Based on?

How Enterprise ended up floundering so hard compared to (TNG/DS9/VOY)

Bob Justman was sixty, he was burned out.

That sucked for us, we all lost out.

 

[Firebird]

Bob Justman was sixty, he was burned out.

I don't think it was just Bob's age that made him leave the show. Gene's insipid lawyer caused so much shit behind-the-scenes before the WGA banned him from the lot that Justman was the latest in a long line of Trek stalwarts that got pushed out by the end of season 1, including David Gerrold and D.C. Fontana.

 

[BillJ]

Ira Steven Behr was PISSED after he found out.

And? Guess who the boss was?

Okay, but others who really liked his style of music did.

No one suffered. Seriously. Not even a little bit.

How Enterprise ended up floundering so hard compared to (TNG/DS9/VOY)

That tends to happen. It is called diminishing returns. Should probably look it up. It happens to pretty much every property out there.

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

And? Guess who the boss was?

But given how high up Ira Steven Behr was along with how much he contributed to Trek, he still has sway & clout.

Enough that Rick Berman was VERY AFRAID of Ira's anger that he went around his back.

No one suffered. Seriously. Not even a little bit.

Whatever

That tends to happen. It is called diminishing returns. Should probably look it up. It happens to pretty much every property out there.

It was a sad end to Trek.