That is explicitly what he was doing in TOS.
What are your controversial Star Trek opinions?
- Thread starter Amasov
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That is explicitly what he was doing in TOS.
To refuse transfer or promotion because of personal comfort is exactly individualistic.
If Joe is good at Stellar Cartography and I need him in another station or ship because his knowledge and expertise will benefit that assigned area then saying "no, I like my ship" is strange to me.
And this isn't about power or rank. It's about knowledge and experience she greatest contribution.
This. Chief Engineer would have a ton of administrative demands. I think Scott was still foggy headed after spending 75 years in a transporter buffer.
First of all, that's not a realistic expectation for the Captain of any ship, regardless the size. But even putting that aside, Lucero only commanded the ship for a handful of days, which isn't enough time to become the kind of expert you seem to think she should have been, even if she were an experienced Captain with a few other commands under her belt.
Again, she had only just arrived on the ship. There wasn't time to any kind of investigation, at least not within official guidelines. Really, if Edward had always been this much of a troublemaker than it should have been the ship's XO or Edward's direct superior (both of whom were presumably on the ship for a significant amount of time) to raise the red flag to Lucero when she came aboard. That they did not is not her fault. Regardless, she still recognized Edward was trouble in the time she was aboard, reprimanded him and arranged to have him removed from the ship. She did everything she was allowed to do under these circumstances. That Edward then caused the loss of the ship is not her fault even if she is the one who has to answer for it.
Now, I get it, leadership is all about responsibility and owning up to your fuck ups. That still doesn't change the fact you're putting unrealistic expectations and demands on Captain Lucero.
No. When Scotty was promoted to Captain in TSFS, he was assigned specifically to an engineering post, to get Excelsior's transwarp engine ready. Indeed, Admiral Morrow even says he'll now by a Captain of Engineering. Even in the later movies, Scotty continues to wear the engineering department color even while holding Captain's rank, which would mean his duties and responsibilities were strictly engineering related. Compare this to Spock who did wear the command color even though in the later movies he had basically become the science officer again. Indeed it can even be argued by TFF Scotty lost his position as Enterprise's second officer given in that movie Chekov is the one who takes command of the ship in Kirk and Spock's absence despite Scotty still being aboard and present on the bridge.
Huh? As chief engineer he would have to "manage other engineers." That's the whole point of that job. And he held that job for thirty years, twenty of which were before he was even promoted to Captain. If he didn't want to manage other engineers, why did he hold that job for so long?
Yes, he was Chief Engineer, so therefore he ran the department, but we know for sure that Scotty was an incredibly hands on Chief Engineer.
At a Captain-level rank, he would no longer be running a hands-on department on a ship, he would be managing the engineers who are managing departments of engineers...
To an extent, yes. It depends on the context.
If the transfer / promotion is because Starfleet needs this individual in a different position, to refuse... sure, that's an individualistic mindset.
If the transfer / promotion was because Starfleet just thought this person was doing a good job, and offered a new rank / role, sure it's still "individualistic", but it's really just that person serving as they feel they would be best suited.
Although at the same point, I don't think the Federation is a collectivist society at all. They clearly appreciate and celebrate individualism. It's not some dreary ultra-communist state where one must abandon all and obey, and only do what the state says. They just... in general... are trying to the best they can do better everyone as a whole, while also staying true to themselves.
Yes, the role would come with administrative duties. He ALSO was hands on whenever he wanted to be, and realistically from what we see, if the primary engineer actually DOING things.
It's never...
Kirk: "Scotty, I need warp drive!"
Scotty: "Aye captain, i'll assign an engineer to get on that and ensure he is properly supervised!"
Or
Kirk: "I need more power, Scotty!"
Scott: "Ensign Smith is givin' all she's got!"
Only because it's a TV show and they don't want to pay other actors if they don't have to. Anyone like that in the real world would be removed from a leadership position. Where I work, someone was actually removed from management training because he kept doing to work himself rather than telling others to do it.
Delegate delegate delegate.
It’s what a boss does.
It’s what a boss does.
I'm not expecting her to become a "Expert" of any sort.
But to recognize problems and prevent it from getting worst.
She accomplished the 1st Half of the problem by recognizing that the problem is there.
She didn't delve into it sooner or investigate it deeper by talking with Larkin more.
The way she talked to him made him rebel.
Her people skills with him specifically could be attributed to what caused him to go crazy and rogue by performing the genetic modifications on the Tribbles.
She did one half of the work, recognizing the problem.
She didn't do the other half, either securing the problem and locking him down properly.
Or have a genuine heart to heart talk with him and try to resolve the issue at a deeper level.
Either way, we know the end result, but her attitude with him along with the willingness to shovel him elsewhere didn't help the situation.
In fact, it exacerbated the situation until it became a catastrophe.
There's no way you can expect somebody to react to their superior officer in a positive way with the way she treated Larkin.
It's her job to manage people at the end of the day, and she failed by not handling the situation better.
How many StarFleet Captains have you heard of that loses a ship within days of becoming Captain due to something she could've dealt with?
It's not often that a Captain loses a ship that soon, it makes the news & history.
No, they say that but it's clearly highly individualistic.
True, and I'm the last one to defend lazy bosses. But there is an element of necessity to having the staff doing the work, as that's the only way they're going to learn the job. They won't if their superior is always stepping in to do the job for them.
She became aware of the problem when she learned he sent a letter of complaint to Starfleet Command accusing her of being stupid just because she disagreed with him. At that point he had already rebelled against her and she did everything protocol allowed her to do to deal with the situation. This is not a reflection of her people skills, but rather his arrogance.
Because at that stage she had no grounds to do so.
Edward was the one who launched a smear campaign against Lucero by reporting her as "stupid" to her superiors without justification. She was well within her rights to have such an officer removed from her ship for that, as that is a rather blatant form of disrespect. Such a person doesn't deserve a hear to heart to sort through the issues. The fact that Edward then escalated the situation afterwards is his own fault, not a reflection of Lucero's lack of leadership or people skills. She handled the situation about as well as she could within the guidelines of Starfleet regulations and protocols, as she did everything she was allowed to do.
Scotty held the rank of captain during the events of STV and STVI, when he remained incredibly hands-on, especially during TFF.
I always remember a quote from Kirk about how he was taught, but once again I couldn't remember wher eit was from
I asked ChatGPT
It pointed me to this thread
Kirk quote?
I have a partial quote floating around in my head, something along the lines of "They taught me how to fix an engine, then they gave me Scotty who could rebulid it while asleep, with one arm tied behind his back" The speech had mentions of how much better Spock and Bones were too I think...
www.trekbbs.com
Where some idiot asked about this exact quote a decade ago, and @T'Ressa Dax helpfully responded
I've completely forgotten my point
They cast him as Klingon crewmember. The head of security was cast with a slim blonde woman.
At 6’3” he’d be an average linebacker.
That's one word for it.
Who said lazy? Bosses gotta give staff jobs to do or what’s the point in the staff?
Would there really be a difference in responsibility between a CEO who's a captain and one who's a commander? Its the same job. All CEOs in Trek are hands on, from Trip on the small crew NX-01 to Geordie on the city in space 1701-D.
I'm trying to remember, didn't Scott demote himself while on Vulcan? I seem to remember him going back to commander's bars and I also recall the cast photos featuring him with captain on his sleeve and commander on his shoulder. (Or the other way around?)
(TVH had THE BEST publicity portraits. Including nice ones of the "Sarek Family" with Nimoy, Lenard, and Wyatt. Also one with Gene and Majel.)
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