What are your controversial Star Trek opinions?

[137th Gebirg]

And completely defanged them.as well, making sure the Voyager crew comes out on top. While I don't agree with much of TNG'S use of the Borg, it at least gave a measure of variation, either with isolated groups or exploring individuals.

Voyager had a loan Federation ship breaking in to Borg Fort Knox.

That always seemed to be the M.O. for Berman-era Trek. Introduce (or re-introduce, depending on the plot requirements) a new major adversary that is a larger-than-life force of nature. Then, as the episodes progress, the writers realized they painted themselves into a corner with how bad-ass they were and had to subsequently dumb them down in order for our heroes to win. Happened with the Borg; happened with the Dominion; happened to a lesser extent at various points in the franchise with the Klingons, Romulans, Ferengi, Cardassians, etc. Rinse-and-repeat. It also happened SO badly with the "Conspiracy" parasite bug-aliens that they never appeared again!

That's one of the reasons I loved LDS - they re-introduced the Pakleds, who started off as a gaggle of retarded monkeys on a moon-bounce trying to fuck a football into a somewhat surprising group of dangerous bad-asses (comparatively so to themselves, anyway). In the end, their profound stoopid still got the best of them, but it still felt like those writers recognized the trope/cliché of legacy Trek and turned it on its ass. They were really quite adept at doing that. God I miss that show...

 

[Nerys Myk]

PICARD season 3 gave people exactly what it said it would. No other arc driven season of this era has done

That was its problem. The connect the dots and paint by numbers pablum. All the ambition of a lazy uncle. About as challenging as a crossword with all the answers filled in.

 

[BillJ]

About as challenging as a crossword with all the answers filled in.

Wow. I don’t think anyone has been able to put my thoughts about CBS Trek into such perfect words.

 

[cooleddie74]

I will say this much, even PIC I liked or loved was usually lazy, and if not lazy a lot less creative than much of the Berman Era 24th century series output.

 

[Ray Hardgrit]

Funny how no one ever says DS9 overused and defanged the Cardassians.

 

[Farscape One]

And completely defanged them.as well, making sure the Voyager crew comes out on top. While I don't agree with much of TNG'S use of the Borg, it at least gave a measure of variation, either with isolated groups or exploring individuals.

Voyager had a loan Federation ship breaking in to Borg Fort Knox.

I couldn't agree with this more, or give enough likes to this post.

Especially "UNIMATRIX ZERO". It is an extremely strong contender for worst episode in the franchise because it...

1. Was the final nail in the coffin of being able to take Borg seriously or be a threat.

2. Completely undermines the horror and terror of assimilation. (Janeway plans to get assimilated ON PURPOSE and then shrug it off like it was she had a slight cold.)

3. Completely undermines the trauma of what Seven went through as a Borg, and also Picard. And every other assimilated person.

4. The slap in the face about Kim's rank.


So that undermines an entire species and TWO lead characters of VOY, plus another from TNG. That is some serious undermining this episode does.




For context on why I feel this way: I consider 'worst in the franchise' type episodes that damage terribly/irredeemably/permanently a lead/recurring character (like "VIRTUOSO" for The Doctor), an established race (the Borg, in this case), or a major cornerstone of a series (in DS9's case, Sisko as a great dad with "THE RECKONING" because that is one of the major core points of the show).

 

[Farscape One]

Funny how no one ever says DS9 overused and defanged the Cardassians.

Because they didn't.

 

[cooleddie74]

ENT is the sole Trek story since 1997 that made the Borg truly scary again, and it's a one-off prequel story wherein the drones' identity must remain unlearned or even buried so as to preserve 23rd and 24th century official contacts being so important and historic.

But damn, did that episode work. That's how you do Borg episodes, Paramount.

 

[BillJ]

Because they didn't.

Well, they had 800 million dead and their planet’s surface was obliterated. That seems pretty defanged to me.

 

[Shawnster]

Funny how no one ever says DS9 overused and defanged the Cardassians.

Because they didn't.

Indeed. They Cardassians were never portrayed as an unstoppable force the way the Borg were. In fact, in their introductory episode the Cardassians were depicted as slightly technologically inferior to the Federation.

 

[Tallguy]

That was its problem. The connect the dots and paint by numbers pablum. All the ambition of a lazy uncle. About as challenging as a crossword with all the answers filled in.

Wow. I don’t think anyone has been able to put my thoughts about CBS Trek into such perfect words.

I would have no problem with a By the Numbers Picard 3. In some ways that might be kind of nice. I know everybody back on the Enterprise D worked for me even though by that point the show was really pissing me off.

My complaint was that they couldn't get "by the numbers" right either. (And as we've pointed out earlier, you can do a LOT of by the numbers TNG without the Borg. Ugh.)

My biggest issues with Pic3 come from two places: Liam Shaw (almost across the board) and Character Conflicts (largely between Picard and Riker). "I'll follow you anywhere!" "You've KILLED US ALL!"

But I loved Worf. So much.

 

[BillJ]

Liam Shaw

Shaw was the only thing that made what I watched of season three worthwhile.

 

[137th Gebirg]

Shaw was fucking AWESOME!

 

[Farscape One]

Well, they had 800 million dead and their planet’s surface was obliterated. That seems pretty defanged to me.

Defanged Borg and defanged Cardassians are a completely different thing.

I can still respect the Cardassians and they are still interesting. The Borg... I can't respect them nor do I find them interesting.


Plus, they were introduced in wildly different ways. The Cardassians... a militaristic and authoritarian power, but not undefeatable. They were clever and calculating. They would get beat, but not easily. And they did come back stronger when they joined the Dominion. And while they did get beat in the end, it also was a HUGE cost between THREE major Alpha Quadrant powers.

The Borg... a force of nature that took the power of Q to save the Enterprise. And luck helped them the second time. (And at a cost of Wolf 359.) Then they get easier and easier to beat, until a single Starfleet ship, with zero backup and 1/3 the size and power of the Enterprise, beats them again and again and again. Instead of a fleet or the entire Alpha Quadrant taking down the Borg, a race even Q said to not provoke...it just took 1 ship.


For my money, it's very clear to see which was actually defanged.

 

[Ray Hardgrit]

Good points about the Borg and Cardassians. It really seems like the Borg's introduction episodes set them apart from the other alien races in Star Trek, permanently. People don't necessarily want them to be anything other than a near unstoppable threat to be defeated, and when they stopped living up to their hype viewers were done with them. They are the only alien race that can be truly defanged, because they are nothing but the enemy.

 

[Tallguy]

Shaw was the only thing that made what I watched of season three worthwhile.

I hear that. A lot. But I didn't get it.

At the beginning when he was the guy calling Picard and Riker on their "We'll just borrow your ship" BS? Sure. But there was nothing about this guy that seemed like he would have been given a ship. He is not likeable enough to get by on charm nor competent enough to be able to be a jerk but always makes the right decisions. (And frankly, I wanted to see the latter.)

 

[fireproof78]

Funny how no one ever says DS9 overused and defanged the Cardassians.

Because they didn't.

One need only see the introduction of each to understand how one was defanged and the other was not.

 

[BillJ]

I think the Borg were brought into Voyager to give Janeway a believable* adversary across 4 seasons and 45,000 in-universe light years. Like most things some of it worked, some of it didn’t.

*Believable in a Trek/space opera kind of way.

 

[BillJ]

If anything is guilty of defanging the Borg, it is Star Trek: First Contact.

 

[Farscape One]

I hear that. A lot. But I didn't get it.

At the beginning when he was the guy calling Picard and Riker on their "We'll just borrow your ship" BS? Sure. But there was nothing about this guy that seemed like he would have been given a ship. He is not likeable enough to get by on charm nor competent enough to be able to be a jerk but always makes the right decisions. (And frankly, I wanted to see the latter.)

For one thing, Shaw actually kept tabs on the status of his crew. In "Seventeen Seconds", he makes it a point to relieve all the officers on the bridge and get rest and recharge because they had been working nonstop for a long time.

That's actually something we rarely saw in the franchise. He knows that a tired bridge can make fatal mistakes. (One of the very few other examples in ST on why this is important: Riker in Engineering before they encounter the Borg, it's clear everyone is beat, but Shelby wanted to keep going with Data. He didn't want the crew to be 'fighting the Borg while fighting their own fatigue', which is why he dismissed everyone.)

That's a good mark of leadership, not overusing your resources. (Like your crew.)