No matter how much it bothers you, Discovery was a success for CBS. You can’t take it away from the people who worked on it, nor its fans.
It is kinda sad watching you try to discredit it. Just ignore it, like I do.
What are your controversial Star Trek opinions?
- Thread starter Amasov
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No matter how much it bothers you, Discovery was a success for CBS. You can’t take it away from the people who worked on it, nor its fans.
It is kinda sad watching you try to discredit it. Just ignore it, like I do.
I do ignore it, haven't done any rewatches at all except certain clips on Youtube. To each their own.
If Paramount considered Discovery a failure:No matter how much it bothers you, Discovery was a success for CBS. You can’t take it away from the people who worked on it, nor its fans.
It is kinda sad watching you try to discredit it. Just ignore it, like I do.
1) It never would’ve gone five seasons.
2) CBS All Access would never have survived the transition to Paramount+
3) We would never have gotten any of the follow-up series of Picard, SNW, etc
Like, to consider the show any kind of failure is a logical fallacy and I just don’t get why some keep beating that dead targ.
Proving that Kirk never had parents because he never mentioned them once in the Prime timeline.
Where the hell did Scotty get a nephew? He never mentioned a sister. Or a brother. Let's not start on Demora Sulu.
How much does an episode of Grey's Anatomy cost compared to an episode of Disco? Or SNW?
And are we really citing longevity equals success on a Star Trek board? Three seasons. BARELY.
"The Measure Of A Man" is DUMB. The trial should never happen in the first place because Starfleet had already acknowledged Data's status of a sentient and sapient being when he had been admitted into the academy. The alternative is that talking paperweights could become officers too, which is what that episode implies. 
Mind you, Data as 2nd officer sometimes assumes command of Starfleets most prestigious starship on top of that.
Being man-made does very obviously not rule out sentience, while humans/ organic beings are essentially machines composed of "soft" materials. When Riker turns Data off, everyone is shocked and baffled as if he presents some ingenious, nearly irrefutable evidence or some bullshit. Picard is like, "He almost convinced me" totally ignoring organics can also be "deactivated" and altered in several ways. During Picard's torture in Cardassian captivity he is implanted with a device allowing anyone to cause him physical pain at the press of a button. Does that make Picard an object or pet without rights? What about cyborgs like Airiam and Rutherford, are they less? I do not think so.
Moreover, androids like Data are much harder to manipulate unless you are Soong or Lore with inside knowledge. He is the only one able to resist those energy beings from "Clues," he cannot be assimilated by the Borg... Laforge gets brainwashed at one point leading him to commit an assassination attempt.
In my head canon interpretation Riker is the hero in this story. He deliberately brings forward a stupid argument easy to debunk, but unfortunately, Picard plus pretty much everyone else do not get it due to a Q prank.
Besides, Riker being forced to represent Maddox seems odd.
Mind you, Data as 2nd officer sometimes assumes command of Starfleets most prestigious starship on top of that.
Being man-made does very obviously not rule out sentience, while humans/ organic beings are essentially machines composed of "soft" materials. When Riker turns Data off, everyone is shocked and baffled as if he presents some ingenious, nearly irrefutable evidence or some bullshit. Picard is like, "He almost convinced me" totally ignoring organics can also be "deactivated" and altered in several ways. During Picard's torture in Cardassian captivity he is implanted with a device allowing anyone to cause him physical pain at the press of a button. Does that make Picard an object or pet without rights? What about cyborgs like Airiam and Rutherford, are they less? I do not think so.
Moreover, androids like Data are much harder to manipulate unless you are Soong or Lore with inside knowledge. He is the only one able to resist those energy beings from "Clues," he cannot be assimilated by the Borg... Laforge gets brainwashed at one point leading him to commit an assassination attempt.
In my head canon interpretation Riker is the hero in this story. He deliberately brings forward a stupid argument easy to debunk, but unfortunately, Picard plus pretty much everyone else do not get it due to a Q prank.
Besides, Riker being forced to represent Maddox seems odd.
As we’ve seen in the real world, these things can turn on a dime.
Regarding "Clues"..."The Measure Of A Man" is DUMB. The trial should never happen in the first place because Starfleet had already acknowledged Data's status of a sentient and sapient being when he had been admitted into the academy. The alternative is that talking paperweights could become officers too, which is what that episode implies.
Mind you, Data as 2nd officer sometimes assumes command of Starfleets most prestigious starship on top of that.
Being man-made does very obviously not rule out sentience, while humans/ organic beings are essentially machines composed of "soft" materials. When Riker turns Data off, everyone is shocked and baffled as if he presents some ingenious, nearly irrefutable evidence or some bullshit. Picard is like, "He almost convinced me" totally ignoring organics can also be "deactivated" and altered in several ways. During Picard's torture in Cardassian captivity he is implanted with a device allowing anyone to cause him physical pain at the press of a button. Does that make Picard an object or pet without rights? What about cyborgs like Airiam and Rutherford, are they less? I do not think so.
Moreover, androids like Data are much harder to manipulate unless you are Soong or Lore with inside knowledge. He is the only one able to resist those energy beings from "Clues," he cannot be assimilated by the Borg... Laforge gets brainwashed at one point leading him to commit an assassination attempt.
In my head canon interpretation Riker is the hero in this story. He deliberately brings forward a stupid argument easy to debunk, but unfortunately, Picard plus pretty much everyone else do not get it due to a Q prank.
Besides, Riker being forced to represent Maddox seems odd.
Data does save the day by keeping the secret. Ironically, though, Data being immune to the Paxans' 'wormhole' and other stuff is what caused that situation to begin with. They would have done to the crew what they did to countless others and nothing would have happened. The Enterprise wouldn't have almost been destroyed TWICE. So he was the cause AND the solution of the incident at the same time.
Regarding his "immunity" to the Borg...
I don't think he's immune. If you look at how quickly the Borg were able to alter and assimilate parts of the Enterprise-E, technology is not immune to their nanoprobes. ("REGENERATION" from ENT also shows this.) It was the Borg Queen herself who didn't want him assimilated, but rather convinced to work with her.
No one loves Data more than I do, but to say he is harder to manipulate than humanoids has been shown to be false. He can still be taken over, but what makes him worse is shown in "Brothers"... a single person was able to completely take over a Galaxy class ship and lock the captain and everyone else out, easily and quickly. To do the same with humanoids, you'd need a bunch of people to pull it off. And it likely won't be as fast as what Data did.
I’m pretty sure Spock could pull it off.
Fair point about Spock. But what he did in "THE MENAGERIE, PART I" was more subtle with a taped voice of Kirk telling the crew Spock was in command and he did have the help of the Talosians (with the illusion version Commodore in the shuttle and trial). Data actually took over the ship's systems, plus he was able to mimic Picard's voice instantly and used it to create orders and the ridiculously long password on the fly, while Spock would have had to piece together a pre-planned voice recording of Kirk.
So while I agree Spock or someone like him could do it, it would not be as easy or as quick as how Data did it.
Absolutely. We've seen Supreme Court rulings reversed. We've seen Amendments passed and repealed. Putting Data on trial to defend his right to say no, despite having been accepted in the past by Starfleet and the Federation as a being with free will, was one of the more realistic aspects of the episode.
Spock did it with finesse, Data with brute force. Both accomplished their goals.
Thinking deeply about Star Trek: Discovery, they should have began it earlier. Let's say around 2235+-, with the breaking of the time barrier...
A twenty fold increase in travel speed, would have been a game changer for the Federation...
This would have explained much, especially why, in 'Where No Man Has Gone Before ' original monolog was so important.
No Constitution class ships, Constitution like, but crude.
And maybe revist Star Trek: Voyager
.
A twenty fold increase in travel speed, would have been a game changer for the Federation...
This would have explained much, especially why, in 'Where No Man Has Gone Before ' original monolog was so important.
No Constitution class ships, Constitution like, but crude.
And maybe revist Star Trek: Voyager
.
The overexposure of the Borg is what happened when a series (TNG--that was as about as interesting / exciting as TMP overdosing on a warehouse filled with sleeping pills) needed to mainline great concepts to save itself. TNG's showrunners knew it needed to milk the one, non-sleep inducing concept to death in order to keep viewers from dozing off to the adventures of Captain Tea-drinker, Mr. Adjust-a-Shirt or the "advanced" Mannequin (oh, please--the Old Ones' android technology was far more advanced than Data). From there. it was Borg, Borg, Borg and more Borg, and it will never end.
That's literally the NX-01's "warp five engine" schtick though.
Though I do agree that the gap between ENT and TOS is fertile ground for a series, even ignoring the Romulan War. Just don't link it too closely to any existing show. Not everyone has to be each other's father's brother's nephew's cousin's former roommate.
They were in four stories.
This.
“Q, Who”, “Best of Both Worlds”, “I, Borg”.
I am absolutely whiffing on the fourth. Over 178 episodes, that is a pretty small output.
The "Descent" 2-parter with Lore. Don't feel bad. It was forgettable.
The only thing good about that episode pair was that bad-ass asymmetrical Borg ship. IMO, of course.
The only thing good about that episode pair was that bad-ass asymmetrical Borg ship. IMO, of course.
Had to look it up. Can’t believe I forgot “Descent”.
Colony scooping mentioned in "The Neutral Zone."
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