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The Star Trel Cartoon. Do you consider it canon?

Is the Star Trek Cartoon canon?


  • Total voters
    66
Now, before all the canon police and other nerds go racing to copy the dictionary.com definitions for a silly idiot like me, let me explain.

[Sighs.]

What you've described is not canon, but rather personal continuity.


That horse you are on must be high on crack because you missed the entire point of what I was trying to say.

If you wish to use the word "canon" in the privacy of your own mind, well ... no one's gonna stop you. Between your ears, ghost can mean chicken and bread Beelzebub. But out here where people communicate with each other, agreement on the meaning of terms is important ... "canon" has a distinct definition in this context ... and that ain't it.
Thanks for the vocab lesson. May I use the restroom?

I KNOW what canon means, thankyouverymuch. I see where you are coming from. Please, go back and re-read my initial post in this thread and see if you can read between the lines.
 
That horse you are on must be high on crack because you missed the entire point of what I was trying to say.

He got what you were trying to say, he was pointing out that what you described is your personal continuity, it is not, by the definition of the word, the canon. It's got nothing to do with being the 'canon police' and saying "TAS isn't part of the story, because I say it isn't and I'm right", it has to do with the meaning of the concept.
You claim we decree TAS to be non-canonical because we don't want it to be, or it isn't to us. This is not the case, the definition of canon has been given by Paramount, and, it being their show, stands. It has nothing to do with us wanting or not wanting something to be canonical.

No-one is telling you what you can or cannot consider part of the story. You snap at us to read your post properly; try reading the other posts properly - no-one is saying you can't have personal continuities, you can't have your own internal Trek story. I do, I suspect every fan who cares enough to does, and most wouldn't match what Paramount has dictated. But these choices, an entirely personal matter, have absolutely no bearing on what is included in the canon of Star Trek.
We used a religious analogy upthread, let me do so again. If you go into TNZ you will see that I have wildly differing views on the importance, interpretation, and relevance of certain bits of the Bible to other posters. But the canon of the Bible doesn't alter based on my opinion. My personal beliefs and experience of the Bible alters. Something cannot be part of a canon from 'your own personal perspective' - the definition of the word excludes that possibility. To continue the analogy, it's like saying 'from my personal perspective, the book of Luke is not part of the bible'. Now you may chose to ignore Luke, to believe that for whatever reason it isn't worthy of inclusion, but go look in a Bible in the shop - Luke's still there. Your personal continuity (if you like) of the Bible has changed, the canon has not. Huge, gaping difference between the two.
 
Great question, and a great thread.

I think this is a case where personal continuity has to take some degree of preference. TAS, IMHO, straddles the canon/non-canon worlds. ENT did a lot to bring TAS closer to canon than anything else, although TOS-R is doing a fair bit of work in this regard as well. It does get a smile to see T'Pol mention her pet Sehlat, or to see a freighter that was clearly modeled from TAS in TOS-R. That having been said, when I watch TAS, it does not feel like canonical Star Trek to me, so I just lean on my personal continuity, so to speak, and enjoy the show for what it is.

Personally, I do not even know if the CGI bits in TOS-R should be considered canon!
 
You know, you guys are right.

However.

Outside of me, Paramount can say whatever they want. I'm not going to get hung up over the differing meanings of words on the basis that it will dictate what is part of the story and what isn't. That's taking things, far, far too seriously. I get that Paramount dictates what is canon and what isn't. I get that really, I'm talking about personal continuity. The point I've tried to make though is that I don't care about it. For me, my personal continuity is my canon.

It will mean something completely different to you. Swell. It should. But seriously, this hangup over the definition not only detracts from the enjoyment of the show but really just creates issues where there need not be any. Who the hell cares if TAS is or isn't canon? Why is it such a big fucking deal that there's one contingent of fans who consider it so, or another that does not?
 
Yes, I consider TAS to be the fourth season of Star Trek. Like previous posters have said, elements of TAS have been making thier way into the other various Trek incarnations and that just cements my views on the subject.
 
I'm late in the debate but I'll say it's canon to me. There are as many inconsistencies as in the other series so I don't see why it shouldn't be.
 
If Paramount made it... it is canon... for Paramount owned the franchise for years, lest we forget that.
I personally don't care about the nit-picking either. Splitting a hair is taking something small and insignificant and trying to bisect it to make it sound important. TAS was the first Trek I ever got to watch at the time they were originally aired... I loved it and therefore it is canon. :vulcan:
 
I think the general problem is that we are often left trying to reconcile issues raised that do not fit in with the rest of Star Trek. I.e. some elements of ST V are very hard to fit in with the rest of Star Trek, but that movie is considered canon (for better or for worse).

I always think a red flag should be pinned around anything that seems very different from what has been established, and is then never seen, used, or mentioned again i.e. the "Life Support Belts" in TAS, or Sybok for that matter!
 
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If Paramount made it... it is canon...

Paramount didn't make it.

TAS was a co-production of Filmation Studios and Norway Corp. for NBC-TV. Paramount was only its distributor after its first run, and inherited the rights after Filmation closed down (and was sold to Hallmark?) in 1989.
 
This is partly to Mutarada and partly to the huge number of other people in the thread who don't understand why there are canon nazis in the world.

Look, I enjoy TAS. Personally, in my own Star Trek universe, TAS is TOS Season 4. In fact, in my own mental Trek universe (what's being referred to as a "personal continuity" in this thread), quite a few things happened that aren't part of canon. For instance, Greg Cox's Eugenics Wars saga, or the last five books of the A Time To... series. Heck, my personal continuity even includes "Our Billion Year Mission" [SNW... VII, I think] and the latest New Voyages episode. Personally, I prefer "Strangers From The Sky" to First Contact. That's fine. It's good. It is every fan's right to define for himself what he does and does not accept about a fictional universe.

So, everyone ought to leave it at that, right? Everyone gets to define his own Trek universe, so shove off and stop being such a jerk about it. Why do we need a set canon, anyway? It's a sentiment echoed over and over again in this thread.

Thing is, for viewers, who merely view and consume various Trek media, it's all well and good to have your own continuity. More power to you. But for those of us who actually produce some of this stuff--I mean fanfic writers and fan film producers, mainly--a clear, sharply defined, and limited-scope canon is vital to maintaining a consistent universe. That means there must be a central authority who defines canon (else all is chaos). That authority is generally recognized to be Paramount, which, for better or for worse, is the seat of Star Trek canon as surely as the College of Cardinals is the seat of the Roman canon. For the sake of keeping Star Trek even remotely comprehensible, we, the producers (from the lowliest fanfic'er right up to Abrams & Co.) must accept their guidelines. Violations of the canon can be made, and can be made quite often, in fact, but the actual body of work recognized as canon must remain sacrosanct. That list of recognized works in the canon can be altered only after careful consideration and recognition by Paramount, or the last forty years of Star Trek will collapse into a jumbled insanity overnight.

Imagine, for a moment, if we abolished the canon entirely. All Trek writing of any sort is canon if you want it to be. Suddenly, we have some stories endorsing the "Strangers from the Sky" First Contact narrative, and some endorsing the one from Star Trek VIII. The FASA roleplayers suddenly have an equal claim to legitimacy as every television series. Enterprise and Voyager will be canonized and decanonized and recanonized and redecanonized on the whim of writer-producer-fans. Now, granted... this already is a pretty fair representation of the online Star Trek world, a reality of various contradictory canons permenantly at odds with one another. However, we all know which canon is "real". Can you imagine what life would be like if all this insanity leaked onto the television series? If, all of a sudden, half a dozen historical narratives of the universe were being endorsed at any given time? If some characters were alive, then dead, then had never been born, then were suddenly on the main cast?

It would be total madness. Trek would become gibberish, the canon reduced to mob rule, a hundred thousand fanboys jockeying for their own vision to become the most recognized and thereby rule for a day.

So, yes. We all have our personal continuities. And canon itself can be bent, reshaped, broken, thrown out the window for a short time, even. I'm a big supporter of the new movie, for instance. But threads like this, that purport to declare a something part of the officially recognized Trek universe not by seeking official recognition but by the fiat of the people... it may be democratic, but it's also a dangerous attitude for the fandom to adopt.

My $0.04. Forgive me if I overstated anything.
 
This is partly to Mutarada and partly to the huge number of other people in the thread who don't understand why there are canon nazis in the world.

Look, I enjoy TAS. Personally, in my own Star Trek universe, TAS is TOS Season 4. In fact, in my own mental Trek universe (what's being referred to as a "personal continuity" in this thread), quite a few things happened that aren't part of canon. For instance, Greg Cox's Eugenics Wars saga, or the last five books of the A Time To... series. Heck, my personal continuity even includes "Our Billion Year Mission" [SNW... VII, I think] and the latest New Voyages episode. Personally, I prefer "Strangers From The Sky" to First Contact. That's fine. It's good. It is every fan's right to define for himself what he does and does not accept about a fictional universe.

So, everyone ought to leave it at that, right? Everyone gets to define his own Trek universe, so shove off and stop being such a jerk about it. Why do we need a set canon, anyway? It's a sentiment echoed over and over again in this thread.

Thing is, for viewers, who merely view and consume various Trek media, it's all well and good to have your own continuity. More power to you. But for those of us who actually produce some of this stuff--I mean fanfic writers and fan film producers, mainly--a clear, sharply defined, and limited-scope canon is vital to maintaining a consistent universe. That means there must be a central authority who defines canon (else all is chaos). That authority is generally recognized to be Paramount, which, for better or for worse, is the seat of Star Trek canon as surely as the College of Cardinals is the seat of the Roman canon. For the sake of keeping Star Trek even remotely comprehensible, we, the producers (from the lowliest fanfic'er right up to Abrams & Co.) must accept their guidelines. Violations of the canon can be made, and can be made quite often, in fact, but the actual body of work recognized as canon must remain sacrosanct. That list of recognized works in the canon can be altered only after careful consideration and recognition by Paramount, or the last forty years of Star Trek will collapse into a jumbled insanity overnight.

Imagine, for a moment, if we abolished the canon entirely. All Trek writing of any sort is canon if you want it to be. Suddenly, we have some stories endorsing the "Strangers from the Sky" First Contact narrative, and some endorsing the one from Star Trek VIII. The FASA roleplayers suddenly have an equal claim to legitimacy as every television series. Enterprise and Voyager will be canonized and decanonized and recanonized and redecanonized on the whim of writer-producer-fans. Now, granted... this already is a pretty fair representation of the online Star Trek world, a reality of various contradictory canons permenantly at odds with one another. However, we all know which canon is "real". Can you imagine what life would be like if all this insanity leaked onto the television series? If, all of a sudden, half a dozen historical narratives of the universe were being endorsed at any given time? If some characters were alive, then dead, then had never been born, then were suddenly on the main cast?

It would be total madness. Trek would become gibberish, the canon reduced to mob rule, a hundred thousand fanboys jockeying for their own vision to become the most recognized and thereby rule for a day.

So, yes. We all have our personal continuities. And canon itself can be bent, reshaped, broken, thrown out the window for a short time, even. I'm a big supporter of the new movie, for instance. But threads like this, that purport to declare a something part of the officially recognized Trek universe not by seeking official recognition but by the fiat of the people... it may be democratic, but it's also a dangerous attitude for the fandom to adopt.

My $0.04. Forgive me if I overstated anything.

No you pretty much nailed it on the head. 4 cents well spent if you ask me.
 
Wowbagger you're not describing nothing that isn't already going on: Everyone, in some way or another, trying to slice off a bit of the pie and make their portion more "real" than the other guys. Even without an "official" canon policy, the shows and movies will always trump fanfic, RPG, and novels in the minds of the majority of the finds.
 
Elements from TAS have been finding their way into other Trek shows for awhile now. That alone makes it canon.

Agreed. IIRC, the only reason it was decanonized was because Roddenberry had some pissing contest with D.C. Fontana. It had all the original cast voices and names, and as previously mentioned, many TAS things reappeared in later series. Had Enterprise seen a 5th season, we would have seen the return of the Kzinti.

Canon.
 
Elements from TAS have been finding their way into other Trek shows for awhile now. That alone makes it canon.

Agreed. IIRC, the only reason it was decanonized was because Roddenberry had some pissing contest with D.C. Fontana. It had all the original cast voices and names, and as previously mentioned, many TAS things reappeared in later series. Had Enterprise seen a 5th season, we would have seen the return of the Kzinti.

Canon.
:techman:
 
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