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Why Did the DS9 Technical Manual Sell So Poorly?

I enjoyed the Ds9 Manual.

But most of it was already on the Net.

Some of it did add to the TNG Manual to be fair.

But most of the book wasn't a tech manual but just DS9 fluff.
 
As others have said, I think the days of the Trek nonfiction books are largely over, because of the vast, vast, vast amount of material that's available online for free.

That said, I thought the DS9 tech manual was a very nice volume, and it's sitting on a shelf somewhere in my house.
 
As others have said, I think the days of the Trek nonfiction books are largely over, because of the vast, vast, vast amount of material that's available online for free.

I wonder why that might be true for "technical" works, but not fan fiction. In other words, there's a plethora of fan fiction online, but it doesn't seem to significantly impact the sales of Trek fiction. Why does this not hold true for tech works?
 
Why does this not hold true for tech works?

Just from my own point of view it's because the "The Next Generation: Technical Manual" covers every thing some one needs to know about a Starship, Starship systems and Starship operations.

A book like the DS9 manual was basically just good for the pictures and how Deep Space Nine was laid out. Same with the Runabouts and the Defiant. There ws very little "new " info in it.
 
I wonder why that might be true for "technical" works, but not fan fiction. In other words, there's a plethora of fan fiction online, but it doesn't seem to significantly impact the sales of Trek fiction. Why does this not hold true for tech works?

I'd also say it's a matter of quality. The majority of the nonfiction material on the 'net - there's not really a lot of variance in the quality, but rather the level of detail.

When it comes to fanfiction and professional fiction... well, that's a different story. Anybody and everybody can and does write fanfiction. Some of these people (And I include myself in this one. Hopefully I'm being accurate) are good-to-great writers who, for whatever reason, haven't gone professional. They understand outlines, drafts, story hooks, genre conventions, grammar, spelling, how to tell a story - the whole nine yards.

Then you have people with talent that's unrefined. They may have grammar and spelling problems, and are just figuring out how to balance a story between plot and characters. They can still produce good stories, but they'll be enormously better once they've developed that.

And then you have the largest group. These last people no doubt mean well, but frankly...

Well, they suck. They write characters that are Mary Sues, their stories are badly plotted, they make the same grammar mistakes over and over again (and never correct them), the list of all the things a writer shouldn't do goes on and on. And this last group does them.

That's why the sales of the fiction books aren't affected - their quality is consistent. Fanfiction's isn't.
 
I'm honestly not sure if the presence of the Net is that huge of a factor, though it is a factor. You can easily find info on Star Wars online, yet that hasn't prevented the success of technical resources like the Essential Guides. They've done well enough to allow updated versions of half of them (at least) to be published. Perhaps part of the problem is simply that Paramount is less skilled at marketing than Lucasfilm is?
 
I'm honestly not sure if the presence of the Net is that huge of a factor, though it is a factor. You can easily find info on Star Wars online, yet that hasn't prevented the success of technical resources like the Essential Guides. They've done well enough to allow updated versions of half of them (at least) to be published. Perhaps part of the problem is simply that Paramount is less skilled at marketing than Lucasfilm is?

100% AGREED!!!!!

I think the net has become an easy excuse.

The bottom line is the bulk of Technical Material that has actually been liscensed pretty poorly produced and presented.

I was thinking of Starship Spotter. Half that lousy book was idiotic wireframe models of existing models.

Who gives a damn about wireframes??!??

I these are two of the big problems with Trek techical material:

1) Paramount has always been terrified that some of the stuff marketed would become more popular than the actual series and movies. So they load huge restrictions on what they will allow in print.

2) Because of this, the stuff like Starship Spotter is all rehashes of what we've seen 100 times onscreen.

Why not liscense someone to produce a technical manual or something like that about ships we have never seen in Star Trek yet. Or only heard their names mentioned in the background.

Something like a "Starship Recognition Manual" that includes not only the few onscreen ships but numerous others as well.
 
^ I was actually going to say, where the Star Wars stuff is concerned, that it's a very broad and diverse universe, and each new film introduced dozens of cultures and their own particular aesthetics and technologies. With Star Trek, because it is so much more localized, you inevitably get the same thing over and over again, which was one of the complaints about the DS9 book: that it repeated too much of what the TNG book had already illustrated.

Maybe a technical manual should not focus exclusively on the Federation and Starfleet, but tackle the many different cultures that have risen to prominence in the galaxy. Federation starships, yes, but also Klingon vessels, Cardassian ships, Borg cubes, Bajoran sail-ships, etc.

Fictitiously yours, Trent Roman
 
^ I was actually going to say, where the Star Wars stuff is concerned, that it's a very broad and diverse universe, and each new film introduced dozens of cultures and their own particular aesthetics and technologies. With Star Trek, because it is so much more localized, you inevitably get the same thing over and over again, which was one of the complaints about the DS9 book: that it repeated too much of what the TNG book had already illustrated.

Maybe a technical manual should not focus exclusively on the Federation and Starfleet, but tackle the many different cultures that have risen to prominence in the galaxy. Federation starships, yes, but also Klingon vessels, Cardassian ships, Borg cubes, Bajoran sail-ships, etc.

Fictitiously yours, Trent Roman

I agree.

Of course, the response when mentioning this I always got was

"Why would anyone want to see them or read about them if they weren't part of Trek episodes or movies?"

It seems that so many people are blind to the possibilities of expanding the Trek universe.

Instead, they insist that liscensed products be simple regurgitations of Trek episodes.
 
Indeed. One of my constant beefs with Trek, in various forms of media, is how poorly just the main races have been fleshed out. If any attempts have been made to add more content for, say, the Andorians or the Tellarites, they have almost always been done either by fans or in a non-canon media (books etc.) And they're perfectly fine for the most part, they contain no contradictions with the canon material. And yet the Essential Guide to Aliens gives full cultural backgrounds for characters who, if not just background extras, hardly had any screen time at all (a good example is the Kubaz spy - the snout-nosed guy in ANH who tells the sandtroopers what hangar the Falcon is in). :p

I've sometimes felt that the problem may be slavish obedience to Gene's "no tie-ins are canon" policy. That policy was fine when it was originally implemented, but it no longer serves as the protective armor it was designed to be. The popularity of the franchise, though falling now, has been sufficient enough that the series will always be remembered. The policy is obsolete, in my view.
 
Indeed. One of my constant beefs with Trek, in various forms of media, is how poorly just the main races have been fleshed out. If any attempts have been made to add more content for, say, the Andorians or the Tellarites, they have almost always been done either by fans or in a non-canon media (books etc.) ...

I've sometimes felt that the problem may be slavish obedience to Gene's "no tie-ins are canon" policy. That policy was fine when it was originally implemented, but it no longer serves as the protective armor it was designed to be. The popularity of the franchise, though falling now, has been sufficient enough that the series will always be remembered. The policy is obsolete, in my view.

Err, huh? I don't understand what you're saying here. There's been plenty of development of Trek aliens in tie-in material, so there's certainly no "policy" inhibiting it there. And nobody involved with the actual shows has given a damn about obeying Roddenberry's canon memo since the day he died; references to the animated series, for instance, started getting worked into the show pretty much immediately (he died during the production of "Unification," which included references to Spock's backstory from "Yesteryear"). So there's no "policy" restricting anything there either.

And I don't get what the one has to do with the other; why would a statement about the status of tie-ins have any effect on the freedom of the people creating the shows themselves? Hell, that's the whole point of declaring tie-ins non-canonical: to give the writers of the actual core creation total freedom to create whatever they want rather than being beholden to something from a tie-in that only 1-2 percent of the show's audience will ever read.
 
Err, huh? I don't understand what you're saying here. There's been plenty of development of Trek aliens in tie-in material, so there's certainly no "policy" inhibiting it there. And nobody involved with the actual shows has given a damn about obeying Roddenberry's canon memo since the day he died; references to the animated series, for instance, started getting worked into the show pretty much immediately (he died during the production of "Unification," which included references to Spock's backstory from "Yesteryear"). So there's no "policy" restricting anything there either.

No, but none of that material counts in the eyes of Paramount. It's non-canon, which is the same as if it didn't exist. Why would someone be interested in writing a new Trek novel or manual if no fans will buy it and Paramount will consider it as "inferior" because it's a tie-in?

I was mainly complaining about the lack of canon development onscreen. ENT helped the Andorians, but many other Trek races that are supposedly major players are either woefully underused or have been written into a corner in some instances.

And I don't get what the one has to do with the other; why would a statement about the status of tie-ins have any effect on the freedom of the people creating the shows themselves? Hell, that's the whole point of declaring tie-ins non-canonical: to give the writers of the actual core creation total freedom to create whatever they want rather than being beholden to something from a tie-in that only 1-2 percent of the show's audience will ever read.
No. The original purpose of the policy was to protect the official media (TOS) as the prime source for Star Trek. It was to keep the staff from feeling beholden to some tie-in, but it was made at a time when the future of the series as a popular one was very much in doubt. Once TNG came along and helped make Trek into a powerful franchise, that was no longer the case. It gained a solid core of canon for the production staff to draw from, and there was far less likelihood that fans would trust a non-canon source over a canon one. Hence, the policy became obsolete and it's still in effect today, because nobody who took charge after Gene has particularly felt the need to change it. No one has said, "hey, maybe we can draw more fans in and make more money if we took tie-ins more seriously!"

And we can see the results. The only Trek books produced in any amount are novels, and Trek games (about the only other common media) have virtually dried up. Nobody wants to make them because nobody is convinced they can sell or appeal to fans. By contrast, Star Wars produces a range of non-novel books and still makes games and RPGs, and they sell. The fact that these products are considered official, and thus effectively canon until George Lucas or Lucasfilm directly says otherwise, is a huge factor in my view. Nobody who reads the EGs is worried that some producer will declare a given race's history can't count, because it's not in a movie.

The canon policy is a matter for another thread entirely, so I will leave it here. ;) But what it comes down to is that Paramount's marketing sucks, and that marketing is motivated in some degree by the fact that tie-in materials are not supposed to count in Star Trek's continuity.
 
You can easily find info on Star Wars online, yet that hasn't prevented the success of technical resources like the Essential Guides.

but... "Star Wars" is aimed at two demographics: older fans who grow old with SW and younger fans who followed the recent trilogy.

"Star Trek" hasn't had a new young demographic since TNG.

Also remember that once prosperous Dorling Kindersley Publishing UK went to the wall over its warehouses full of unsold "SW Episode I" tie-in non fiction material, and overspending on exclusive international licenses. The company was dissolved and the only thing that saved their "Essential Guides", "Incredible Cross-Sections", "Visual Dictionaries", etc was that other publishing companies bailed out what is now known as the "DK" imprint.

So it's a success now, but Dorling Kindersley UK found out how it should be done the hard way.
 
I'm honestly not sure if the presence of the Net is that huge of a factor, though it is a factor. You can easily find info on Star Wars online, yet that hasn't prevented the success of technical resources like the Essential Guides. They've done well enough to allow updated versions of half of them (at least) to be published. Perhaps part of the problem is simply that Paramount is less skilled at marketing than Lucasfilm is?
I would tend to agree with parts of this...

I'm not sure how much marketing plays into it, but I know that the "it's all online now" explanation doesn't seem consistent with the Star Wars counterexample, since (as you said) SW reference books continue to do well enough to be published and even updated with new editions.

(Similarly, the "bookstores aren't interested in keeping older tie-in titles in stock" explanation is belied by the fact that I can find fifteen-year-old Star Wars novels at bookstores fairly easily.)

There's some sort of disconnect there, from the perspective of some people, and I think that's why those answers aren't more satisfying.

I think what Unicron was trying to say further down about the difference in approaches has to do with the synergy that goes into SW tie-in products--a synergy that includes the reference works. If I pick up The Essential Guide to Characters, I'll see entries for Luke Skywalker and Darth Maul and Ki-Adi-Mundi, but I'll also see entries for Mara Jade and Darth Bane and Vima-Da-Boda. None of the Star Trek reference works, by design, integrate that kind of information from the novels or comics, and Unicron seemed to be saying that he found that limiting.
 
But the mismanagement by Last Unicorn and Decipher -- and the failures of their Trek RPGs in the marketplace -- may have killed the viability of a Star Trek RPG for years to come.

I'd just like to point out for the record as a fan of both these versions of the Trek game that there was nothing about either game in itself that was the problem. In both cases the problems were with the bean-counter side of the operation (LUGs general money troubles, and Decipher's utter inability to understand that its version was a runaway HIT for RPG sales while they were expecting CCG scale numbers).

BOTH games went out with a huge amount of unpublished material in the pipeline, and an enormous amount of clamoring for said material by the players of the game.
 
I'm not sure how much marketing plays into it, but I know that the "it's all online now" explanation doesn't seem consistent with the Star Wars counterexample, since (as you said) SW reference books continue to do well enough to be published and even updated with new editions.

As I said, the target demographic is much younger: children, teens, school libraries, plus adult collectors...

(Similarly, the "bookstores aren't interested in keeping older tie-in titles in stock" explanation is belied by the fact that I can find fifteen-year-old Star Wars novels at bookstores fairly easily.)
My local SF bookshop has plenty of 15 year old ST titles on the shelves. And regular bookshops get in ST backstock whenever a big ST event comes along.

If I pick up The Essential Guide to Characters, I'll see entries for Luke Skywalker and Darth Maul and Ki-Adi-Mundi, but I'll also see entries for Mara Jade and Darth Bane and Vima-Da-Boda. None of the Star Trek reference works, by design, integrate that kind of information from the novels or comics
But Star Wars is essentially only three - now six - movies, plus a few spin-offs. Star Trek is much more than that: five TV series (plus TAS) and eleven movies.
 
I'm not sure how much marketing plays into it, but I know that the "it's all online now" explanation doesn't seem consistent with the Star Wars counterexample, since (as you said) SW reference books continue to do well enough to be published and even updated with new editions.

As I said, the target demographic is much younger: children, teens, school libraries, plus adult collectors...
Perhaps that's what was meant by "marketing." There's no particular (apparent) reason why Star Trek couldn't/wouldn't be marketed to those same demographics, so failing to do so could be seen as a flaw.

(Similarly, the "bookstores aren't interested in keeping older tie-in titles in stock" explanation is belied by the fact that I can find fifteen-year-old Star Wars novels at bookstores fairly easily.)
My local SF bookshop has plenty of 15 year old ST titles on the shelves. And regular bookshops get in ST backstock whenever a big ST event comes along.
I'm not talking about Galaxy (which, whilst conveniently located in Sydney's CBD, is still a specialty store), but about something like a Dymocks, or (to use a Canadian counterpart) a Chapters/Indigo or (to use an American counterpart) a Borders.

The last Star Wars film came out several years ago, but the wider availability of older novel titles has been consistent, regardless of any SW "big event." Looking at that, I can see the argument that Lucasfilm is better at marketing their products, even if I can't explain how/why.

If I pick up The Essential Guide to Characters, I'll see entries for Luke Skywalker and Darth Maul and Ki-Adi-Mundi, but I'll also see entries for Mara Jade and Darth Bane and Vima-Da-Boda. None of the Star Trek reference works, by design, integrate that kind of information from the novels or comics
But Star Wars is essentially only three - now six - movies, plus a few spin-offs. Star Trek is much more than that: five TV series (plus TAS) and eleven movies.
I'm not saying that I can't see any reason for the difference, or even that one approach is inherently better than the other. If some fans prefer the fully-integrated Lucasfilm approach, however, they may be frustrated/unsatisfied by the difference, even if it makes sense for there to be one.
 
Perhaps that's what was meant by "marketing." There's no particular (apparent) reason why Star Trek couldn't/wouldn't be marketed to those same demographics, so failing to do so could be seen as a flaw.

DS9, VOY and ENT were being aired, first-run, at what...? After 10pm at night? (Here it was midnight.) It would be foolish for Pocket's marketing department to be targeting young kids with ST literary tie-ins. At least until ST XI comes out.

I'm not talking about Galaxy (which, whilst conveniently located in Sydney's CBD, is still a specialty store), but about something like a Dymocks, or (to use a Canadian counterpart) a Chapters/Indigo or (to use an American counterpart) a Borders.

Which is why I said, "And regular bookshops get in ST backstock whenever a big ST event comes along."

The last Star Wars film came out several years ago, but the wider availability of older novel titles has been consistent, regardless of any SW "big event." Looking at that, I can see the argument that Lucasfilm is better at marketing their products, even if I can't explain how/why.

Their current demographic has money to spend. They are young, single and affluent. The ST demographic is much older at the moment, and many have family responsibilities. Their spending on luxuries is reduced. It was seemingly last at a peak during TNG's final TV years up till "First Contact".

I'm not saying that I can't see any reason for the difference, or even that one approach is inherently better than the other. If some fans prefer the fully-integrated Lucasfilm approach, however, they may be frustrated/unsatisfied by the difference, even if it makes sense for there to be one.

If ST tried to do a fully integrated novels/comics/canon encyclopedic product it'd be too big to sell. The shops complained that the critically-acclaimed "DS9 Companion" was too chucky as it was!
 
No, but none of that material counts in the eyes of Paramount. It's non-canon, which is the same as if it didn't exist. Why would someone be interested in writing a new Trek novel or manual if no fans will buy it and Paramount will consider it as "inferior" because it's a tie-in?

There is not a single assumption in that paragraph that is correct. First of all, it is completely wrong that non-canonical material is required to be ignored or treated as nonexistent. If that were so, Sulu's first name of Hikaru, which originated in the novels, would never have been used onscreen in The Undiscovered Country. Non-canonical material isn't forbidden, it's just optional. It's something that the writers of canonical material are free to ignore or use as they see fit.

Second, as I said, Roddenberry's canon policy, the one that you and so many other fans assume is still binding on Paramount, has not been in effect since Roddenberry died. As I already said. The false fan assumption is that Roddenberry's memo, which defined canon in terms of exclusion, represents the standard film/TV industry approach to the issue of canon. Nothing could be further from the truth. People in film/TV don't have to worry about canon much, because it's a tautology: anything they're making is automatically canon, so what's to worry about? The Roddenberry memo only represents Roddenberry's (and Richard Arnold's) own personal view of things. He was very protective of his creation, and he was very threatened by the idea of sharing it with anyone else. So he found it necessary to define a strict dividing line between his view of Star Trek and everyone else's. But after he died, none of his successors felt the same need to draw such strict lines. They were too busy actually making the show.

Third, and trivially, ST licensing is now the purview of CBS Consumer Products, not Paramount.

Fourth, that last sentence has no connection to any reality I'm aware of. Why would anyone write a new novel if no fans will buy it? Huh???? You are aware, aren't you, that there's still a new novel being published every month? Heck, you're talking to someone who's written five Star Trek novels and has just sold a sixth, so obviously fans are buying them, from me and from plenty of other authors. IDW's Trek comics are also proving quite successful. So obviously non-canonical status does not prevent people from buying a book.

And I don't get what the one has to do with the other; why would a statement about the status of tie-ins have any effect on the freedom of the people creating the shows themselves? Hell, that's the whole point of declaring tie-ins non-canonical: to give the writers of the actual core creation total freedom to create whatever they want rather than being beholden to something from a tie-in that only 1-2 percent of the show's audience will ever read.
No. The original purpose of the policy was to protect the official media (TOS) as the prime source for Star Trek.

Yes, that was Gene Roddenberry's purpose, but he was just one man, and he died a long time ago, and his successors have not been bound by his personal need to treat everything as an adversarial relationship.

The official medial do not need to be "protected" as the prime source for Star Trek. They already are, automatically. The percentage of the audience that reads tie-in fiction is tiny, only 1-2%, as I said. The majority of people who watch the shows and movies don't even know there's tie-in fiction, let alone read it.

It was to keep the staff from feeling beholden to some tie-in, but it was made at a time when the future of the series as a popular one was very much in doubt. Once TNG came along and helped make Trek into a powerful franchise, that was no longer the case.

Your chronology is very wrong. Roddenberry's canon memo was issued in 1989, after TNG had already become a hit.

It gained a solid core of canon for the production staff to draw from, and there was far less likelihood that fans would trust a non-canon source over a canon one.

Fans' "trust" was never the issue. I mean, seriously -- "trust?" We're talking about a work of fiction. Something that's completely made up, a great big lie to entertain people. How does "trust" enter into that at all?


Hence, the policy became obsolete and it's still in effect today, because nobody who took charge after Gene has particularly felt the need to change it.

It hasn't been formally revoked, no, but that doesn't mean it's in effect. Nobody's bothered to enforce it since Roddenberry died, and it's been violated in practice many times. I've already given you examples of that, and I wish you'd actually read what I said, since I'm not going to repeat myself. Roddenberry's memo is a dead letter, except in the minds of various fans who don't understand how the industry works.

I mean, who do you assume is enforcing this imaginary "policy" right now? Do you think Paramount or CBS actually pays people money to work as traffic cops enforcing "canon law" for one of their countless franchises? Who the hell would have the time for that? No. No. Defining a show's canon is exclusively the responsibility of the executive producers of that show. After Roddenberry died, it was the job of Rick Berman and Michael Piller to decide that. Then Berman and Piller and Ira Behr, then Berman and Jeri Taylor and Behr, then Berman and Braga, then Berman and Braga and Coto. Each showrunner had his or her own definitions of what was canonical, and each successor changed those definitions. (Taylor considered her novels Mosaic and Pathways to be canonical, but Braga disregarded that and allowed them to be contradicted multiple times.) The definition of canon is purely up to the individual showrunner; nobody higher up has the time or the interest to enforce it.

Right now, the only people who have any say over the definition of ST canon are J. J. Abrams, Damon Lindelof, Roberto Orci, and Alex Kurtzman. And they are on record as saying that they consider the tie-in fiction to have some "canon value" and that they've incorporated references to various tie-in novels in the movie itself.

And we can see the results. The only Trek books produced in any amount are novels, and Trek games (about the only other common media) have virtually dried up. Nobody wants to make them because nobody is convinced they can sell or appeal to fans.

Again -- you're talking to a Trek novelist. I want to make them. Pocket pays me to make them. And fans buy them. Most fans don't care if they're "canon" or not. This isn't a classroom. You don't have to worry about getting the "right" materials to study from, since there's no test you have to pass. It doesn't matter what's "real" or not, whether there's a single uniform "truth" or not. It's fiction. It's about whether the story is enjoyable.

I'm not that familiar with Trek games, but from what I've seen, I think there's quite a sizeable audience for them; it's just that the companies making them have kind of a checkered history with them and they tend to do poorly. I can't imagine anyone refusing to buy a Trek game because a movie studio told them it wasn't "real" enough. I mean, how can you even discuss a game in such terms? By its very nature, a computer game depicts a different scenario, a different "reality," each time it's played. How can it possibly be defined as anything other than imaginary?

By contrast, Star Wars produces a range of non-novel books and still makes games and RPGs, and they sell. The fact that these products are considered official, and thus effectively canon until George Lucas or Lucasfilm directly says otherwise, is a huge factor in my view.

It's really sad that you feel you have to have some external authorization before you'll let yourself enjoy a work of make-believe.
 
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