Author Habits That Annoy You

[JonnyQuest037]

For example, "World Without End" (a novel from the 70's) shows Scotty and Uhura clearly flirting and having "something" between them. A notion that, back then, could have seemed absurd. But fast forward to "The Final Frontier", and it turns out it could have happened after all.

I personally thought it was absurd in TFF as well, but YMMV.

IIRC, the "Archive of Our Own" fan-fiction library uses the convention of "character/character" for tagging romantic pairings, and "character-character" for platonic ones.

So there is at least one milieu where "slash" (or, at least, the literal "/") has been generalized to any and all romantic pairings, regardless of heteronormativity or canonicity, but I don't think you'd actually call it, I don't know, "Worf Dax slash" verbally in conversation.

That's probably why I thought "slash" referred to any & all character pairings, not just same sex ones, then. I know I've at least heard of that site for fan fiction stuff. Thanks for the info!

 

[JD]

I usually don't care if an author uses the name of a friend of theirs in their story, because I don't know that friend and can't form an image in my head as to what that person looks like. But when an author uses the name "Roddenberry" as a character, that's completely different. As I mentioned before, this behavior takes me right out of the story (which I'm sure the author did not intend) all because they wanted to add some cutesy easter egg to an otherwise good story.

Now, my previous mention of the Errand of Fury trilogy was an egregious example of this. It was literally strewn everywhere throughout the books, and if I had to guess, if the books had actually been edited well (which they weren't), then perhaps the editor would have flagged this as being just too over-the-top. Luckily the second set of Ryan's books didn't have this problem and were edited far better.

I also recall another book (the title and author escapes me at the moment), where the writer inserted a scene where he used the characters of Dante and Randal from the Clerks movies in a 24th century setting. While it was humorous, as I'm a fan of those films, it still felt shoehorned in and didn't really have anything to do with the rest of the story. In that case, I think it's a matter of how important it is for an author to have 'fun' with their material, and adding something that feels tacked on just for the sake of adding an easter egg to their more serious story.

I'm the complete opposite when it comes to that kind of stuff, I get a quick laugh out if it or just an "oh I see what you did there" if it's more serious, but it doesn't really effect my overall enjoyment of the book.

 

[CaptainCalvinCat]

I'm the complete opposite when it comes to that kind of stuff, I get a quick laugh out if it or just an "oh I see what you did there" if it's more serious, but it doesn't really effect my overall enjoyment of the book.

Yup, same here. I'm like "Oh, that was clever, thanks for the joke and now let's continue with the story."

 

[Dukhat]

I'm the complete opposite when it comes to that kind of stuff, I get a quick laugh out if it or just an "oh I see what you did there" if it's more serious, but it doesn't really effect my overall enjoyment of the book.

Yup, same here. I'm like "Oh, that was clever, thanks for the joke and now let's continue with the story."

If it’s a single instance, it’s mildly annoying to me. If it’s strewn all over the story? That’s something that an editor should have totally red-flagged.

 

[CaptainCalvinCat]

If it’s a single instance, it’s mildly annoying to me. If it’s strewn all over the story? That’s something that an editor should have totally red-flagged.

Naah, even then, I'm like "Cool - this guy has some background knowledge." It doesn't take me out of the story. What *does*, is when a character, whom we know, reacts in a certain way, suddenly reacts OOC - and I don't care if that's in a fanfic or in a novel. I read a Detective Conan Fanfic one day, where Shinichi - supposed to be 17 years old - yelled "Because of you, my Ran is feeling ill". Naah, that's nothing, Shinichi would say, not even if he's pretending to be little Conan Edogawa.

 

[Dukhat]

Naah, even then, I'm like "Cool - this guy has some background knowledge." It doesn't take me out of the story.

We will agree to disagree about that. It’s one thing to have ‘background knowledge.’ It’s another thing to repeatedly hit you over the head with that knowledge.

What *does*, is when a character, whom we know, reacts in a certain way, suddenly reacts OOC - and I don't care if that's in a fanfic or in a novel. I read a Detective Conan Fanfic one day, where Shinichi - supposed to be 17 years old - yelled "Because of you, my Ran is feeling ill". Naah, that's nothing, Shinichi would say, not even if he's pretending to be little Conan Edogawa.

I don’t recall reading any Star Trek novels where people were acting out of character, other than:

1. Novels written during the start of a Trek series and the characters weren’t fleshed out in the show yet.

2. Non-Pocket Books Trek novels written by authors who might or might not have actually watched the show.

 

[Christopher]

But it's not like the job-interviews were the job-interviewer asks me "Mr. Cat, why are you the right man for the job? What do you do, if we don't hire you?".

It's an analogy. Analogies are not expected to be exact. It doesn't work the same way, but it's the same principle: You're applying to get hired. Pro fiction is a job. Fanfiction is a hobby. It's not a distinction that should be difficult to understand.

 

[CaptainCalvinCat]

We will agree to disagree about that. It’s one thing to have ‘background knowledge.’ It’s another thing to repeatedly hit you over the head with that knowledge.

Yup, let's agree to disagree.

I don’t recall reading any Star Trek novels where people were acting out of character, other than:

1. Novels written during the start of a Trek series and the characters weren’t fleshed out in the show yet.

2. Non-Pocket Books Trek novels written by authors who might or might not have actually watched the show.

Eh, I can at least name one moment of OOC-ness in recent novels: "Before dishonour", where Seven calls security-officers 'Idiots' - and where Janeway is not listening to Seven, who said 'Stay out of that borg-cube'. But this is the only critique, I have concerning that novel.

It's an analogy. Analogies are not expected to be exact. It doesn't work the same way, but it's the same principle: You're applying to get hired. Pro fiction is a job. Fanfiction is a hobby. It's not a distinction that should be difficult to understand.

Yeah, I know, and yet I was curious, asking myself, if there is next to a proof, that you have the actual talent to pull something off, also a job-interview, where you need to sell your story.

 

[Christopher]

Yeah, I know, and yet I was curious, asking myself, if there is next to a proof, that you have the actual talent to pull something off, also a job-interview, where you need to sell your story.

The story itself is what proves you have the talent, naturally.

 

[mithril]

one that i've noticed in a lot, though i'm not sure if it the author or the editors that inflicts it.. lack of any line breaks, blank lines, or other indicators of transition between 'scenes' within a chapter. you can have a scene with the captain on the bridge talking to one set of people, then literally in the next line with no indication of a change, it's someone on a planet talking to a whole other group of characters. sometimes it'll jump multiple times in a chapter, and its really jarring and makes it harder to keep track of what is going on. it is especially bad in ebooks where you can't even rely on switching pages as a stealth transition.

this can often marr even the novels with good writing, concept, and plot.

 

[Christopher]

one that i've noticed in a lot, though i'm not sure if it the author or the editors that inflicts it.. lack of any line breaks, blank lines, or other indicators of transition between 'scenes' within a chapter. you can have a scene with the captain on the bridge talking to one set of people, then literally in the next line with no indication of a change, it's someone on a planet talking to a whole other group of characters. sometimes it'll jump multiple times in a chapter, and its really jarring and makes it harder to keep track of what is going on.

That sounds like a formatting or typesetting problem. I've rarely seen that in a professionally published book. When I write a manuscript, I always put a "#" between scenes to mark the breaks. The people who typeset and format the book will replace them with blank lines or scene-divider symbols, depending on their format preferences.

it is especially bad in ebooks where you can't even rely on switching pages as a stealth transition.

Except that's the opposite of how it works. In print books, generally scene breaks are marked by a blank line between scenes, but if a scene break coincides with a page break, a divider symbol will be used so the reader knows there's a scene break. Nobody who knows what they're doing would try to conceal a transition with a page break, since that would confuse the reader, and the goal is clarity.

 

[CaptainCalvinCat]

That sounds like a formatting or typesetting problem. I've rarely seen that in a professionally published book. When I write a manuscript, I always put a "#" between scenes to mark the breaks. The people who typeset and format the book will replace them with blank lines or scene-divider symbols, depending on their format preferences.

I'm curious - how much difference is there between a page you've written in - say - word, then the manuscripted page and then the printed one? And what kinds of formats can one choose? Would colours - as I do in my fanfics - be an idea?

 

[Christopher]

I'm curious - how much difference is there between a page you've written in - say - word, then the manuscripted page and then the printed one?

Not really my department, but they do choose their own font and formatting, which means the pagination is bound to be different from the manuscript. The writer's job is just to handle the content, not the presentation. Unless the story entails clever typographic tricks like Alfred Bester often used. I did some of that in a couple of my early novels, including The Buried Age, I think.

And what kinds of formats can one choose? Would colours - as I do in my fanfics - be an idea?

I can't recall seeing multiple ink colors used in a prose book in print. And it probably wouldn't work in an e-book either, since e-readers can be individually set to display the user's choice of color scheme, so I'm not sure you could encode a special color that would show up the intended way in every scheme.

 

[CaptainCalvinCat]

I can't recall seeing multiple ink colors used in a prose book in print..

The only time I saw it, was in "Die unendliche Geschichte" - different fonts IIRC and different colours for the different settings.

 

[Greg Cox]

It's an analogy. Analogies are not expected to be exact. It doesn't work the same way, but it's the same principle: You're applying to get hired. Pro fiction is a job. Fanfiction is a hobby. It's not a distinction that should be difficult to understand.

Exactly. I was just going to jump in to clarify, just to avoid confusion, that Christopher wasn't talking about a literal job interview, but just using that as a comparison to the process of submitting a manuscript to an editor or publisher.

It's not like movies and TV where you literally pitch an idea in person or over the phone. Publishing is more about submitting manuscripts: stories, outlines, sample chapters, entire novels, etc. In the old days, we did this by mail (compete with return postage). Nowadays, it's done digitally.

And, of course, the media tie-in world is its own little weird niche of publishing that operates very differently than original fiction.

 

[CaptainCalvinCat]

Exactly. I was just going to jump in to clarify, just to avoid confusion, that Christopher wasn't talking about a literal job interview, but just using that as a comparison to the process of submitting a manuscript to an editor or publisher.

It's not like movies and TV where you literally pitch an idea in person or over the phone. Publishing is more about submitting manuscripts: stories, outlines, sample chapters, entire novels, etc. In the old days, we did this by mail (compete with return postage). Nowadays, it's done digitally.

And, of course, the media tie-in world is its own little weird niche of publishing that operates very differently than original fiction.

And exactly that was my question.
Why? Well, because I don't have any idea, how this whole publishing thing works. Do I contact a publishing firm, basically saying "Hey, I'm Cal, I'd love to be an author, I've written several books and I'd like you to publish them?"

Or do you have to write something like a Cover letter first, complete with CV, a picture (as you normally do, if you apply for a normal job), include some short stories, you've written beforehand as portfolio, that the company knows, how you write? Do you provide them with an excerpt of the novel, you want to sell to the company?

Like I said, I have little to no idea, how that actually works - which is, why I asked.

 

[Greg Cox]

And exactly that was my question.
Why? Well, because I don't have any idea, how this whole publishing thing works. Do I contact a publishing firm, basically saying "Hey, I'm Cal, I'd love to be an author, I've written several books and I'd like you to publish them?"

Or do you have to write something like a Cover letter first, complete with CV, a picture (as you normally do, if you apply for a normal job), include some short stories, you've written beforehand as portfolio, that the company knows, how you write? Do you provide them with an excerpt of the novel, you want to sell to the company?

Like I said, I have little to no idea, how that actually works - which is, why I asked.

Perfectly understandable. Especially with the regards to the tie-in business, which is its own weird thing. And trust me, you are not alone. There are lots of misconceptions and confusion about how it works. "How much do you have to pay CBS to be allowed to write Trek novels?"

Speaking broadly:

Regular publishing: It's all about the individual work. You're not applying to work at the company; you're trying to convince them to buy a particular manuscript. So you're not going to show them samples of your previous work or submit any sort of portfolio or resume or photo. You're just going to include a brief cover letter explaining what you're submitting and citing any RELEVANT experience or credits.

"Enclosed is my novel, VAMPIRE MERMAIDS, an historical fantasy set during the Golden Age of Piracy. This is my first novel, but my short fiction has appeared in ASIMOV'S, ANALOG, and STAR TREK EXPLORER magazine. In addition, I'm a professor of Naval History at the University of Maine."

In olden days, it was sometimes sufficient to submit an outline and sample chapters to make a sale, but I'm told that is much harder to do these days, especially if it's a first novel. Publishers are going to want to see a complete manuscript before pulling the trigger.

Or possibly the book is going to be submitted by your agent.

(Note: we're talking traditional, old-school publishing here. I don't pretend to be well-versed in the brave new world of electronic self-publishing, Kickstarters, Patreons, etc.)

Media Tie-ins: You don't want to write an entire novel before an outline has been approved by the licensor. And how you get the opportunity to submit an outline, or even get a foot in the door, is going to vary from author to author. Chances are, though, you probably already have some publishing experience and credits and connections before you're invited to submit an outline. In general, in my experience, such projects are not usually initiated by the author, but by the editor, who acquires a license, then goes looking around for suitable writers.

"Hi, Greg. We just acquired the ALIAS license. What is your schedule like?"

Mind you, I broke into the tie-in business more than thirty years ago. I have no idea how folks go about it these days.

Hope this makes sense!

EDIT: Oh, I'm told that, nowadays, publishers are possibly going to take your social media presence into account. Do you have many thousands of followers on Instagram or TikTok or whatever? That might make your book seem like a better prospect, commercially.

 

[CaptainCalvinCat]

Perfectly understandable. Especially with the regards to the tie-in business, which is its own weird thing. And trust me, you are not alone. There are lots of misconceptions and confusion about how it works. "How much do you have to pay CBS to be allowed to write Trek novels?"

Speaking broadly:

Regular publishing: It's all about the individual work. You're not applying to work at the company; you're trying to convince them to buy a particular manuscript. So you're not going to show them samples of your previous work or submit any sort of portfolio or resume or photo. You're just going to include a brief cover letter explaining what you're submitting and citing any RELEVANT experience or credits.

"Enclosed is my novel, VAMPIRE MERMAIDS, an historical fantasy set during the Golden Age of Piracy. This is my first novel, but my short fiction has appeared in ASIMOV'S, ANALOG, and STAR TREK EXPLORER magazine. In addition, I'm a professor of Naval History at the University of Maine."

In olden days, it was sometimes sufficient to submit an outline and sample chapters to make a sale, but I'm told that is much harder to do these days, especially if it's a first novel. Publishers are going to want to see a complete manuscript before pulling the trigger.

Or possibly the book is going to be submitted by your agent.

(Note: we're talking traditional, old-school publishing here. I don't pretend to be well-versed in the brave new world of electronic self-publishing, Kickstarters, Patreons, etc.)

Media Tie-ins: You don't want to write an entire novel before an outline has been approved by the licensor. And how you get the opportunity to submit an outline, or even get a foot in the door, is going to vary from author to author. Chances are, though, you probably already have some publishing experience and credits and connections before you're invited to submit an outline. In general, in my experience, such projects are not usually initiated by the author, but by the editor, who acquires a license, then goes looking around for suitable writers.

"Hi, Greg. We just acquired the ALIAS license. What is your schedule like?"

Mind you, I broke into the tie-in business more than thirty years ago. I have no idea how folks go about it these days.

Hope this makes sense!

EDIT: Oh, I'm told that, nowadays, publishers are possibly going to take your social media presence into account. Do you have many thousands of followers on Instagram or TikTok or whatever? That might make your book seem like a better prospect, commercially.

Thank you very much - and yes, that all made sense. *bows his head*

 

[Greg Cox]

Thank you very much - and yes, that all made sense. *bows his head*

And, again, I throw in the disclaimer that I'm an old guy who started working in publishing when we still used typewriters, not computers, so I don't claim to be on the cutting-edge of modern trends in book publishing.

 

[JD]

What about when you get big name writers, like Alatair Reynolds, who wrote a Dr. Who novel, or Jim Butcher, who wrote a Spider-Man one, would they be able to just call up Pocket or BBC Books and just say "hey, I wanna write a Dr. Who or Spider-Man book", or would they still have to go through the whole process a less well known writer does?

Naah, even then, I'm like "Cool - this guy has some background knowledge." It doesn't take me out of the story. What *does*, is when a character, whom we know, reacts in a certain way, suddenly reacts OOC - and I don't care if that's in a fanfic or in a novel. I read a Detective Conan Fanfic one day, where Shinichi - supposed to be 17 years old - yelled "Because of you, my Ran is feeling ill". Naah, that's nothing, Shinichi would say, not even if he's pretending to be little Conan Edogawa.

Yeah, this a big one for me, if you're going to write a tie-in, try to be sure you can actually write a story that fits in that universe, and that you can accurately write the characters.

I remembered one thing that bugs me, it's not an author thing, but it is a book issue, when the e-book doesn't include something that was part of the physical book. Now I can understand not including stuff that is separate from the book, like how a lot of big coffee table books will now includes extras like prop recreations and things like that, so I'm talking about stuff that is actually in the book. For example, I read the e-book of The Sky's The Limit a few months back, and it says in the e-book itself that it includes a preview for the TNG manga, but it's not actually in there. And the e-book of one of the books with the IKS Gorkon in it, I can't rememeber for sure which was, does not include the ship schematics that were part of the paperback.