Spoilers STAR TREK: SECTION 31 - Grading & Discussion

[Ray Hardgrit]

Yeah, I feel like Strange New Worlds is a known quantity at this point. It doesn't seem prone to wild swings in tone or quality like Discovery was.

Starfleet Academy... that's going to be interesting.

 

[Trekker4747]

And they stuck him in a DSC uniform.

Would have been interesting to see him on the panel for a non-fan POV.

 

[fireproof78]

Starfleet Academy was top of my list after a Pike series as a young man.

 

[JD]

No those are minor when the show was still maturing. Discovery went out of its way to change stuff. Continuity errors happen in every show even minor retcons. Star Trek is probably the worst. Star wars does a much better job of maintaining it. Both in story and visual. Star Trek has been all over the place the last 16 years.

What did Discover change that was so drastically canon breaking? And I'm not counting things like changing the Klingons or any of the design changes for the technology, sine those are purely real world changes that didn't effect the story.

Again, this movie was made only because Yeoh still wanted to do it. There was no contract. While I’m not privy to Kurtzman’s thought processes, I would very much like it if he learned the lesson that you shouldn’t cater to people just because they want a vanity project. He didn’t learn that lesson with Patrick Stewart, so here’s hoping he did learn something here before Tawny’s pet project gets the green light.

I hope he didn't, or at least not enough to cancel the Risa show, I'm really hoping that makes it to air.

I really wish they would just fire Kururtzman and hire someone that has respect for the source material.

I hope they don't, and if they do, then I hope they bring in someone who has the same level of respect for the source material as Kurtzman does. The franchise needs someone in charge who is willing to do different things, and take chances with the franchise.

 

[MakeshiftPython]

SNW Season 3 will do fine. I say this as a non-fan of the series.

SFA, on the other hand, who knows? We'll see how that goes...

One thing I’ve learned is that Star Trek never stays dead.

Sure, fans panicked after the cancellation of Enterprise and the flop of Nemesis, and many then were declaring that the franchise was finally dead.

Except one year after the cancellation of Enterprise it was announced J.J. Abrams was producing the next Trek, and then the rest is history.

I’m not certain of Kurtzman’s Trek coming to an end, but I do know that nothing lasts forever. Gene came and went. Berman came and went. So will Kurtzman, and whoever takes over the franchise down the line.

 

[fireproof78]

One thing I’ve learned is that Star Trek never stays dead.

Sure, fans panicked after the cancellation of Enterprise and the flop of Nemesis, and many then were declaring that the franchise was finally dead.

Except one year after the cancellation of Enterprise it was announced J.J. Abrams was producing the next Trek, and then the rest is history.

I’m not certain of Kurtzman’s Trek coming to an end, but I do know that nothing lasts forever. Gene came and went. Berman came and went. So will Kurtzman, and whoever takes over the franchise down the line.

Indeed.

If it stops tomorrow we still have a long running franchise with so much content.

And when it changes it will "ruin" Trek too according to fans.

Just the way of things.

 

[Brainsucker]

Or they misspoke. Or are simply mistaken. Or were misquoted.

But why assume something innocuous when it’s more fun to insinuate it must have been something nefarious, eh?

Also, both 10 episodes and 6 episodes can really be planned by them. Maybe at the beginning, they planned for 10 episodes. But then it was cut into 6, before become a 2 hours movie. But the story itself was written in 6 episodes format. So nobody lying.

 

[TRON JA307020]

What did Discover change that was so drastically canon breaking? And I'm not counting things like changing the Klingons or any of the design changes for the technology, sine those are purely real world changes that didn't effect the story.

I hope he didn't, or at least not enough to cancel the Risa show, I'm really hoping that makes it to air.

I hope they don't, and if they do, then I hope they bring in someone who has the same level of respect for the source material as Kurtzman does. The franchise needs someone in charge who is willing to do different things, and take chances with the franchise.

Nah. I dont want someone with a low level of respect for the source material like kurtzman. No. I want a person who likes star trek to makr the show not a star wars fan like kurtzman.

 

[fireproof78]

Nah. I dont want someone with a low level of respect for the source material like kurtzman. No. I want a person who likes star trek to makr the show not a star wars fan like kurtzman.

Define respect.

Because respect looks differently with different fans.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Nah. I dont want someone with a low level of respect for the source material like kurtzman. No. I want a person who likes star trek to makr the show not a star wars fan like kurtzman.

I thought Abrams was the Star Wars guy.

Of course people can be fans of both. Kurtzman doesn't seem to be adverse to hiring people who "respect the source material". Otherwise we wouldn't have Lower Decks, Prodigy and SNW. OTOH we did get the mess that is PIC3 from a "respectful" showrunner. So as always a mixed bag.

 

[Trekker4747]

To quote Rich Evans on why the movie doesn't work.

Pick a tone and if you're gonna rip-off Gaurdians of the Galaxy don't just make the characters wacky, recognize that those characters have some amount of heart and I care about what happens to those characters. I know Rocket the Raccoon has some kind of tragic backstory, it leaks through every now and then and I feel sympathy for Rocket the Raccoon. He isn't just the wacky guy who says the wacky things."

 

[Yoda]

I saw that the RLM video was out, so I watched this turd. 1 out of 10 is honestly too good for it. Should have been an option for a zero. I didn't think things could get any worse than the first two seasons of Picard but here we are.

 

[JD]

Nah. I dont want someone with a low level of respect for the source material like kurtzman. No. I want a person who likes star trek to makr the show not a star wars fan like kurtzman.

To be clear, I was being sarcastic, if you pay any attention to things it's pretty clear that Kutzman does like and respect the franchise. He's made changes and done things differently doesn't mean they don't respect the franchise, it just means they aren't sticking to the old way of doing things.
And the shows under Kurtzman overall have been very respectful of the franchise, overall they've still stuck to the core of what makes Star Trek what it is.
The only thing that we've gotten under Kurtzman that I didn't particularly like was the early episodes of Discovery, but I blame my issues with that on Bryan Fuller not Kurtzman, and I thought it steadily improved the farther it got from his original concepts, and once they jumped to the 32nd Century, I thought it massively improved.
SNW and LD are two of my favorite series in the entire franchise, up there with TNG and DS9 for me.

 

[fireproof78]

I thought Abrams was the Star Wars guy.

Of course people can be fans of both. Kurtzman doesn't seem to be adverse to hiring people who "respect the source material". Otherwise we wouldn't have Lower Decks, Prodigy and SNW. OTOH we did get the mess that is PIC3 from a "respectful" showrunner. So as always a mixed bag.

Abrams is a Star Wars guy, though he came to have a deeper appreciation through his films and meeting Leonard Nimoy, and other TOS actors who came in the set.

Regardless, respect is a deeply mixed bag. Respect can sometimes mean "do things my way or else..." or recognize that art can be used in different ways but still respect common themes.

I would be hard pressed to say SNW or different seasons of Discovery don't respect TOS in terms of tone and story.

I'd be equally hard pressed to call LD or Picard Season 3 respectful because it borrows heavily from other styles.

Decidingly mixed at best in defining respect.

 

[Citiprime]

Again, this movie was made only because Yeoh still wanted to do it. There was no contract. While I’m not privy to Kurtzman’s thought processes, I would very much like it if he learned the lesson that you shouldn’t cater to people just because they want a vanity project. He didn’t learn that lesson with Patrick Stewart, so here’s hoping he did learn something here before Tawny’s pet project gets the green light.

I wonder if it was a sort of sunk cost fallacy.

They seem to have already spent money on pre-production a while back (e.g., someone posted early art concepts for Georgiou's space station and some of the aliens) . Actors like Shazad Latif (who played Ash Tyler) gave interviews years ago indicating he was asked about possibly being part of a Section 31 series during season 2 of Discovery. And they were in production on season 2 of Discovery back in 2018!

My feeling was this was something they spent time and money on early in Discovery's run. They couldn't get it to work or a greenlight to put it into production. After Yeoh won an Academy Award, she was still open to doing it, and that was enough for some executive to give the go-ahead. They thought because they had some material already lying around, plus an Oscar-winning actress, that would be enough of a draw, and they could work out the kinks while getting it made.

And that didn't work... AT ALL.

 

[Trekker4747]

And then to quote Mike.

Rich asks Mike if he ever sees Trek "coming back," like ever, ever; going on the premise of this representing and "end" of Star Trek. (assuming SNW ends soon an SFA fails. Mike muses that if people like S31. Great. If it's making Paramount money and it's putting people and artists to work in project they enjoy andnd we just don't enjoy it? Great. But..

But, I would be very happy before I die to see a Star Trek series about a Starfleet spaceship that goes out into space and they encounter problems and discuss them and how to solve them..."

Don't hold your breath.

I know.

On the other hand you can always go back and watch old episodes of TNG.

 

[Nerys Myk]

And then to quote Mike.

Rich asks Mike if he ever sees Trek "coming back," like ever, ever; going on the premise of this representing and "end" of Star Trek. (assuming SNW ends soon an SFA fails. Mike muses that if people like S31. Great. If it's making Paramount money and it's putting people and artists to work in project they enjoy andnd we just don't enjoy it? Great. But..

Have these two clowns ever seen Strange New Worlds? It's literally "about a Starfleet spaceship that goes out into space and they encounter problems and discuss them and how to solve them."

 

[fireproof78]

Have these two clowns ever seen Strange New Worlds? It's literally "about a Starfleet spaceship that goes out into space and they encounter problems and discuss them and how to solve them."

No they haven't because the Trek they want is a bit of a Benny Russel fantasy world. It's not just the basic concept but the feel of it, a nebulous goal if I ever heard one, save for this:

Red vs. Blue-
Grif: Simmons, you should win harder. Or try harder to win.
Sarge: that's the worst ordering of all time!
Grif: I learned it by watching you!

 

[Citiprime]

And then to quote Mike.

Rich asks Mike if he ever sees Trek "coming back," like ever, ever; going on the premise of this representing and "end" of Star Trek. (assuming SNW ends soon an SFA fails. Mike muses that if people like S31. Great. If it's making Paramount money and it's putting people and artists to work in project they enjoy and we just don't enjoy it? Great. But..

My favorite part was Mike and Jay imagining Michelle Yeoh's call to Jamie Lee Curtis for the cameo:

"They're burning money, Jamie. Come on! Let's rip off these suckers while we can!"

 

[Trekker4747]

Have these two clowns ever seen Strange New Worlds? It's literally "about a Starfleet spaceship that goes out into space and they encounter problems and discuss them and how to solve them."

Both have seen it and seemed to think it was more what they want be neither liked how the behavior of the characters was too much like people today as opposed to what we've seen from the era. Mike was sort of annoyed by the behavior of the characters, usually we saw more militrastic behavior when on duty. Too much sass and insubordinate talk. But IIRC he felt it was more I the ballpark of what he wanted.