No, you didn't pay attention or willfully ignored. Read my review maybe. Lots of good trek themes.
Spoilers STAR TREK: SECTION 31 - Grading & Discussion
- Thread starter Commander Richard
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I actually thought it was funny that her few "oofs" reminded me immediately of Star Wars: Outlaws since she voices Kay in that game and they of course sounded identical to that.
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Unlike TESB, fans have known for many years that the producers wanted to make a Section 31 series with Yeoh. And in that time, the fandom has been pretty divided on whether that was going to be a good idea or not. So it's not like people had no idea this was coming. And also unlike TESB, the trailers made the movie look quite the pile of crap, with tenuous links at best to their actual premise (i.e. S31 is a secret organization that nobody knows about who do morally ambiguous things in the name of 'Federation security,' and should absolutely NOT be treated as heroes.)
In terms of actual decisions the movie made that made me angry, there was only one. Unfortunately, that was within the first 10 minutes, where we discover young Georgiou became emperor due to winning some sort of Hunger-Games-like competition against 17 other kids.
This is, frankly, totally nutso. It completely goes against everything we saw previously involving the Terran Empire, where the way to the top is murdering all of your rivals until your will to power is respected. Yet we were meant to believe the Empire was just going to hand over total power to teenage Georgiou, just because she happened to win a contest? Made the whole Terran Empire seem small and fake.
The worst part is, this wasn't needed. The scene could have worked just as well if it was just a contest to get into the Terran Empire's equivalent of the officer corps, setting Georgiou on the path to tyranny rather than just achieving all of her aims in a single moment. In fact, I'm guessing that was what a rough draft of the original season arc had planned here. San could have been at her side as her personal slave for decades as she ascended the rungs of the Terran Empire, slowly losing all humanity. I even think it wouldn't need more than a single additional scene to work.
This is, frankly, totally nutso. It completely goes against everything we saw previously involving the Terran Empire, where the way to the top is murdering all of your rivals until your will to power is respected. Yet we were meant to believe the Empire was just going to hand over total power to teenage Georgiou, just because she happened to win a contest? Made the whole Terran Empire seem small and fake.
The worst part is, this wasn't needed. The scene could have worked just as well if it was just a contest to get into the Terran Empire's equivalent of the officer corps, setting Georgiou on the path to tyranny rather than just achieving all of her aims in a single moment. In fact, I'm guessing that was what a rough draft of the original season arc had planned here. San could have been at her side as her personal slave for decades as she ascended the rungs of the Terran Empire, slowly losing all humanity. I even think it wouldn't need more than a single additional scene to work.
My point is we'll have to wait a few weeks to definitively conclude that this was a flop with audiences, but you haven't even waited 12 hours.
I thought TATV was complete crap upon my initial watch of it, and twenty years later, my opinion has not changed.
It's the streaming era. If people stream it (and they are) it'll be successful and they'll make more. Doesn't really matter of some people didn't like it, over and above the usual.
The studio clearly liked it. The producers likes it. The actors liked it. I'm surprised the critics apparently didn't but if people stream it, it's all academic.
It really felt like they cut a lot out of the third act. It's supposed to be the climax of the story, but it was decidedly an anticlimax. The four remaining crew against just San and Fuzz, who were on the bridge of a single Terran Empire ship.
I really don't understand the lack of mooks in this movie in general. An easy way to play up the antihero angle would have been to give the Section 31 team a chance to do collateral damage/kill a bunch of nobodies - something Discovery did routinely. Yet we don't have any more than two characters standing in their way across the entirety of the story.
Edit: How can you set up a character like Zeph - a big dumb lunk who's there to shoot things - and not have him shoot anyone? He literally just crashed through walls!
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You're 1 person, my point is you automatically assume your opinion matches everyone else's. Your opinion of S31 obviously doesn't match mine yet you continue to ignore that and insist that everyone else will share your opinion instead of mine when not even 12 hours have passed.
I have my opinion, and the overwhelmingly negative reviews I've read. No, I don't claim to speak for everyone. And could this movie suddenly become some kind of cult classic in Trek fandom several years from now? Possibly. But I doubt it.
Hey, you loved the movie? Awesome, I'm happy for you. We'll see in time how it's ultimately viewed by the fandom at large.
If I had to guess, in twenty or so years it will be mostly remembered as being a solid continuation of the good-bad pattern, falling on the "bad" side, but there will be a vocal minority of people calling it underrated and misunderstood. Same as every other "bad" Trek movie.
Speaking for myself, I've never felt that any of the bad Star Trek movies (i.e. Final Frontier, Generations, Insurrection, Nemesis) were underrated or misunderstood. But that's me.
Probably right. I think Nemesis broke the pattern, but then 2009 started it up again. Except instead of even/odd, it's odd/even. I'm not a fan of the Kelvin Films and obviously I didn't like S31... but I will say that of those four, I liked the 2009 Film and Beyond better than Into Darkness and Section 31.
I always thought Final Frontier was better than people give it credit for. No argument about Generations, Insurrection or Nemesis though.
I predict S31 would be seen like the 1999 Dr Who tv movie, widely derided at release time but as time passes people think "It wasn't really that bad".
The other widely panned movie was the original 2008 Clone Wars movie from that other Star franchise. Nowadays that movie and the entire ensuing Clone Wars series is seen as one of Star Wars' better offerings.
I predict S31 would be seen like the 1999 Dr Who tv movie, widely derided at release time but as time passes people think "It wasn't really that bad".
The other widely panned movie was the original 2008 Clone Wars movie from that other Star franchise. Nowadays that movie and the entire ensuing Clone Wars series is seen as one of Star Wars' better offerings.
Dumpster fire came to mind. Enough said.
I think what dooms this is that there is a big difference between this and some of the other "rough" movies in the franchise and this one in a key way:
Some (most?) weaker movies in the franchise have at least something at their conceptual core that is good, and the execution is just not there in one way or another. TFF has some really good ideas and character interactions but the story/writing/visuals aren't that good. GEN has some interesting ideas but the execution is all over the place. INS presents an interesting Trek moral dilemma but fumbles it. In each case the concept is actually pretty solid but then the movie falls short for various reasons.
This movie has 2 concepts at its core that are rotten from the get go: the first is treating S31 as anything other than antagonists, and the second is the totally ill-advised attempted rehabilitation of the Empress. These two things already handicapped this movie before they shot a single scene.
Some (most?) weaker movies in the franchise have at least something at their conceptual core that is good, and the execution is just not there in one way or another. TFF has some really good ideas and character interactions but the story/writing/visuals aren't that good. GEN has some interesting ideas but the execution is all over the place. INS presents an interesting Trek moral dilemma but fumbles it. In each case the concept is actually pretty solid but then the movie falls short for various reasons.
This movie has 2 concepts at its core that are rotten from the get go: the first is treating S31 as anything other than antagonists, and the second is the totally ill-advised attempted rehabilitation of the Empress. These two things already handicapped this movie before they shot a single scene.
Haha, yeah, "The Terran Empereror is actually chosen merit-based, not through corruption or intrigue" was certainly not on my bingo-card watching this movie.
For me, the decision that made me "angry" was that they - once again - turned the Terran Empire into Warhammer 40k, a complete over-the-top cartoon version. But, well, that ship had sailed with DIS & PIC S2 already...
I still maintain the only good mirror universe stories are actually "Mirror, Mirror" & "Yesterday's Enterprise", as the only ones that feature actually normal, reasonable characters in an oppressive regime. And "In a mirror Darkly", for the pure, unadulterated meta-fun it had with the concept. But that was already the beginning of the end - the whole thing by now is only a vehicle to ham it up for the writers, directors and actors.
I feel it must be a ton of fun for all these people behind & in front of the camera to make this extreme, over-the-top "dark" mirror universe. However that fun didn't translate to me, the viewer. It feels like a 2h amateur improv play. Really more aimed for the people on the stage, than actually for the audience.
I will say this, the movie left me wanting more. This mission at the end of the episode...I want to see it. I want to see those Alpha and Beta teams!
I think this is the result of 10 scripts being summed up in these 90 minutes as well as the general entertainment level and acting.
I think this is the result of 10 scripts being summed up in these 90 minutes as well as the general entertainment level and acting.
That's funny; I loved the 1999 Doctor Who movie when it first came out. And as far as I know my opinion about it hasn't changed.
