Spoilers STAR TREK: SECTION 31 - Grading & Discussion

[The Wormhole]

Its obvious that this is a lot of plot and character built into 95 minutes.

Indeed. I'm not getting the impression this movie is a reworked script for a pilot episode of a series, rather I think it's an entire ten episode season arc condensed into 95 minutes. Which on the one hand makes it feel rather rushed, on the other I wonder how padded this could feel it it was indeed a ten episode season.

 

[Yistaan]

I'm about 35 minutes in right now (watching it bits before I can sit down at lunch and finish it), and so far, its fine. Nothing amazing. Nothing that is keeping me from continuing. But sometimes its just downright annoying. Very by the numbers. Very solidly middle 5 as I go along. We'll see if that holds in the next hour.

I liked the first hour a lot but the last half-hour fell apart fast in my opinion. Not enough for me to detract from my overall opinion of the movie, which remains positive.

Agents of SHIELD is also the redheaded stepchild of the MCU which the rest of the MCU goes to great lengths to avoid acknowledging.

No offense then because if you're still saying that after watching Secret Invasion and still telling me with a straight face that Agents of SHIELD is worse than Secret Invasion, Disney must be paying you a LOT (there's definitely an agenda over ignoring it--as it wasn't even mentioned in the recent Marvel timeline book-- but it has nothing to do with quality and everything to do with the rights and money issues etc since AoS was made before the current Disney tv studio setup. Not to mention Joss Whedon's tangential involvement in the show)...

 

[The Wormhole]

No offense then because if you're still saying that after watching Secret Invasion and still telling me with a straight face that Agents of SHIELD is worse than Secret Invasion, Disney must be paying you a LOT

I didn't say it was better or worse, but it is the one show the rest of the MCU willfully ignores. Even its spinoff, the Agent Carter series has been acknowledged. Granted, it was acknowledged in What If, but that's still more of an acknowledgment than Agents of SHIELD ever got.

 

[Yistaan]

I didn't say it was better or worse, but it is the one show the rest of the MCU willfully ignores. Even its spinoff, the Agent Carter series has been acknowledged. Granted, it was acknowledged in What If, but that's still more of an acknowledgment than Agents of SHIELD ever got.

Acknowleding it would be messy in a way Agent Carter wouldn't be because basically Season 7 puts AoS smack into the middle of the Blip, yet there's no indication in said Season 7 episodes about half the population being gone (to be fair they never outright say that half the population ISN'T gone either but it's still odd). So there's that too.

 

[Tosk]

that the survival of San (how old is he supposed to be by this time?)

Yeah I don't know how that works either. He should be at least sixty years older than Philippa in the here-and-now. Unless there was some baloney time travel excuse I missed?

 

[El Maestro]

Star Trek is a generic space show. Always has been.

Uhhh....no? Star Trek has a terroir that is uniquely its own and includes myriad aspects of audio/visual design, story, setting, character, etc etc etc.

You can maybe argue that it started as a generic space show (everything has to start somewhere) but Trek is its "own thing" as is Star Wars.

This, of course, shouldn't limit what kinds of stories it can tell. But those stories should be in the place that is ST.

Why are you so insistent that it's generic? This makes no sense to me.

 

[Judith Sisko]

Well, I broke down and watched it. As for the actual film itself, it had issues, most definitely. I can get more into those later.

I DID follow someone's advice (don't remember who mentioned it, I think there were a few of you) and watched it as a Michelle Yeoh film and not a "Trek movie."

With some tweaking, I could see where this once-in-a-while movie series would have a place in the Trek macrocosm.

[I can't believe I just typed that.]

 

[Tiran O'Saurus]

Yeah I don't know how that works either. He should be at least sixty years older than Philippa in the here-and-now. Unless there was some baloney time travel excuse I missed?

Maybe he's a Lanthanite.

 

[The Wormhole]

Acknowleding it would be messy in a way Agent Carter wouldn't be because basically Season 7 puts AoS smack into the middle of the Blip, yet there's no indication in said Season 7 episodes about half the population being gone (to be fair they never outright say that half the population ISN'T gone either but it's still odd). So there's that too.

They could have easily had the other characters show up in a What If episode just like they did the other Agent Carter characters, or even just had Coulson mention he had a team.

Why are you so insistent that it's generic?

Generic space show: Adventures of a team or spaceship crew wearing brightly colored outfits who claim to be peaceful explorers despite being armed and holding military ranks. Will emphasize their peaceful intent by claiming to not be a military despite constantly using military terminology. Does this or does it not also sound like Star Trek to you?

 

[Yistaan]

Apparently an unaired concept for the Tantalus device in the mirror universe is that it sent people to a different time. Maybe someone used a Tantalus device on San and he ended up in the future...?

They could have easily had the other characters show up in a What If episode just like they did the other Agent Carter characters, or even just had Coulson mention he had a team.

I agree that there IS an issue going on with AoS but I still don't think it's quality like you were implying (Marvel has no problem shoring up a lot of shaky stuff). Considering all the bad press about Joss Whedon and that his brother ran AoS, this may be connected to that but that's just my guess.

 

[El Maestro]

How does it undermine and cheapen it in one installment?


That's a damn impressive achievement for one film!

I know this is one of your trademark drive-by replies that makes a sweeping generalization and then mocks it like a Straw Man but I know you are more literate than this.

The Star Trek universe established, over decades, the sense of place that it is set in, and this includes a basic (aspirational) moral framework and an (aspirational) assortment of aspects that make the ST universe the ST universe and it is definitely possible for a misapprehension of S31 to undermine those aspects, even in one installment. And you know this. Lots of franchises have examples of 1 installment that weakens/undermines their underlying premise.

 

[fireproof78]

that weakens/undermines their underlying premise.

How? That's my only question.

Generic space show: Adventures of a team or spaceship crew wearing brightly colored outfits who claim to be peaceful explorers despite being armed and holding military ranks. Will emphasize their peaceful intent by claiming to not be a military despite constantly using military terminology. Does this or does it not also sound like Star Trek to you?

Star Trek has always been a sandbox style that allowed for multiple stories to be within it. It had a general optimistic view that humanity would venture forth in to the stars, but in the 60s that was quite common. So, yes, Trek is very generic. Been seeing that a bit more as I reread Heinlein.

It also borrows heavily from the science fiction of the day, from Forbidden Planet, to 2001: A Space Odyssey, and even Star Wars and Doctor Who.

It may be at times positive and aspirational but there are times it is very down and recognizes that human nature has a conflict to it, and is driven as much by pain as pleasure.

There's a reason why non positive characters like Quark, Q or Garak resonate and it's not because they reflect an evolved humanity. Rather, they reflect vices of humanity that continue to be a struggle.

 

[The Wormhole]

I know this is one of your trademark drive-by replies that makes a sweeping generalization and then mocks it like a Straw Man but I know you are more literate than this.

The Star Trek universe established, over decades, the sense of place that it is set in, and this includes a basic (aspirational) moral framework and an (aspirational) assortment of aspects that make the ST universe the ST universe and it is definitely possible for a misapprehension of S31 to undermine those aspects, even in one installment. And you know this. Lots of franchises have examples of 1 installment that weakens/undermines their underlying premise.

Yeah, no. Sixty years of Star Trek is not going to be undone by one mediocre movie.

 

[Yistaan]

Yeah, no. Sixty years of Star Trek is not going to be undone by one mediocre movie.

It was argued that the Motion Picture almost undid Trek by leaning in too deep into the exploration/deep ideas concept with V'Ger, another movie about Khan came out that was financially successful is credited with saving the day, despite complaints (including by Roddenberry himself who said something like the Khan character was not meant to be that important) that it was a dumb action revenge plot without Star Trek themes--complaints that sound almost word for word like the complaints about Section 31. I'm not saying that S31 is a WoK (it's not), but the parallels in complaints are startling.

 

[El Maestro]

Yeah, no. Sixty years of Star Trek is not going to be undone by one mediocre movie.

Literacy FTW!

Weaken/undermine/cheapen ≠ undoing. Come on. You know there's a difference.

 

[The Wormhole]

I mean, can you imagine if the modern day internet was around in 1988?
"TFF is a disaster! TNG sucks! The Star Trek franchise is doomed! Watch my three hour YouTube video for all the details."

 

[El Maestro]

I mean, can you imagine if the modern day internet was around in 1988?
"TFF is a disaster! TNG sucks! The Star Trek franchise is doomed! Watch my three hour YouTube video for all the details."

A lot of people said this! This movie and TNG are not the same.

 

[fireproof78]

Literacy FTW!

Weaken/undermine/cheapen ≠ undoing. Come on. You know there's a difference.

That's been happening since TWOK

TWOK has done more to cheapen Trek than other installments. Why? Because it became a formula for Trek to follow. It created this checkbox mentality with revenge as the cornerstone for villains and their motives.

If I were to worry about such things in Trek I'd start much further back than Section 31.

 

[El Maestro]

Also let's be real here: quality matters. If this movie were better it would have a lot more rope.

 

[Quantum21]

It's up and it's....goood!

Yes, Trek aimed for a big budget TV movie and it's successful. I've been busy so I haven't checked out reviews yet, but I'm guessing it's doing really well...everybody seemed so worried about them and needn't have bothered.

The movie is a straightforward tale in plot but does connect nicely with Star Trek history, there are subtle mods to Trek names, races, and events.

Most specifically Discovery is picked up here. While Georgiou hides out trying to be non-committal, regretting her past actions but still putting up an innocuous front, she comes upon a covert Op she sees through like Swiss cheese, she gets involved in a mission that goes back to her very origins in the Mirror Universe.

This background isn't a surprise, it's rather cruel but seems part of the amorphous state in the MU that its denizens just can't get around. In short she makes a choice to survive but eventually relished in it, then regrets.

What's more, this general cruelty has a face, one she was a peer to and then loved. Then a page is turned...

Several Discovery seasons later Georgiou has her 3 ghostly visitations and changed even further...this goes along with my impression that nurture is still strong when the nature of the universe changes. She's definitely a mix but is on a path to redemption.

Along the way we meet a real strength of this movie: a cast that I really couldn't get enough of, and was sad to see several go. KEEP this cast for the inevitable TV series.

I loved that were getting a Trek expansion with lifeform types...micro aliens who inhabit Android bodies...awesome, a Chameloid who did something Odo rarely did... Use his ability to save people. Great use of the character.

The story takes a few twists. Someone is after a weapon, it's unclear who, but we're to assume it's someone aware of the MU.

There's a traitor...the movie does a decent job of keeping us guessing, though I did guess it was the most malcontent of the bunch.

The story comes back together in a very sad moment where Georgiou has to face San...her love. It's a tragedy. They could both find a new life but San can't get past the old(can't blame him). Georgiou must face the consequences of her past. Add another layer to her regrets.

The movie borrows from other scifi, forgivable so, none feels out of place...the covert Mission Impossible messages feel cool in Trek. The tone is very much Guardians of the Galaxy. The covert stuff is not unusual, but we do get plenty of Trek references.

My favorite is Alok. He has to be someone Georgiou respects in ability and experiences. He turns out to be an augment that has shed his creator and mentor...a tyrant like her...immediate repoire.

All of this is wrapped up in a glossy, very expensive looking package that P+ has seen fit to grace us in living 4K!

9 out of 10