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Duotronics vs Isolinear

Will_Carter

Commander
Red Shirt
I get the out of universe reason for swapping to isolinear was both to show the progress of technology, and frankly as an excuse to update the computing props to be flashier. However, what are the advantages of isolinear over duotronics other than, perhaps, speed?

Granted on screen multitronics was shown to be a bust (thanks Daystrom....) but lets say multitronics could've been made workable. How does that compare to isolinear?

Given the end of Lower Decks this isn't entirely an out of left field question. No spoilers, as this is a general technical discussion rather than series end discussion.
 
In the current day, our Von Neumann Based Computer Architecture is based on Resistors & Transistors taken to the n-th degree of complexity with every smaller MicroArchitecture designs and Process Nodes.
Von Neumann's architecture was formalized in 1945 @ Princeton University, based on bits of other peoples works.
Every modern PC that uses a combination of Resistors & Transistors to form the foundation of modern 20th/21st century computing.

Duotronics is supposedly the "Next Step" in computing technology that succeeds our Transistor based computing in the Trek 23rd Century

Multitronics was a failed off-shoot of Duotronics in the 23rd century.

IsoLinear Cicuitry replaced Duotronics in the 24th century

Bio-Neural Circuitry seems to be a intermediate step in the late 24th century.

Organic Circuitry seems to be a very common form of computer circuitry post 24th century.

I get the out of universe reason for swapping to isolinear was both to show the progress of technology, and frankly as an excuse to update the computing props to be flashier.
Yup!

However, what are the advantages of isolinear over duotronics other than, perhaps, speed?
That's usually why we switch over to newer better technologies in computing.

1) Speed
2) Energy Consumption/Efficency
3) Heat Generated
4) Physical Size of the component circuitry
5) Scaling potential
6) Processing potential
7) Flexibility of design using new circuitry principle
8) Operating environmental temperature ranges based on new Circuitry
9) Resistance to Environmental Factors (Radiation, Magnetic Fields, etc)

Granted on screen multitronics was shown to be a bust (thanks Daystrom....) but lets say multitronics could've been made workable.
It didn't completely die, there were a few Multitronic gadgets in the 24th century.
Bashir used a Romulan made multitronic engrammatic interpreter attached to Luther Sloan
So the technology is viable, humanity just moved on.

How does that compare to isolinear?
Isolinear should be faster for standard computing purposes.



From what we've seen of the future Earth Time Pod by Jonathan Archer from the 31st century.

Their technology is a mish-mash of all previous technologies.
 
It didn't completely die, there were a few Multitronic gadgets in the 24th century.
Bashir used a Romulan made multitronic engrammatic interpreter attached to Luther Sloan
So the technology is viable, humanity just moved on.
Call me crazy but It feels like multi-tronics is basically analagous to the jump from single core/thread to multicore/thread processing. Not the same naturally as the architectures are nowhere near the same, but at the same time? that's the feel I get on what the multitronics type units had to offer
Isolinear should be faster for standard computing purposes.
Given isolinear is very clearly optics based rather than electrons going through a medium? Fair.
 
Call me crazy but It feels like multi-tronics is basically analagous to the jump from single core/thread to multicore/thread processing. Not the same naturally as the architectures are nowhere near the same, but at the same time? that's the feel I get on what the multitronics type units had to offer
I think it's more to do with the fundamental states of transistors and the nature of Binary Computing

I'll quote from Daystrom's log entry:

"Previous computers have relied on essentially binary process: Yes/No--On/Off. No matter how sophisticated the microcircuitry, data storage has been built on pathways of Yes/No information bits. But the growth of galactic knowledge has been outstripping the capacity of standard processing; even at the speed of light there is a limit to how much can be done in a linear pathway.

I believe I've found the answer to this problem. Instead of a binary, Yes/No information bit, I propose a basic bit that is Yes or No or all the gradations of maybe in between these two dualities. It is Yes and No in a calculated ratio, and the number of possible ratios is theoretically infinite, though processing materials will place a limit to the duotronic capabilities of a single bit.

But that limit is just for a single information bit. A pathway of two bits squares the number of possibilities; a three-way pathway cubes them, etc. Now a typical program may involve millions of bits in sequence. With the duotronic bit of d gradations, a million bit program would have possibilities of:
(d x 10^6) ^d x 10^6 or (d^d x 10^6 x 10^6d) = 10^36


Since 10^36 alone is a literally astronomical number, and a million bit program is modest nowadays, duotronics has the eventual theoretical possibility of processing information concerning every atom in the galaxy.

Of course, duotronics would only be a mathematician's dream were there no material available to realize this duotronic potential. But certain of the new generation of space-made, super-density synthetic crystals have internal structures that would be excellent duotronic conductors in the properly designed computer configuration. Such configurations, along with the mathematical theory behind duotronics, can be found in the patent application that follows as an ancillary transmission to the log."
If that was the case for what "DuoTronics" was, that would mean the fundamental computing unit wouldn't be "Binary" in nature, but a form of limited low accuracy Floating Point.
Akin to Quantum Computing & QuBits to some degree, but also very different as well.

If that was the case, than DuoTronics would TRULY be REVOLUTIONARY in Comptuer Science.

It would be a very wide "Floating Point" potential for calculations between 2x arbitrary points.

I would assume MultiTronics would be caculating between multiple Arbitrary Points in a Floating Point manner as well instead of 2x Points.

But that's another discussion for another time.

Think of it as a "Very Advanced form" of Analog Computing.
To have that many different states in between 2x points, you would be able to store the fundamental units of computing at a much more granular level.
FP Math wouldn't be nearly as slow to process compared to Integer math.


Given isolinear is very clearly optics based rather than electrons going through a medium? Fair.
But that's a very different level of computing that we're attemping IRL.
Actual Optical Computing is in it's infancy of R&D right now.

So far, we're only doing Optical Networking IRL, but for most of the chip to do actual Computing/Processing via Optics, that could be a huge game changer on a fundamental level.
 
Call me crazy but It feels like multi-tronics is basically analagous to the jump from single core/thread to multicore/thread processing. Not the same naturally as the architectures are nowhere near the same, but at the same time? that's the feel I get on what the multitronics type units had to offer

Given isolinear is very clearly optics based rather than electrons going through a medium? Fair.

In the context of the series, "Multitronics" appears to be related to some non-logic-based processing that utilized human brain patterns. Daystrom imprinted his engrams on M5 in "The Ultimate Computer", in "The Swarm" it is mentioned as part of repairing the EMH and in "Extreme Measures" for interfacing with Sloan's scrambled brain. Arguably, the technology failed in general use because no suitable person's engrams could be used as a basis for the system. I wouldn't be surprised if there was an M5-type system out there for a very specific use or the EMHs are descendents of the technology.

Also, there is "comptronics" which was invented by Daystrom before "duotronics". "Duotronics" is used by the main computer on the TOS Enterprise. "Duotronics" seemed quite capable already given the near sentient-like responses we hear from it in "Tomorrow is Yesterday".
 
Then you got your positronics, and then they slapped hologram stuff in there so you got your holotronics... you'll need a dozen gin and tonics to deal with all those tronics.
 
Talk of succeeding Transistor based computing makes me think that maybe the use of the Transtator (ref. A Piece Of The Action) is the basis for Duotronics. :shrug:
Supported by apocrypha that states a return visit in the 2360's (a piece of the reaction) has said civilization building a 23rd century style starbase.
 
Talk of succeeding Transistor based computing makes me think that maybe the use of the Transtator (ref. A Piece Of The Action) is the basis for Duotronics
They say it's critical, but what is it exactly?

What is a Transtator?

::shrugs::

From what I can guess, it would be the equivalent of the registers for the modern computer to do their math.

That's just a very rough guess.

Anybody else have ideas?
 
A Cybertronian linguist?
Lol, wasn't expecting a Transformer reference.

Well there was that one time....

Sadly out of print.

Anyway.

What is a Transtator?

::shrugs::
Nailed it. Applied philbomium technobabble. However if I had to guess it's the same sort of 'universal processor' concept that the pip boy uses.
 
There is a mathematical relationship between Duotronics, Multitronics, and Chromatic Isolinear technology.

The first surprising thing is that Isolinear technology is doable, as of this year.

The USS Enterprise with a full exploration crew of 430 personnel was required to have this number due to the limitations of Duotronics., for full blown exploration. The USS Enterprise NCC-1701-D, has a designed maximum crew complement of 6,500 personnel. Thirteen times the number of persons onboard the original Enterprise...according to Franz Joseph. Which is interesting, since it comes out evenly.

A Multitronic M-5 Enterprise, had a crew of just twenty operational crew members, discounting the Captain and First, as well as Dr. Daystrom. This implies that a Galaxy class starship could be run by a crew of 260 crew, for the same effectiveness. As opposed to the actual operational crew of 800.

This gives us a better idea of the capabilities of the different systems. Multitronics being greater than Chromatic Isolinear, being greater than Duotronics.

The term 'Chromatic Isolinear ' comes from the Season 4 Writer's Guide. This, by looking up the meaning of the words implies a single color in use.
 
Multitronics being greater than Chromatic Isolinear, being greater than Duotronics.
Well the Ent (Refit) could be reduced down to a crew of Five for minimal operation with automation, and 'restored back to original condition' Ent-D similarly could be staffed by a crew of five as of the end of Picard.

It being Refit rather than A being an important distinguisher here given Refit was set to be sunset gracefully, with Ent-A implied to have been built with the new warp scale in mind, to me implying newer systems and capabilities given excelcior's captain was gushing over how 'modern' she was.

<aside>
Is positronics an outgrowth of Multitronics? Given Positronics could house a fully mapped human mind (Julia ... and later picard himself,) this gives the implication that Soong type androids could trace back to multi-tronics given M5's use of daystrom's own mind as a template.
</aside>

So it may be that these ships were built with high degree of automation from the onset with Enterprise (Pre-Refit) literally needed four times that many people for minimal viable operation status because of how analogue she was.)
 
The real problem is that during the 1960s no one knew just how much computational power it would take to even fly an actual airplane, at least for a digital computer.

The answer can be found in the 1983 McGraw-Hill Encyclopedia of Science and Technology. If you can find a copy, look under 'Digital Flight Control '.

If not, the simple answer is a 16 bit computer that operates at 5,000,000 instructions per second; has two megabytes of primary memory fifteen megabytes of secondary memory; an input rate of 750,000 bits per second. A display rate of 100 times per second. I memorized these numbers some time ago. These numbers are just for basic digital Flight Control...

Star Trek is out of date...

As to Multitronics, in the last year or so, it was reported that they(researchers) could now eeg readings from a wristband. This means that when combined with a personality test, Multitronic "like " systems can exist...

Meaning that each response to a question on the personality test improves accuracy of response, and when combined with a Large Language Model, means TROUBLE.
 
The real problem is that during the 1960s no one knew just how much computational power it would take to even fly an actual airplane, at least for a digital computer.
See also the clanking sounds when the computer was doing stuff. invoking the sound of teletypes at work.
 
Does isolinear employ FTL processing? I do not think Duotronics did.

I don't recall it being explicitly mentioned whether any of the computing technologies employ FTL processing. I'd like to think they do as that would explain how the Enterprise in "The Cage" and "The Corbomite Maneuver" have sensors able to track objects and distortions traveling at light speed or in other episodes tracking faster-than-light stuff.

The USS Enterprise with a full exploration crew of 430 personnel was required to have this number due to the limitations of Duotronics., for full blown exploration. The USS Enterprise NCC-1701-D, has a designed maximum crew complement of 6,500 personnel. Thirteen times the number of persons onboard the original Enterprise...according to Franz Joseph. Which is interesting, since it comes out evenly.

The size of the crew does not seem to be related to the limitations of the computing power. The Enterprise under Pike in "The Cage" had a full crew of ~200. Kirk's Enterprise fluctuated around 400 although we've seen him drop off 30 medical and rescue personnel without warning in "Arena". It seems that the crew number is dependent on the size of the ship, the equipment space and mission of the crew, IMHO.

A Multitronic M-5 Enterprise, had a crew of just twenty operational crew members, discounting the Captain and First, as well as Dr. Daystrom. This implies that a Galaxy class starship could be run by a crew of 260 crew, for the same effectiveness. As opposed to the actual operational crew of 800.

This gives us a better idea of the capabilities of the different systems. Multitronics being greater than Chromatic Isolinear, being greater than Duotronics.

Actually we see in the episode that after M5 is fully hooked up it didn't need the 20 crew that were onboard. It was essentially a Multitronic computer running all the tied in Duotronic computers on the Enterprise. Given that this was a test of the system the 20 were primarily engineers and support in case it malfunctioned and the ship needed repairs or had to go on manual backups.

In "The Menagerie" we see Spock use the computer to take the Enterprise to Talos, stop and retrieve Kirk's shuttle and then proceed, without human intervention. We've seen in "The Doomsday Machine" and "The Search for Spock" that you could get by on a Duotronics setup with even a far smaller number than 20.


Well the Ent (Refit) could be reduced down to a crew of Five for minimal operation with automation, and 'restored back to original condition' Ent-D similarly could be staffed by a crew of five as of the end of Picard.

If the Enterprise in "The Search for Spock" was fully automated without any battle-damage and prepped for combat she would have been a much more formidable ship even with their 5 crew, IMHO.


The real problem is that during the 1960s no one knew just how much computational power it would take to even fly an actual airplane, at least for a digital computer.

The answer can be found in the 1983 McGraw-Hill Encyclopedia of Science and Technology. If you can find a copy, look under 'Digital Flight Control '.

If not, the simple answer is a 16 bit computer that operates at 5,000,000 instructions per second; has two megabytes of primary memory fifteen megabytes of secondary memory; an input rate of 750,000 bits per second. A display rate of 100 times per second. I memorized these numbers some time ago. These numbers are just for basic digital Flight Control...

Star Trek is out of date...

If TOS actually stated what their computers were capable of then I'd agree with that line about being "out of date" but they never stated their limitations which gives TOS a bit of a timeless quality. The only thing we can say is that the series showed their universe preferred mechanical sounding and 60's aesthetics computer systems.

But as far as capability:
"Tomorrow is Yesterday" - a human-like personality updated into the main computer with an attitude that understood what was being said to it
"A Taste of Armageddon" - computer used to identify a deep-fake voice of Kirk
"Mirror, Mirror", "Wink of an Eye", "Day of the Dove" - computer asked to understand the situation and make recommendations...

Even the later series like Voyager we have the EMH which would eventually gain sentience and not need the equivalence of a nuclear reactor to power it so actual AGI plus power efficiency...

Those are things that arguably "Real Life" computing technology hasn't reached yet and probably won't for a while. Generative AI doesn't understand what they generating (see finger issue and how easy it is for researchers to jailbreak one). Deep-fake detection is a hit-and-miss affair, etc. :ack:

YMMV :)
 
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