So, we should disrespect the dead by saying "your best time was at this age as this character?"
I'm opposed to it simply because it says "your best days are behind you and we'll recreate them." Insensitive to say the least.
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I'm opposed to it simply because it says "your best days are behind you and we'll recreate them." Insensitive to say the least.
Yeah.... after giving it some thought, I really think this is a bad sign of things to come. If we keep bringing back actors after they have passed away, where does that leave the next generation of aspiring actors? New intellectual property is already so hard to come by. With things like this, new faces and performances will soon be hard to come by.
Honestly, and no offense, I find the presumptions of fans that they can speak for the dead on how they're supposedly disrespected more offensive than any CGI recreations I've seen. When the actors in question or their family start speaking out about how said actor is disrespected, then I'll be concerned, but not when presumptuous fans who claim to speak for them do so.
And I'm not presuming to speak for actors either, in all currently existing examples I followed the evidence which showed the actors or actors' estate had no issue with the CGI.
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I really am honestly of two minds on this. on one hand, stuff like this is clearly the future of makeup and prosthetic work, and none of the moral handwringing and clutching of pearls in the world is going to change that. Digital deaging and CGI masks are already a reality and aren't going away, and this tech is just the next step. On the other hand there is clearly a slippery slope involved.
On a project like this, I embrace it wholeheartedly. It was done with the utmost respect and the involvement of all involved. Sam Witwer has spoken as to how this tech allows more of the actors actual performance to show through as opposed to other techniques, and that makes a huge difference in the performance on screen. The real time nature of the process allows them to save millions in post-production work. Witwer has also spoken as to how this allows an actor to own an archive of their image at any age and have control of it, and therefore a source of potential income in the future in an age where residuals are drying up. All good things.
On the other hand, there is the creepy example of the "George Carlin" AI "comedy" special, which was done without the consent of the family and bordered on real world necromancy. A clear abuse of AI technology.
As with all things in this world, there are no absolutes and change is an inevitability. One must both embrace and beware of the future.
On a project like this, I embrace it wholeheartedly. It was done with the utmost respect and the involvement of all involved. Sam Witwer has spoken as to how this tech allows more of the actors actual performance to show through as opposed to other techniques, and that makes a huge difference in the performance on screen. The real time nature of the process allows them to save millions in post-production work. Witwer has also spoken as to how this allows an actor to own an archive of their image at any age and have control of it, and therefore a source of potential income in the future in an age where residuals are drying up. All good things.
On the other hand, there is the creepy example of the "George Carlin" AI "comedy" special, which was done without the consent of the family and bordered on real world necromancy. A clear abuse of AI technology.
As with all things in this world, there are no absolutes and change is an inevitability. One must both embrace and beware of the future.
And Carrie Fisher in Rise of Skywalker. And though he was still alive at the time, James Earl Jones's voice was created by AI in Obi-Wan.
I speaking to a general attitude of wanting people to basically to remain a certain age forever as far more offensive. That's where the disrespect I think comes in to play. I am not trying to speak for the actors, but to speak to an attitude that reminds me more of the Elves of Middle Earth desperately trying to hold back the effects of time.
If actors or their estate wants to do this, then that's fine. But, I'm not blind to the disrespectful attitude of basically saying "This is your place; remain here in time."
I forgot about Carrie, mainly because her daughter was fine with it. That being said, we do know there was a split in the Fisher family in the aftermath of her death and her daughter isn't even speaking to her uncle (Carrie's brother) etc. last I heard. Which leads me to my next point,
Despite my championing of CGI usage when actors' family give approval in my posts above, I do have to admit that even in that instance it's not so cut and dry. Family members squabble and may not agree about what the deceased actor would have wanted. In the current project in question, OTOY's Unification film reuniting Nimoy's Spock and Shatner's Kirk, it seems at first glance that all is good--Shatner has no problem with the his young CGI likeness being used, and Nimoy's family was perfectly fine resurrecting him via CGI for the short film.
HOWEVER, we also know that Nimoy died amidst a renewed feud with Shatner that Shatner has famously commented on that he did not know the reasons for the feud renewal. Furthermore, Nimoy's children have also supposedly told Shatner that even they did not know the reasons for Nimoy's renewal of the feud.
Shatner touches on this in his commentary for the short film, where he mentions that he personally has concluded that the COPD that was affecting Nimoy's health and killed him possibly affected his mental health and, basically, Nimoy wasn't himself when he decided to cut off Shatner. And this may very well be the truth.
But what if it wasn't? What if Nimoy did indeed out of sound mind make a decision to cut off Shatner and, presumably, wouldn't approve of any future collaboration with him, even via CGI? In this case, while Nimoy's children and Shatner meant well and produced this movie as a commemoration of their past friendship and as a gift to the fans, they were unwittingly disobeying what may have been Nimoy's wish to dissasociate from Shatner in the future.
And the thing is, short of magically resurrecting Nimoy and restoring him to full physical and mental health so he can comment on this, we'll probably never know the answer. At this point, either possibility seems equally likely.
My issue is not about the legal aspects but rather the fact that they look incredibly fake and pull me out of the story. It they had just had Guy Henry wear some convincing on set makeup I would have gladly accepted it and give kudos to the filmmakers for managing to find an actor that not only partly resembled Cushing but played the role in a way that made me forget I was watching a different actor… which is what good recasting always has been.
Instead, they went with a CGI monstrosity that I found incredibly distracting and did the opposite of what movies are supposed to do. The movie was already on shaky ground for me before his appearance, and when he finally did it made the film lesser.
The Rogue One tech is now massively out of date per Tony Gilroy himself: https://screenrant.com/star-wars-rogue-one-moff-tarkin-cgi-technology-discarded/ . Presumably Tarkin is showing up in Andor. Maybe wait a few months and see if the new CGI Tarkin still looks fake to you. Your complaints may be obsolete.
It won’t matter. Even if they present a new CGI Cushing that looks more convincing on the surface, it doesn’t change the fact it’s a CGI recreation.
I'm not "in a place to claim", I'm expressing an opinion!
In my opinion it's crass, especially Cushing, but also Carrie Fisher.
De-aging Hamill I'm not particularly bothered about, as obviously he was fine with it. Similarly Shatner for OTOY's work.
The problem with Luke was that it looked fake and didn't add anything to the story, except for taking you out of it and making you stare at the TV whilst your brain tried to work out what it was looking at. The Boba Fett episode in particular was not a good piece of TV. Even if it had been technically flawless, it would still have been weird.
I think with deceased people it's more of a dangerous area, as "estates" may have little to no actual connection with the person. Again, with OTOY they had agreement from Susan Nimoy. This is not always the case. Cushing has no living relatives. His estate is managed by his former agent.
My concern is really where this ends up. There's apparently a film starring "James Dean" in production. Other dead actors have been resurrected for commercials.
Maybe this is legally acceptable, and maybe you have no concerns morally, but artistically it's surely a dead end.
At the very least, it's an area where everyone should want to act appropriately and respectfully. I think we all know that the wider entertainment industry is incapable of that if there is money to be made.
Artistically, as well as to me socially. It's saying "please remain young forever" to actors.
I'm sure they would if they could!
Relatives and lawyers mooching off of dead actors doesn’t exactly inspire confidence. “They were compensated, it’s all good!” Sometimes it’s hilarious. Like when Bruce Lee’s daughter made a whole stink over how Tarantino use of Bruce Lee in one of his films, while at the same time she was licensing his likeness to be used to sell booze. It’s like something out of satire like ROBOCOP.
I suppose one way to look at it is to ask whether SNW would be a better show if Anson Mount's face was replaced with a CGI Jeff Hunter mask and his voice was replaced with an AI synthesised approximation of how Hunter might have delivered the line.
Would Solo have been a better movie if Alden Ehrenreich had been replaced with a Harrison Ford deepfake?
I would emphatically say no.
But to be clear, I found OTOY's short film to be quite a charming tribute to Shatner and Nimoy. That's why I think it's a matter of taste and restraint. I fear Hollywood doesn't know or care where the boundary lies.
Would Solo have been a better movie if Alden Ehrenreich had been replaced with a Harrison Ford deepfake?
I would emphatically say no.
But to be clear, I found OTOY's short film to be quite a charming tribute to Shatner and Nimoy. That's why I think it's a matter of taste and restraint. I fear Hollywood doesn't know or care where the boundary lies.
I personally liked the deepfake that I saw posted on youtube:
So you're saying you would have liked the movie to have done that throughout?
I wouldn't have had an issue with it. Yeah I guess my real world mind would be like "man Alden (or whoever) is basically just putting on a CGI costume" but when I go watch a movie, I chuck my real world worries at the door. That's literally why people go to see movies, for escapism--if we all thought about the behind the scenes shadiness, underpaid crew and actors, and other misconduct, we wouldn't even be able to watch anything. Nobody goes to these Avatar movies thinking about James Cameron's over-the-top infamous and unwarranted temper (people have said he's broken iPads on set in a rage, etc.)
Maybe if he was replaced with a de-aged actual Harrison Ford that might have helped. I dunno, the character not feeling like Han Solo was a problem but hardly the movie's only problem.
Also, I can think of a movie that really would've been improved with this technology: if they'd replaced Joseph Gordon-Levitt's face with with young Bruce Willis in Looper.
I'd argue we needed a young CGI Nimoy instead of Quinto for Star Trek 2009 (but obviously the tech back in 2009 wasn't there). JJ boasted that his film was for people who knew nothing about Star Trek. I saw the movie in theater with a woman from Tianjin, China, who literally knew nothing about Star Trek, and the supposed connection between Quinto's Spock and Nimoy's Spock was completely lost on her. A CGI young Nimoy would've made the connection for her. That movie experience and watching her be completely lost is part of why I'm such a big champion of CGI usage these days.
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