• Welcome! The TrekBBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans.
    If you are not already a member then please register an account and join in the discussion!

Spoilers All Things STAR WARS - News, Speculation & Spoilers Thread

And the Prequels also a hollow shell of OT glory too. Problems with Star Wars preceded Disney..
Wha--? You're not a fan of Hayden's "Pad-dum-may" delivery? How Jedi power levels shift according to the plot needs from film to film? How Mace--who did not trust Anakin in any case--did not sense his edging toward treachery as he (Mace) prepared to kill Sidious?
 
Wha--? You're not a fan of Hayden's "Pad-dum-may" delivery? How Jedi power levels shift according to the plot needs from film to film? How Mace--who did not trust Anakin in any case--did not sense his edging toward treachery as he (Mace) prepared to kill Sidious?
I know, I know. It's a shocking revelation.

Somedays I feel like the prequels get this rose tinted glasses viewpoint of being blindly accepted by the fan base and that was just not my experience. Even the Newsweek review of TPM was less than kind.
 
Somedays I feel like the prequels get this rose tinted glasses viewpoint of being blindly accepted by the fan base and that was just not my experience. Even the Newsweek review of TPM was less than kind.
The same thing will happen with the sequel trilogy. Eventually, the kids who grew up with the ST as their introduction to Star Wars will become more vocal in their love of the films and they will be looked upon more fondly. The PT was absolutely reviled when they came out. I had never heard so many negative comments and people in disbelief after walking out of a theater as I did after TPM. Then the kids grew up and opinions shifted... even though they are, for the most part, a shit show :lol:
 
I'm honestly shocked that people are actually talking about the prequel trilogy so positively these days. When they first came out people acted like they were the worst to have ever happened in the history of entertainment, but now all of a sudden people are acting like they're these great masterpieces and the title of WORST THING EVER has been given to the sequels. Personally, I prefer all three sequels over all three prequels.
And I still get a little irritated with the attitude that so many people seem to have towards Kathleen Kennedy, because I've been pretty happy with her tenure as CEO of Luasfilm. It really drives me crazy when people start blaming her for the creative side of things, when as far as I know she has absolutely nothing do with any of the creative stuff, she's just a producer and has absolutely no writer, directing, story, ect. credits on any of the movies or shows.
 
I'm honestly shocked that people are actually talking about the prequel trilogy so positively these days. When they first came out people acted like they were the worst to have ever happened in the history of entertainment, but now all of a sudden people are acting like they're these great masterpieces and the title of WORST THING EVER has been given to the sequels. Personally, I prefer all three sequels over all three prequels.
Yeah, it breaks my brain quite a bit. Off the top of my head, being in various fan group circles at the time (as I was in college), I heard that Lucas had raped people's childhoods, that he didn't understand Star Wars, that he had lost his touch, that he ruined the OT and should sell it to another company, like Disney.

Defending the PT, especially TPM and AOTC, was unwise. People were convinced that Red Letter Media's review captured all the problems of the Phantom Menace and those who liked it just liked the flashy CGI and choreography.

This is still truly bananas to me.
 
People were convinced that Red Letter Media's review captured all the problems of the Phantom Menace and those who liked it just liked the flashy CGI and choreography.
Rarely have I found myself in agreement with Red Letter Media, but they were right about the overuse of--pretty much Lightsaber porn of the PT, which has certainly played out in the majority of SW media since then. In the OT, Lightsabers were used when the story had a honest, rare reason for its use; it was not some toy (to be a "badass") or the first reaction to all conflicts, so more often than not, when it was used, there was some meaning to it, not the every-other-minute, idiotic majorette / circus twirling of the PT-forward.
 
People were convinced that Red Letter Media's review captured all the problems of the Phantom Menace and those who liked it just liked the flashy CGI and choreography.
People were dazzled because RLM pointed out things they should have noticed for themselves. Meanwhile, debunking RLM's false claims fell on deaf ears.
 
It really drives me crazy when people start blaming [Kennedy] for the creative side of things, when as far as I know she has absolutely nothing do with any of the creative stuff, she's just a producer and has absolutely no writer, directing, story, ect. credits on any of the movies or shows.

Bollocks. Even if she's contributing no opinions or directives whatsoever to story decisions (which I don't believe for a moment unless shown evidence to he contrary), she's the one hiring and firing writers, story editors, directors, etc., and that has absolutely everything to do with all of the creative stuff.

If the CEO of Toyota wasn't a mechanic, and couldn't fix a car or explain the basic workings of an internal combustion engine to save their lives, but oversaw the hiring and firing of the company as it introduced its new vehicle lines, in which major decisions about traditional gas engines vs. hybrid engines vs. battery engines were made, would one say they had "absolutely nothing do with any of the [mechanical] stuff"? That'd be preposterous.
 
Bollocks. Even if she's contributing no opinions or directives whatsoever to story decisions (which I don't believe for a moment unless shown evidence to he contrary), she's the one hiring and firing writers, story editors, directors, etc., and that has absolutely everything to do with all of the creative stuff.

If the CEO of Toyota wasn't a mechanic, and couldn't fix a car or explain the basic workings of an internal combustion engine to save their lives, but oversaw the hiring and firing of the company as it introduced its new vehicle lines, in which major decisions about traditional gas engines vs. hybrid engines vs. battery engines were made, would one say they had "absolutely nothing do with any of the [mechanical] stuff"? That'd be preposterous.
I'll admit, I don't know a ton about how things work at that level of a major corporation, but I was under the impression that the CEO makes the decisions about general overall the direction of the company, but the smaller individual decisions like those are made by other people.
 
^ So, you admit to trolling. Got it.

I'll admit, I don't know a ton about how things work at that level of a major corporation, but I was under the impression that the CEO makes the decisions about general overall the direction of the company, but the smaller individual decisions like those are made by other people.

There's nothing "small" about hiring and firing writers and directors of Star Wars movies when your #1 job responsibility is to oversee the production of Star Wars movies. A "small" decision would be determining a story arc/function of a minor character in one of Marvel's Darth Vader comics that only a few thousand people may buy, or the design of a gift shop at Galaxy's Edge.
 
Is she actually the one personally doing the hiring though? I had assumed that was usually going to be the lower level people.
And even if she is, they have pretty much all been involved with popular shows and movies, so it makes complete sense they'd be the people they're hiring. Hell, most of time people have been excited when they first announce that they're been hired.
 
She greenlit both The Rise of Skywalker and The Mandalorian. Gave us both The Last Jedi and Andor. As far as I'm concerned she's succeeded enough and with enough frequency to say that without her approval and oversight we wouldn't have the best SW in the Disney Era.

Yeah, some of it's kinda sucked. But then George didn't exactly have a spotless record.
 
She greenlit both The Rise of Skywalker and The Mandalorian. Gave us both The Last Jedi and Andor. As far as I'm concerned she's succeeded enough and with enough frequency to say that without her approval and oversight we wouldn't have the best SW in the Disney Era.

Yeah, some of it's kinda sucked. But then George didn't exactly have a spotless record.
This is my attitude as well, and one of the reasons I regularly revisit form posts elsewhere on how poorly Lucas was treated by the fandom. Star Wars was thought to be dead in some circles, much the way it is now.

Kennedy has a mixed record. So does Lucas. Lucas doesn't like Empire, and we were given Ewoks in response to one of the darkest chapters in Star Wars in Empire at the time. Then we got Ewok films and a cartoon. Ewoks were long despised by fans, and considered to be how "kiddie" Star Wars had become, vs. more dark installments like Star Wars and Empire, were gouts of flame and sparks popped off of people as they were shot or tortured.

I'd say Kennedy is doing about as well as Lucas.
 
She greenlit both The Rise of Skywalker and The Mandalorian. Gave us both The Last Jedi and Andor. As far as I'm concerned she's succeeded enough and with enough frequency to say that without her approval and oversight we wouldn't have the best SW in the Disney Era.

Yeah, some of it's kinda sucked. But then George didn't exactly have a spotless record.
Right on the nose. There were people that thought the Ewoks would kill the franchise forever. The prequels would have never stood on their own as an original story without the original trilogy to support them. Lucas had far from a perfect record.

Sure, Kathleen Kennedy hired JJ Abrams and Rian Johnson, but on paper, these were good choices. Abrams had genre cred and had recently revived the Star Trek franchise with great success. Johnson had Looper, which is masterful. Personally, I had apprehensions about Abrams specifically because of his revival of Star Trek, and those reservations turned out to be well founded, but on paper the Star Trek revival was very, very successful.

The fact that the sequel trilogy largely fails to live up to the standards that the fans had hoped for is unfortunate, but hardly a crime against humanity nor a death knell to the franchise, any more than Star Trek 5 or X-Men 3 were the end of those franchises. If a finger must be pointed somewhere, how about Kennedy's superiors at Disney who were so eager to cash in on their new investment that they greenlit a trilogy, complete with release dates, before having anything that even remotely resembled a story in place. Even then, the sequel movies were huge financial successes, achieving box offices that most franchises could only dream of.

And, as you said, she also green-lit the Mandalorian and Andor. And Rogue One, which is hugely popular. In fact, it is said that she was the one who made the recommendation that there should be no survivors from the Rogue One mission, which makes the story much more powerful. Ahsoka is my personal favorite of the bunch and season 2 is my most anticipated upcoming project. The Acolyte was flawed, but the premise was sound even if the execution didn't live up to its promise. No points off for green lighting that project. For me, the only complete failure of the Disney plus era, one that felt like a pointless cash grab, was The Book of Boba Fett.

Kathleen Kennedy is one of the most successful executives in Hollywood history, but she's only human. They can't all be winners, they can't all be runaway successes, and they certainly can't please everybody. The childish villanification of her over the years is both boring and tiresome.
 
Last edited:
The childish villanification of her over the years is boring and tiresome.
To me, it's beyond boring-it's bizarre reality bending absurdity. There is absolutely no need to treat her as the devil incarnate. No matter what us fans things, Star Wars just isn't worth it. It isn't that important. Lucas didn't rape childhoods with the PT, and neither did Kennedy.


It's confusing as fuck, and I don't say that lightly, because ultimate her choices don't impact my daily life. If a show comes out that I don't like...I don't watch it.
 
To me, it's beyond boring-it's bizarre reality bending absurdity. There is absolutely no need to treat her as the devil incarnate. No matter what us fans things, Star Wars just isn't worth it. It isn't that important. Lucas didn't rape childhoods with the PT, and neither did Kennedy.


It's confusing as fuck, and I don't say that lightly, because ultimate her choices don't impact my daily life. If a show comes out that I don't like...I don't watch it.
Once again, I must warn against the dangers of rational clear-headed thinking in a discussion about Star Wars.
 
If you are not already a member then please register an account and join in the discussion!

Sign up / Register


Back
Top