I mean, I can buy that, because plot, budget, and the need to get on with it.Because those actors are on the payroll. Star Trek does this all of the time, starting with the Mirror Universe.
Oh, and Star Trek makes less sense that you think.
The Confederation Timeline (Bizarro World)
- Thread starter Admiral Jean-Luc Picard
- Start date
It's a sci-fi trope as old as "Mirror, Mirror"
#1 – It’s a trope. The odds that they are simply clones created by Adam Soong or a descendant are very small.
#2 – it’s a parallel universe. Ship designs are the same in all of them, even in the mirror universe. The lone exception to date being the Kelvin timeline.
#3 – It’s a parallel universe.
#4 – Maybe. She not the prime timeline Borg Queen, and it seems like anyone can be a Borg Queen since Seven occupied a Borg Queen cell in S1.
#5 – They only had a connection because they were both alone for most of their lives.
#6 – Yes, as the Confederation boarding party were vaporized. And Elnor’s body was not from the Confederation timeline.
#7 – The caretakers of Chateau Picard took care of it. The caretakers hired were probably from the future.
#8 – Plot armour. Whether their Confederation counterparts were Augments themselves to make it more plausible is a complete unknown. Though considering Adam Soong’s importance to the Confederation timeline, and we see a Project Khan folder in the S2 finale, that’s entirely possible.
#9 – Synth body, made from 24th century material.
#10 – Possibly. Q does not follow time linearly, which has been known since TNG.
#11 – The Q as a whole aren’t supposed to disappear until the 26th century, according to Discovery. So likely just Q. That said, Seven never brings up Q’s wife and son for Q to comment on that, so we no nothing about their whereabouts.
#2 – it’s a parallel universe. Ship designs are the same in all of them, even in the mirror universe. The lone exception to date being the Kelvin timeline.
#3 – It’s a parallel universe.
#4 – Maybe. She not the prime timeline Borg Queen, and it seems like anyone can be a Borg Queen since Seven occupied a Borg Queen cell in S1.
#5 – They only had a connection because they were both alone for most of their lives.
#6 – Yes, as the Confederation boarding party were vaporized. And Elnor’s body was not from the Confederation timeline.
#7 – The caretakers of Chateau Picard took care of it. The caretakers hired were probably from the future.
#8 – Plot armour. Whether their Confederation counterparts were Augments themselves to make it more plausible is a complete unknown. Though considering Adam Soong’s importance to the Confederation timeline, and we see a Project Khan folder in the S2 finale, that’s entirely possible.
#9 – Synth body, made from 24th century material.
#10 – Possibly. Q does not follow time linearly, which has been known since TNG.
#11 – The Q as a whole aren’t supposed to disappear until the 26th century, according to Discovery. So likely just Q. That said, Seven never brings up Q’s wife and son for Q to comment on that, so we no nothing about their whereabouts.
Last edited:
I agree that the Xenophobia doesn't make sense, but it was explained why Adam was important to the Confederation and also why Renée Picard was important for the Federation.
Adam created the tech that contained climate change but not solve it, Renée found some sort of alien organism that solved climate change some how.
But what I mentioned before is that the Confederation apparently came to be because Renee Picard didn't go on her mission to Europa. So the idea seems to be that because she never went on the mission, that alien organism that solved climate change was never discovered. There is still a disconnect as to how this has anything to do with the creation of the Confederation and their hatred for aliens.
And Adam Soong's tech that contained climate change but did not solve it also doesn't explain why he's the 24th century poster boy for the alien-hating Confederation.
Am I missing something here?
If it's a parallel universe, there's zero reason to go back in time, just use the transporters to beam to the prime universe.
1. Protected from alterations made to the timeline by Q.I have some questions about bizarro world, the Confederation timeline. Buckle your shuttlecraft seatbelts.
#1 If the point of divergence is 2024; why do Picard, Raffi, Seven, Rios, Elnor, Juratti, or anyone else for that matter continue to exist in the alternate timeline? Wouldn't nearly 400 years of different genealogy mean that no one in the proper timeline will have a bizarro world counterpart?
#2 Why do the same starship designs exist in the bizarro world?
#3 Picard's evil Galax-class-looking Borg layer ship is awesome, but why does it mirror prime's Galaxy-class? It should be something entirely new.
#4 Is "this" Borg Queen effectively the same as the prime Queen up until the mid to late 24th century when making 1st contact with the Confederation?
#5 Do you think Juratti had that much influence over the Queen? I think the destruction of her entire collective, knowing her collective is in shambles but not "complete" destroyed in the prime timeline had impacted her heavily already. I like to think Juratti just "pushed" her off the cliff into that eyeroll of, "Fine, we'll try it your way, see what happens" kind of territory. What do you guys think?
#6 By the end of S2: all that's left of bizarro world is Juratti-Queen and the La Sirena, likely now the center of Borg whatever-we're-calling-it ship. Yes? No?
#7 What happened to the bodies in the walls of Picard's house when they moved back in? No questions, just make it go away?
#8 How did Seven and Raffi get back to the La Sirena with like 100 Borgified soldiers heavilly armed with guns and lots of ammo?
#9 How did Picard not just die immediately upon the hit-and-run? I want to be that spry mid-90's.
#10 Does this mean that Q was already old and near death when he first ran into the Enterprise-D in TNG's first episode? Has the Picard-crush just been Q screwing around before he kabooms?
#11 Do you think all Q were on their way our or just Picard's Q?
I have more questions, but this is enough for now. Have fun, Trekkies.
2. Same reason they exist in the mirror universe.
3. This is essentially the same question. The production crew wanted to preserve the "same but different" motif, complete with the "shock" the characters—and by extension, the audience—feel at witnessing perversions of familiar faces and institutions. In-universe, I guess we can surmise that Earth is preordained to develop the same or similar technology?
4. Yes, she is. The central premise of the Confederation timeline is that it's the Prime timeline with divergent events, but it strains (my) credulity to believe that all the characters with strong moral compasses are products of culture alone; there should be at least some genetic influence there. There isn't anything in the show to corroborate the idea that Q tampered with character personalities as well, but it would make more sense, which brings us to the next question.
5. Maybe? It's interesting to note that this Queen and the Prime Queen experience similar events, but they respond to those events differently. Even before taking Jurati's body, she projects an aura of vulnerability and subtle melancholy that the other doesn't. She still wants to bulwark the Collective from the future threat of the Confederation, but she isn't consumed by hatred and spiteful malevolence like the Prime Queen. Maybe that's due to recency? Our Queen has been defeated for over two decades, while the Confederation Queen was freshly beaten. Either way, she seemed more uniquely open to being influenced than the cartoon villain she's always been from the Prime timeline.
6. Yup.
7. Uh, maybe Q snapped them away?
8. Plot convenience.
9. Golem?
10. Q being a supposed non-linear being makes this hard to answer.
11. Just our Q.
Definitely.I am still not a fan of different timelines and parallel univereses, it still confuses me
Though, this one is all a Q driven fantasy. So the rules don't apply anyway.
I thought this was less Q fantasy and more what WILL happen if Renee didn't go to space.
If Q is involved, I take zero at face value. He's a trickster being who enjoys torturing humans in the name of his "tests." His attitude is one to create things as real as possible because that's the only way Picard will participate.
I doubt any of it "will" happen. But, Picard believed it.
I understood PIC S2 to be less of a Q fantasy world or "might be" scenario, or more this is what WILL happen if Renee doesn't go to space. Remember, Q is old or sick and dying, and his powers are failing, so he's not as capable as you think.
I don't trust Q for anything. He will do anything to manipulate Jean-Luc.
So, no, I don't think I'll take it very seriously. Mileage will vary as to the interpretation.
Fair enough. I took PIC S2 as "things are different, this time." If Picard and friends failed, the Prime Trek would be gone, and the Confederation timeline would be permanent.
Yeah, it all makes way more sense and gives way less of a headache if you think of it as all Q and not real time travel, although that wouldn't explain where whats-his-name stayed behind if it wasn't really the past LOL.
Nothing in the story matters if it's just a Q fantasy.
Adam Soong is hailed as the "father" and founder of the Confederation. There probably wouldn't even BE a Confederation if not for him. So given that Soong himself is extremely xenophobic, it makes sense that the Confederation would be as well.
Remember, Soong's personal credo - "A safe galaxy is a Human galaxy" - was adopted by the Confederation as its own.
Remember, Soong's personal credo - "A safe galaxy is a Human galaxy" - was adopted by the Confederation as its own.
I still fail to see how the Confederation arose because of him. (I fail to see how the Confederation arose at all, but let's just focus on Soong right now.)
Xenophobia is a fear, dislike of or prejudice against people from other countries, or things that are perceived as foreign or strange. I did not get that impression from Soong.
Was that his personal credo? Because I don't remember him ever actually saying that.
Last edited:
Answers to some of these questions are a little more forgiving than others - as had been mentioned by others, Season 2 has a bit of a messy vibe. I think one of the big missed opportunities was having an actor play a new 21st century character and not having the actor reprise his role from Voyager's "Relativity" given the time travel shenanigans - I think a lot of fans had their hopes up this was going to be a nice wink of continuity that went nowhere.I have some questions about bizarro world, the Confederation timeline. Buckle your shuttlecraft seatbelts.
#1 If the point of divergence is 2024; why do Picard, Raffi, Seven, Rios, Elnor, Juratti, or anyone else for that matter continue to exist in the alternate timeline? Wouldn't nearly 400 years of different genealogy mean that no one in the proper timeline will have a bizarro world counterpart?
#2 Why do the same starship designs exist in the bizarro world?
#3 Picard's evil Galax-class-looking Borg layer ship is awesome, but why does it mirror prime's Galaxy-class? It should be something entirely new.
#4 Is "this" Borg Queen effectively the same as the prime Queen up until the mid to late 24th century when making 1st contact with the Confederation?
#5 Do you think Juratti had that much influence over the Queen? I think the destruction of her entire collective, knowing her collective is in shambles but not "complete" destroyed in the prime timeline had impacted her heavily already. I like to think Juratti just "pushed" her off the cliff into that eyeroll of, "Fine, we'll try it your way, see what happens" kind of territory. What do you guys think?
#6 By the end of S2: all that's left of bizarro world is Juratti-Queen and the La Sirena, likely now the center of Borg whatever-we're-calling-it ship. Yes? No?
#7 What happened to the bodies in the walls of Picard's house when they moved back in? No questions, just make it go away?
#8 How did Seven and Raffi get back to the La Sirena with like 100 Borgified soldiers heavilly armed with guns and lots of ammo?
#9 How did Picard not just die immediately upon the hit-and-run? I want to be that spry mid-90's.
#10 Does this mean that Q was already old and near death when he first ran into the Enterprise-D in TNG's first episode? Has the Picard-crush just been Q screwing around before he kabooms?
#11 Do you think all Q were on their way our or just Picard's Q?
I have more questions, but this is enough for now. Have fun, Trekkies.
#1 - Given multiverse theory, they landed in that universe where they exist as they were in the setting of the Confederation Universe. Would have been interesting if they landed in the universe where it was Chakotay as first magistrate and married to President Seven
#2. Given multiverse theory, they landed in that universe where confederation ships were similar to Federation design. Would have been interesting if they landed in the universe where confederation starships were modeled after Kelvin Universe designs.
#3 - See #1 + #2 - would have been interesting if they landed in the universe where the World Razer was modeled after the Battlestar Galactica.
#4 - My understanding is the Borg Queen we see early in Season 2 is the Borg Queen from the Confederation universe who shared a lot of similarities to the prime universe counterpart, but was a different individual/queen. She was played by a different actress(RIP), so I always interpreted this as being a different version of the character. There has never been confirmation if the multiple Borg Queens in prime universe are the same queen, or different queens, or clones of same individual vs different, distinct individuals assimilated and selected to be queens. Its amazing despite how much of the Borg we have seen and been used, there still is a lot to explore. I found the Borg Queen Chambers from Season 1 of PIC fascinating in this sense - gave me the impression that cubes have tech only queens can access which would allow their escape in certain situations - makes me think the Borg Queen in BOBW used this to escape the cube's destruction. Sorry, got off track there. Different Queen, but similar.
#5 - have to rewatch Season 2 and think on this one a little bit. I do like the "push her over the edge" interpretation.
#6 - Yes
#7 - I got nothing. plot hole. Need to rewatch S2 and think on it, maybe the remains were found and removed in the years leading up to when the Chateau was renovated? Reclaimed by the soil and helped give Chateau Picard that distinct, robust flavor?
#8 - They adapted.
#9 - Synth body
#10 - I don't think it necessarily does. Q are omnipotent beings, and there is nothing to contradict that they can perceive / exist throughout time in a non-linear fashion similar to the Prophets/Pah-Wraiths. I think the bigger question that needs clarifying is - Do Q have lifespans that will run their course to a finite end? While "Death Wish" asserted that Q live forever, making alt-Q's suicide wish a major disruption to the continuum, the Q we saw in PIC S2 contradicts this. While omnipotent and all-knowing, perhaps the Q were wrong or embellishing with regards to this one aspect of themselves? Maybe they don't live forever, but it seems like that to us because their lifespans are close to near infinity? Time would certainly tell (pun intended) and Q certainly have the ego to make the claim.
Based on dialogue from the episodes themselves, the Q we saw from TNG - VOY was more or less the same Q around the same moments in time, give or take a few decades/centuries (AEB Q2s birth and subsequent development in Q2)
I suspect that Q in PIC S2 was a more seasoned omnipotent being who lived to the end of time / his life-time. (However many gajillions of years that may have been) He was approaching the end, decided to zip back to when Jean-Luc Picard was alive, albeit a bit older, and talk shop with regards to reaching the end of the road. To me, this makes the most sense and offers the fewest contradictions to what has been said about the Q before. It also gives leeway for his appearance with Jack Crusher - Q here would be that earlier version of himself.
See #10 - If all Q came into existence at the same time, I would imagine they all would go out at the same time, with the exception of Q2 and any other Q offspring.
It was in some pre-recorded voice clip, if I remember right.
Similar threads
