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What happened to the Ambassador-class?

Ambassadors were the B1 bombers of their time. B1's were supposed to replace the B52's but in the end the 52 will end up lasting longer. Ambassador was probably supposed to replace Excelsior class, but either due to politics, funding or design flaws they never became the next big thing. If we go with the idea that the Probert design was the prototype, then I'm assuming that there were engineering issues that couldn't be worked out, so they built the remainder handful utilizing more tried and true Excelsior designs or parts.
 
Ambassadors were the B1 bombers of their time. B1's were supposed to replace the B52's but in the end the 52 will end up lasting longer. Ambassador was probably supposed to replace Excelsior class, but either due to politics, funding or design flaws they never became the next big thing. If we go with the idea that the Probert design was the prototype, then I'm assuming that there were engineering issues that couldn't be worked out, so they built the remainder handful utilizing more tried and true Excelsior designs or parts.
The Ambassador-class is huge compared to everything that came before it, and it's honestly just an awesome design. It just baffles me that they didn't find excuses to have a proper shooting model to use regularly. If we're justifying its vanishing, probably the easiest to say is that Starfleet abandoned the design after the first batch of ships were made.
 
Pretty sure the Ent-B got its name from the probe crisis and Kirk helping broker peace between the Federation and the Klingons. If not for that, it might have just been any ole name.

In real life, an aircraft carrier's going to float on the ocean and be subject to the limitations of real-world technological limits. In Star Trek, these ships are out in space (no corrosion from water, no risk of sinking), and a mix of futurism and influence from extraterrestrial societies. It just doesn't make sense to retire the Ent-A as a 6-year-old starship when my car is older and doing just fine.
Not to be a smartass but I don't think aircraft carriers take photon torpedoes right through their hulls. I get where you're coming from but if the A was getting shit like that done to it on the regular over 7 years and the spaceframe was mangled, I could see them putting it in mothballs right quick.
 
The Ambassador-class is huge compared to everything that came before it, and it's honestly just an awesome design. It just baffles me that they didn't find excuses to have a proper shooting model to use regularly.

Because the timeline of Star Trek production didn’t require a new model to be built. DS9 did not require seeing other Federation starships on a regular basis because they were out in the boonies, and Voyager required zero other starships because they were on the other side of the galaxy. In DS9 they used the Nebula class model for a season 1 episode and then just reused stock footage of it for later guest starships docked at the station. Then Greg Jein made his Excelsior model for VOY’s ‘Flashback’ and it was used both in VOY and DS9 as a guest starship. And by the time we saw other starships in VOY, they had moved to CGI and there was no reason why they needed to create a CG model of an Ambassador class.
 
I like option #1. I don't disagree with the Constitution being "on its way out." Indeed, the Excelsior and Miranda seemed to have cancelled out the need for more Constitution-class ships. I don't imagine they'd all be retired at the same time, just no more new ones built.
If there was some logistical need that was unique to the Connies - or was unique by TFF, at least - Star Fleet might have retired them all very quickly just to make their supply chain simpler. That happens a lot in the real world. Granted I wouldn't expect there to be some part that the Connies used and the Mirandas didn't, but since we're all just scrambling for in-story justifications to a real-world production decision, it's a possible answer.
 
Not to be a smartass but I don't think aircraft carriers take photon torpedoes right through their hulls. I get where you're coming from but if the A was getting shit like that done to it on the regular over 7 years and the spaceframe was mangled, I could see them putting it in mothballs right quick.
True, but the original Enterprise got shot up and trashed on a regular basis and lasted 40 years.
 
Because the timeline of Star Trek production didn’t require a new model to be built. DS9 did not require seeing other Federation starships on a regular basis because they were out in the boonies, and Voyager required zero other starships because they were on the other side of the galaxy. In DS9 they used the Nebula class model for a season 1 episode and then just reused stock footage of it for later guest starships docked at the station. Then Greg Jein made his Excelsior model for VOY’s ‘Flashback’ and it was used both in VOY and DS9 as a guest starship. And by the time we saw other starships in VOY, they had moved to CGI and there was no reason why they needed to create a CG model of an Ambassador class.
Oh, I understand these real world reasons. Maybe I'm just in the minority of the Ambassador-class being a favorite Starfleet starship design. :shrug:
 
If there was some logistical need that was unique to the Connies - or was unique by TFF, at least - Star Fleet might have retired them all very quickly just to make their supply chain simpler. That happens a lot in the real world. Granted I wouldn't expect there to be some part that the Connies used and the Mirandas didn't, but since we're all just scrambling for in-story justifications to a real-world production decision, it's a possible answer.
I get retiring the class: no more ships built, but seems odd to retire all Connies, just because they're not going to build more of them. Just let each ship reach it's natural end. I didn't stop driving my car when it's make-model stopped being made. :p
 
Oh, I understand these real world reasons. Maybe I'm just in the minority of the Ambassador-class being a favorite Starfleet starship design. :shrug:

Well, from a production standpoint, VFX personnel don’t use a particular model because it’s their ‘favorite.’ They use it because it’s what’s available to them. And in the case of Star Trek production, they always preferred using stock footage instead of building and/or filming new models.
 
Well, from a production standpoint, VFX personnel don’t use a particular model because it’s their ‘favorite.’ They use it because it’s what’s available to them. And in the case of Star Trek production, they always preferred using stock footage instead of building and/or filming new models.
I understand all of that, which is why I said, "Maybe I'm just in the minority of the Ambassador-class being a favorite Starfleet starship design." What about you? Ambassador-class fan?
 
Yes, I like it. And I’m hoping that they show it or variants of it in the Section 31 movie, although I’m not holding my breath.
Why have Rachel Garrett? Might as well just make her generic Starfleeter. I feel like this movie's going to have some "Yesterday's Enterprise" connections.
 
I get retiring the class: no more ships built, but seems odd to retire all Connies, just because they're not going to build more of them. Just let each ship reach it's natural end. I didn't stop driving my car when it's make-model stopped being made. :p

Okay, I'll admit I'm feeling a bit frustrated now, because it seems like you didn't actually read my post. I did NOT say "just because they aren't going to build more of them." I said "because they had a unique logistical need." Your reply fails to acknowledge that difference, and that makes me feel like you didn't pay attention to my suggestion.

Let me say this in annoying levels of detail. :P

In the real world, various air forces and airlines have retired perfectly good aircraft designs en masse because some spare part was no longer being made, or because it used a unique type of oil, or whatever. These are organisations with dozens to hundreds of aircraft, and a huge cost to their business or military operation if an aircraft is not flyable. As in, people might die. Which means they won't fly an aircraft if they don't have spare parts available for it.

Having one aircraft design that needs a part that no other aircraft design needs makes supplying those parts harder and more expensive. They need to be built, shipped, and stored, and for the organization to be efficient they need economies of scale on the logistics side. It's not unknown for an air force or airline to decide that supplying those parts isn't worth it any longer, and retire the entire design in a very short period of time. Because then they don't have to store that one weird part, and they also don't have to worry about their plane falling out of the sky from a shortage of spare parts. And when this happens, sometimes the very newest examples of the thing being retired aren't very old and are still in great condition.

You handle your personal car very differently, unless you're an extremely unusual person. You probably don't store spare parts. And you certainly don't pay for the entire logistics chain - not directly, anyway. The company that sold you the car has taken on the cost of producing and storing spare parts, and has agreed to keep them in stock for a certain length of time. The cost of those parts is partially built in to your purchase price, sure, but it's not an ongoing expense you can just get rid of; and the company has agreed to supply and store those parts for longer than they expect you to keep driving the car. And, for the most part, if something goes wrong on your car it's an incovenience, not life-threatening. So you can afford to keep driving your car even after parts are hard to get, because if something goes wrong you call a tow truck, lose a day's work, and then rent a car for a fortnight until you can buy a new one. You're able to ignore most of the cost of keeping your car operational because someone else is maintaining a supply chain for you and because the cost of not being able to get a part is relatively small.

That's not true for an air force, and it wouldn't be true for Starfleet either. So it's really not that hard to come up with scenarios for why all the Connies would get retired in a fairly short time frame. Maybe their warp drives need some component a Miranda doesn't. Maybe those super thin necks were proving to be a really bad idea after all. Who knows?

This is, to be sure, entirely speculative and head-canon. There's no requirement for you to accept it as part of your own head-canon. But it's easy enough to make "lets retire every Constitution-class at once" a reasonable decision, if one wants to.
 
Okay, I'll admit I'm feeling a bit frustrated now, because it seems like you didn't actually read my post. I did NOT say "just because they aren't going to build more of them." I said "because they had a unique logistical need." Your reply fails to acknowledge that difference, and that makes me feel like you didn't pay attention to my suggestion.

Let me say this in annoying levels of detail. :P

In the real world, various air forces and airlines have retired perfectly good aircraft designs en masse because some spare part was no longer being made, or because it used a unique type of oil, or whatever. These are organisations with dozens to hundreds of aircraft, and a huge cost to their business or military operation if an aircraft is not flyable. As in, people might die. Which means they won't fly an aircraft if they don't have spare parts available for it.

Having one aircraft design that needs a part that no other aircraft design needs makes supplying those parts harder and more expensive. They need to be built, shipped, and stored, and for the organization to be efficient they need economies of scale on the logistics side. It's not unknown for an air force or airline to decide that supplying those parts isn't worth it any longer, and retire the entire design in a very short period of time. Because then they don't have to store that one weird part, and they also don't have to worry about their plane falling out of the sky from a shortage of spare parts. And when this happens, sometimes the very newest examples of the thing being retired aren't very old and are still in great condition.

You handle your personal car very differently, unless you're an extremely unusual person. You probably don't store spare parts. And you certainly don't pay for the entire logistics chain - not directly, anyway. The company that sold you the car has taken on the cost of producing and storing spare parts, and has agreed to keep them in stock for a certain length of time. The cost of those parts is partially built in to your purchase price, sure, but it's not an ongoing expense you can just get rid of; and the company has agreed to supply and store those parts for longer than they expect you to keep driving the car. And, for the most part, if something goes wrong on your car it's an incovenience, not life-threatening. So you can afford to keep driving your car even after parts are hard to get, because if something goes wrong you call a tow truck, lose a day's work, and then rent a car for a fortnight until you can buy a new one. You're able to ignore most of the cost of keeping your car operational because someone else is maintaining a supply chain for you and because the cost of not being able to get a part is relatively small.

That's not true for an air force, and it wouldn't be true for Starfleet either. So it's really not that hard to come up with scenarios for why all the Connies would get retired in a fairly short time frame. Maybe their warp drives need some component a Miranda doesn't. Maybe those super thin necks were proving to be a really bad idea after all. Who knows?

This is, to be sure, entirely speculative and head-canon. There's no requirement for you to accept it as part of your own head-canon. But it's easy enough to make "lets retire every Constitution-class at once" a reasonable decision, if one wants to.
I read and understand your point of view. What about replicators and post-scarcity society? How does this work into what you wrote? By the time we get to Voyager, they were able to design and build the Delta Flyer from scratch (twice) while stranded in the DQ.

Wasn't the Constellation-class also a retired ship by the time the Ent-D rolled around?
 
Not entirely.

Liam Shaw's Constance (active during the Battle of W359) was a Constellation-class though possibly a later build given its NCC-10XXX registration.

The Victory, a slightly older, but still potentially not Block I, Constellation was active from at least 2362 to 2374.

However, it is true that no Block I (NCC-19XX or 2XXX) Constellation is known to be active past 2300 in the primary material.
 
Not entirely.

Liam Shaw's Constance (active during the Battle of W359) was a Constellation-class though possibly a later build given its NCC-10XXX registration.

The Victory, a slightly older, but still potentially not Block I, Constellation was active from at least 2362 to 2374.

However, it is true that no Block I (NCC-19XX or 2XXX) Constellation is known to be active past 2300 in the primary material.
When was it established that Shaw's Wolf 359 ship was Constellation-class?
 
Not entirely.

Liam Shaw's Constance (active during the Battle of W359) was a Constellation-class though possibly a later build given its NCC-10XXX registration.

The Victory, a slightly older, but still potentially not Block I, Constellation was active from at least 2362 to 2374.

However, it is true that no Block I (NCC-19XX or 2XXX) Constellation is known to be active past 2300 in the primary material.

There is technically also a second USS Constellation featured in background displays in TNG, with a five digit registry, NCC-55817. It's very hard to see, mind.

And depicted by a generic image of an Orion Wanderer-class on the monitor (maybe could call it an image-squashed Cheyenne, at an pinch...;) )
 
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