Then the Martians showed up.
Did Starfleet Command Approve This, Kirk?
- Thread starter Spock's Barber
- Start date
When Anan and Kirk are arguing that humanoids are inherently war-like, Anan shouts "Your general order 24!", suggesting it speaks for itself regarding Kirk's war-like nature. Even though Kirk has control of the Eminian capitol, he doesn't object and say it wasn't real. He calls Scotty and cancels the order.
But that would also be the same if it was a bluff. And, to bluff the inherently war-like civilization, you would need a bluff / scare tactic that they would understand in their own terms. IDK. I can't rationalize it as legit.
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But he doesn't cancel it until after Anon 7 and Fox have left to talk to Vendikar—and every other native Eminian is 15 feet away. So he would be basically putting on a show for no one.
I think it was supposed to be part of his point that his brand of warfare is so horrific that they never actually have to follow through.
TOS Prime Directive was not as constraining as TNG era. TOS era Prime Directive was exclusive to not interfering with the natural development of pre-warp civilizations. The evidence from episodes indicates the PD didn't apply once the civilization knew about alien civilizations.
Reactions from the Bridge staff were as if General Order 24 was real. Nobody was confused as if they didn't know such a general order existed or they were not in on the bluff. Their reactions were people who did not believe it was a bluff.
It's reasonable to conclude the bridge crew would know what the general orders were.
It seems like in TOS there's this expected path of development for all civilizations (Hodgkins's Law?), and if a starship comes across a culture that's stagnant or not developing in the proper way, say, because they are serving a giant reptilian robot or because they are engaged in a perpetual virtual war or because they are ruled by a master computer, they are allowed to alter the culture to put them back on the correct path. Such things are unheard of in TNG where they wring their hands over whether they should even take action to save the lives of people about to die.
Which, really, comes across as pretty arrogant and maybe analogous to Western powers deciding that native peoples' aren't living right and need Western guidance.
There is a streak of "White Savior" in Star Trek
TBF, in TNG I'm not sure we ever really saw Our Heroes come across any similar scenarios? I don't once recall Picard saying that a civlization's intended path had been altered and that it was on them to restore it to what it should be.
I forget, how did they handle the female devil chick? But that was technically a TOS/P2 script.
Picard showed her to be an alien fraud who had taken advantage of the planet’s inhabitants. He then left it to the inhabitants to decide what to do with her.
So, he "broke the prime directive" to set them back on their natural path.
Well there was the added complication that Audra was also laying claim to the Enterprise and crew because they were in orbit of the planet when she “returned” to claim what she asserted to be her rightful property due to the terms of the age old agreement made with the inhabitants ancestors. So Picard found himself, like Kirk, party to an agreement they had had no say in. As such Picard felt he had no obligation to play or be bound by rules he had never agreed to, just like Kirk.So, he "broke the prime directive" to set them back on their natural path.
I think the closest we got was the Edo in the episode "Justice".
I bet one of those general orders involved forbidding the growing of a beard, hence the mirror universe... and Riker in any universe
Out of curiosity, do you know of any human civilizations that haven't followed the same general pattern development and the others? Because from where I'm sitting I'm not seeing any outliers.
Kirk would have convinced 'God' to kill itself, go away, or phasered it into oblivion.
Kirk would have convinced 'God' to kill itself, go away, or phasered it into oblivion.
your mere presence is stifling them! this is not a living, breathing civilization. YOU are the problem! What... gives YOU... the moral right or obligation!
and find a rule that its technically broken, and must hold itself to its own high standards!
Damn, I want this as a Phase 2 or 3 episode lmfao. (Phase 3 = post TFF mission in my headcanon lol)
There's not a chance in hell Fox could have possibly had the authority to give Kirk orders or to override him in any way.
Kirk, as captain of the Enterprise, is the absolute law. On the ship, Kirk is, quite literally, God. He's the captain, so what he says, GOES. That's the end of it.
Fox is not a member of Starfleet, he has absolutely no right to order Kirk around in any way. Kirk could have given Fox the gigantic middle finger and there wouldn't have been a damn thing Fox could do about it.
Hell, as much of a pain in the ass as Fox was, Kirk would have been well within his rights to confine Fox to quarters. I'm surprised he DIDN'T do that.
Fox is only an ambassador, nothing more. He carries no legal weight as far as Kirk is concerned. I mean, it's not like Fox is the Federation president or anything like that (under Federation law, the president is Commander in Chief of Starfleet, but Fox was certainly not that). Fox was just trading on his bluster, thinking that this would make Kirk back down. Fortunately, Fox lost.
As far as Kirk's actions towards Eminiar and Vendikar are concerned? It's been said. Kirk was defending his ship against a hostile intruder. He had the right to do whatever he wanted in that regard. The Prime Directive is null and void; Kirk's right of self defense is ABSOLUTE.
Kirk, as captain of the Enterprise, is the absolute law. On the ship, Kirk is, quite literally, God. He's the captain, so what he says, GOES. That's the end of it.
Fox is not a member of Starfleet, he has absolutely no right to order Kirk around in any way. Kirk could have given Fox the gigantic middle finger and there wouldn't have been a damn thing Fox could do about it.
Hell, as much of a pain in the ass as Fox was, Kirk would have been well within his rights to confine Fox to quarters. I'm surprised he DIDN'T do that.
Fox is only an ambassador, nothing more. He carries no legal weight as far as Kirk is concerned. I mean, it's not like Fox is the Federation president or anything like that (under Federation law, the president is Commander in Chief of Starfleet, but Fox was certainly not that). Fox was just trading on his bluster, thinking that this would make Kirk back down. Fortunately, Fox lost.
As far as Kirk's actions towards Eminiar and Vendikar are concerned? It's been said. Kirk was defending his ship against a hostile intruder. He had the right to do whatever he wanted in that regard. The Prime Directive is null and void; Kirk's right of self defense is ABSOLUTE.
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