I like the episode itself, but I also agree with the folks who thought Spiner hammed it up.
Re-evaluating season seven
- Thread starter AntonyF
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I quite like the creepiness of the episode; they did a good job redressing the sets. It had an eerie feel. I just wish Spiner hadn’t been doing the funny-voice parade (that high pitched one he’s fond of using is particularly annoying).
I don’t think the plot ultimately made much sense, however.
I also smirk each time it’s revealed the villain is a Greek eggplant dish.
I don’t think the plot ultimately made much sense, however.
I also smirk each time it’s revealed the villain is a Greek eggplant dish.
I actually like the Season 7 episodes. Weirdly it's not even about the quality of the episodes themselves but I have a nostalgia complex to the Season 7 episodes. Earlier in my day these are the episodes I remember the most.
I THINK when I was little, "Phantasms" and "Dark Page" were my first two episodes and these were the episodes that began my addiction to the series. Well, it was actually the dark corridor scenes in "Dark Page" that started it all because of how beautiful the dimly-lit corridors were and I liked how Troi looked in her blue science uniform and with what i call her Cinderella hair.
I had never seen "Thine Own Self" until the summer of 2005, a month or so following my middle school graduation. That's one of my favorite episodes because that scene of Riker telling Troi she'd failed her Bridge Officer's exam too many times to be able to take it again and Troi was angry about it. That scene was well-acted and I liked how Troi didn't let it deter her and was determined to pass and take it again only to then pass that time. Because there's the important life lesson this episode teaches that failure is success in progress.
Half-jokingly, it just would've been nice if Troi passing and earning her Commander rank didn't entail telling Holo-Geordi to go kill himself in the Jeffries Tube.
I THINK when I was little, "Phantasms" and "Dark Page" were my first two episodes and these were the episodes that began my addiction to the series. Well, it was actually the dark corridor scenes in "Dark Page" that started it all because of how beautiful the dimly-lit corridors were and I liked how Troi looked in her blue science uniform and with what i call her Cinderella hair.
I had never seen "Thine Own Self" until the summer of 2005, a month or so following my middle school graduation. That's one of my favorite episodes because that scene of Riker telling Troi she'd failed her Bridge Officer's exam too many times to be able to take it again and Troi was angry about it. That scene was well-acted and I liked how Troi didn't let it deter her and was determined to pass and take it again only to then pass that time. Because there's the important life lesson this episode teaches that failure is success in progress.
Half-jokingly, it just would've been nice if Troi passing and earning her Commander rank didn't entail telling Holo-Geordi to go kill himself in the Jeffries Tube.
I can understand that. For me, a lot of my feelings about Trek are coloured by what was happening in my life at the time. Admittedly, 1994, when season seven was released here in the UK, was a crap time for me and I don’t have much fondness or nostalgia for that time. I also do think the show was running on fumes and had been outshone by DS9, although back then I felt like the only person who actually liked that show.
A lot of valid criticism can be levied at the writing having lost some of its verve, but I think we tend to forget just how incredibly the production value of the show increased by that last season. Its arguably the most brilliant production quality of any show at that time. It's so amazing that even today, 30 years later, it largely still holds up.
By all rights, Sub Rosa is a thoroughly & rightfully derided episode, but just LOOK at it! It's a bloody stunning masterpiece of television production design. I mean, will you just LOOK at the f***ing composition of this shot!?!?!?!
Compared to this
By all rights, Sub Rosa is a thoroughly & rightfully derided episode, but just LOOK at it! It's a bloody stunning masterpiece of television production design. I mean, will you just LOOK at the f***ing composition of this shot!?!?!?!
Compared to this
Frakes was one of the best actor-turned-directors in the franchise. Quite probably THE best. Even if the script was not good, he always managed to make his episodes visually good.
(Not to take any credit away from the set designers, builders, etc. But Frakes definitely knew how to get the most out of everything available to him on his episodes.)
"Sub Rosa" is definitely a terrible episode, but it was shot well and had a great atmosphere and mood.
(Not to take any credit away from the set designers, builders, etc. But Frakes definitely knew how to get the most out of everything available to him on his episodes.)
"Sub Rosa" is definitely a terrible episode, but it was shot well and had a great atmosphere and mood.
Cause & Effect was directed by him too, & it is 100% as good as it is because of his directorial choices
Not a great episode you say? What's wrong with Zombie Granma sitting up in her coffin and shocking both Data and Geordi with lightning bolts from her fingertips like a sith Lord?
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That's the least of why it's such a bad episode.
Beverly reading a 'particularly erotic chapter' of her grandmother's diary, and Troi suspecting it gave her some erotic dreams... and her suggestion is reading TWO chapters? That entire scene is just cringeworthy.
And of course, her ghost sex. Hell, she looked like a crazed drug addict when she stormed into her quarters and lit the candle and he ghosted himself there.
^relax, I was just joking. It is a bad ep, imho.
I do find that 'zombie Grandma' scene really hilariously cheesy though.
I do find that 'zombie Grandma' scene really hilariously cheesy though.
And some say STNG doesn't have a halloween episode....
While none are outright Halloween episodes, TNG did horror and creepy the best (and more frequently) of all the franchise shows.
"Schisms", for example, definitely could fall into the horror category, and if memory serves me, it aired only a couple weeks before Halloween.
"Where Silence Has Lease", "Night Terrors", "Identity Crisis", "Violations", "Frame of Mind", "Phantasms", "Genesis", and others would all fall under horror/creepy/terror.
(A favorite of both my wife and myself, "Where Silence Has Lease", is played on our tv every Halloween since she started watching STAR TREK.)
A lot of valid criticism can be levied at the writing having lost some of its verve, but I think we tend to forget just how incredibly the production value of the show increased by that last season. Its arguably the most brilliant production quality of any show at that time. It's so amazing that even today, 30 years later, it largely still holds up.
By all rights, Sub Rosa is a thoroughly & rightfully derided episode, but just LOOK at it! It's a bloody stunning masterpiece of television production design. I mean, will you just LOOK at the f***ing composition of this shot!?!?!?!
Compared to this
To be fair, season 1 had a smaller budget (especially with new sets amortized into the cost) and had to establish itself, but I don't think anyone is going to say that Planet Scotland looks worse than Planet Lime'n'Lemon Soda Drink? Add in some rhubarb in the same way that the mint green was applied to "Planet Scotland" (now renamed "Planet Mint Julip") up there, and then you can call the bottom one "Planet Puke"...
Now imagine if "Hide & Q" had a higher budget. It, sad to say, still has a (far) better plot, relatively speaking, and no ghosts banging relatives was required to pique interest...
Honestly, it's not just Sub Rosa though. I've made a whole thread about Frakes directing Cause & Effect, & how it's really just a cheap bottle episode, but the production makes it really good. They truthfully got markedly better at shooting that show, as they got experience, which is expectable. Even Schisms is just ordinary fare, but how they make it is spectacular.
Hide and Q is easily excused for me. The planet is a completely artificial construct of Q, unless you think Napoleonic pig soldiers were also supposed to be a real alien race. It's supposed to look like a weird arena.
If you want a bad Season 1 planet, I would say Skin of Evil is much worse!
If you want a bad Season 1 planet, I would say Skin of Evil is much worse!
^^this
It's still better than Sub Rosa... I like the fact that the death of a main character came unexpectedly, because we all were thinking "Crusher will get her on her feet again - if not, get Data to do it." Neither had, at least in that episode but I digress. Indeed, for all the uneven and bad moments Yar had in season 1, few come close to how awful Sub Rosa does it (esp. for Picard!) Apart from "Justice", which made a mess of also-micromanager Riker too...
Then again, I'm waiting eagerly for more of her reviews of other fan-unfavorite episodes, such as this one:
True. It was just a quick example. There's plenty of others lol
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