Re-evaluating season seven
- Thread starter AntonyF
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Agree. It’s one of the most cringeworthy, scenery chewing performances I’ve ever seen on Trek. The monologues also just went on and on, which didn’t help. There were points I wanted to throw something at the TV as if that would make him shut up.
Spiner was always brilliant as Data. But whenever they let him do anything else, including Lore and Soong, he tended to get very hammy. Very “performative” acting; i didn’t feel I was watching a character, but an actor act.
Agreed. I don't mind him as Lore, being Data's Wario, but I think he's pretty bad as Soong in Brothers with the comedy "old man" voice.
But he's astonishingly good as Data. It's a strange one.
I also thought he was quite good in the clusterfuck that was PIC s2; don’t remember him being too OTT, although to be fair my memory of the end of that season is hazy.
Yes, I thought he was good in all his PIC roles.
Regarding liking episodes not liked by most...
I absolutely LOVE "Masks". For many reasons...
1. Really cool concept. I wish we got more truly advanced ancient cultures like this one in the franchise. (There are a few, but given how large and old the galaxy is, there should be more.)
2. We get to see Picard use his archaeology hobby and knowledge be used in the forefront, which is rare.
3. Fantastic acting by Spiner, which is even more impressive once you know that he had absolutely zero time to really prepare for this episode. (It was filmed directly after another Data heavy episode, "Thine Own Self".)
4. I love mythology, and this one was fully about the mythology of that ancient race.
5. Extremely well shot episode. The mood and atmosphere is very creepy. I love horror/creepy/moody stuff.
I also love "Genesis" because I am also a big horror fan, and this one was shot like a horror. Gates McFadden did a great job here... I wish she did a few others.
"Dark Page" is another one I like a lot because we get the WHY of Lwaxana. It explains so much of why she was so overbearing with Deanna and why she was so over the top with her zestfulness in life... it was overcompensating for the major tragedy of losing her child. It makes so much sense why she would be even more overprotective of her remaining child. It gave much more depth to Lwaxana as a character, retroactively... sort of the way that "The Pegasus" can be used to retroactively explain some things about Riker. (Though admittedly, that IS definitely the better of these two episodes.)
Yeah I really like Masks. I know a lot of people see it as TNG jumping the shark, but to me it was just a cool concept and makes space feel large and wonderful. Which I think is the vibe I was feeling lacking when I started this thread.
I do feel my thread was a bit knee-jerk, as the season does have some good episodes. I think I was just picking up on the budget issues that @Tomalak referred to, and DS9 at this time felt bigger and grander... I think the fact that this is the first time in decades I've watched both in sync as they were meant to be had an impact.
I do feel my thread was a bit knee-jerk, as the season does have some good episodes. I think I was just picking up on the budget issues that @Tomalak referred to, and DS9 at this time felt bigger and grander... I think the fact that this is the first time in decades I've watched both in sync as they were meant to be had an impact.
"Masks" is one of my all time favorite TNG episodes. Even though it's a season 7 episode (season 7 is my least favorite season along with season 5). Exception from the rule, etc etc. What I love about it is how it doesn't really care about what makes sense, it cares more about the premise of "ancient artifact turns starship into ancient temple". I love that. And Jean-Luc wearing that Korgano mask I mean lmao he looks so dorky and cute
As for Masks, IMHO half of the show's Data-centric episodes were groundbreakingly compelling sci-fi drama, & the other half were a show trying to throw bones to an actor who was walled into a character for 7 years, that otherwise suppressed any other opportunity to play something interesting, besides emotionless. In some ways, it's a prison sentence.
So I get it... but Fistful of Datas, & Masks, are awful. Datalore, & The Schizoid Man are passable but a little cringe. Brothers is about the only one of this type I consider a decent application of the agenda. Power Play was pretty good too, but if I'm being honest, Sirtis & Meaney are acting circles around Spiner in it.
After many years to consider the series collectively, I've had to face the reality that though I love Data, who's really one of the best aspects of the show, Spiner is not one of the show's best performers. He's very scenery chewing hammy, when outside traditional Data. The 2nd most versatile actor after Stewart (I mean c'mon) I must admit is probably Frakes. That's just my opinion though
So I get it... but Fistful of Datas, & Masks, are awful. Datalore, & The Schizoid Man are passable but a little cringe. Brothers is about the only one of this type I consider a decent application of the agenda. Power Play was pretty good too, but if I'm being honest, Sirtis & Meaney are acting circles around Spiner in it.
After many years to consider the series collectively, I've had to face the reality that though I love Data, who's really one of the best aspects of the show, Spiner is not one of the show's best performers. He's very scenery chewing hammy, when outside traditional Data. The 2nd most versatile actor after Stewart (I mean c'mon) I must admit is probably Frakes. That's just my opinion though
It's TOS-like yet not-like-TOS either.
We didn't see that often in the show's run and I'd argue Picard gets his best archaeology bits in this one. Patrick Stewart seemed to dig his role of the script as well...
Yikes. For zero preparation time, he nails it. I do think he gets close to being over the top at times, but such an immense array of character archetypes and he's nailing it one after the next, and with zero preparation (not even preparation H, probably, since - in this case - "H" can stand for "Hammy"...)
He uplifted "Thine Own Self", another oddball of a gem as well...
That is Star Trek to a "T" - new life forms and new civilizations. It's reminiscent of the Mayans or Aztecs, maaaaaaaybe too much so, but it doesn't not work, that's for sure. Would audiences want a prequel or anthology installment showing that species building this probe city thing? Not sure, but headcanon lets fans think what they want as there probably isn't enough interest or tact to really come up with a why for this probe. It's definitely a way for that civilization to live on...
Seconded. Robert Wiemer did a great job with direction. Given how well "Genesis" was directed, I wonder how Gates would have done "Masks".
^^this
I was going to skip that episode, but will be giving it a chance in the near future... I don't recall why I didn't like it previously..
Regarding Robert Wiemer...It's TOS-like yet not-like-TOS either.
We didn't see that often in the show's run and I'd argue Picard gets his best archaeology bits in this one. Patrick Stewart seemed to dig his role of the script as well...
Yikes. For zero preparation time, he nails it. I do think he gets close to being over the top at times, but such an immense array of character archetypes and he's nailing it one after the next, and with zero preparation (not even preparation H, probably, since - in this case - "H" can stand for "Hammy"...)
He uplifted "Thine Own Self", another oddball of a gem as well...
That is Star Trek to a "T" - new life forms and new civilizations. It's reminiscent of the Mayans or Aztecs, maaaaaaaybe too much so, but it doesn't not work, that's for sure. Would audiences want a prequel or anthology installment showing that species building this probe city thing? Not sure, but headcanon lets fans think what they want as there probably isn't enough interest or tact to really come up with a why for this probe. It's definitely a way for that civilization to live on...
Seconded. Robert Wiemer did a great job with direction. Given how well "Genesis" was directed, I wonder how Gates would have done "Masks".
^^this
I was going to skip that episode, but will be giving it a chance in the near future... I don't recall why I didn't like it previously..
He was very good with creating a creepy, moody atmosphere. He also directed "Violations" and "Schisms".
After lately digging into season 7 more than just the usual favourites I found an interesting (maybe) thing.
When you're thinking what to watch next and you browse through season 7 episode titles you might think, "oh, that one.... yawn"
But, lately I have watched an episode that might not peak interest at first but then while watching it.... it's quite entertaining. It might not make complete sense and all that but it's an entertaining 45 minutes.
When you're thinking what to watch next and you browse through season 7 episode titles you might think, "oh, that one.... yawn"
But, lately I have watched an episode that might not peak interest at first but then while watching it.... it's quite entertaining. It might not make complete sense and all that but it's an entertaining 45 minutes.
I am discovering that of the episodes I would occasionally catch in syndication I saw a lot of Season 7
>Time Traveling Alexander
We did not. Vigo was an irritant (why are all of Picard's supposed sons so irritating?)
Agreed. It was so much fun and I would put this episode on just for that mythology and acting piece.
By the way, what's wrong with Spiner in 'Masks', I thought he did a good job.
Also, I watched that episode today.
Also, I watched that episode today.
Neither is my favorite story, but his direction and camerawork for both of them was never less than sublime in selling a complementary mood that helped elevate the plot. (like Datalore, the plot is half-baked but the direction goes a long way in saving it.) "Schisms", a story about being abducted by aliens in UFOs, doesn't (IMHO) translate to kidnapping people on an advanced starship well, but the camerawork and direction and mood setting were perfect. It didn't help that the vague descriptions for the wood and metal tables being visualized by the computer so precisely (esp. for the metal table) was even more hokey. "Violations", one of season 5's better stories, nails the warm feeling with the ink painting at the start and really kicks into the creepy factor as the story went on.
I do like Firstborn. James Sloyan is always great, and I enjoy the Quark cameo as well as Lursa and B'Etor not being the villains. For once.
It also sets up Alexander for the next time we see him on DS9.
I liked that in several cases, there seemed to be some with the animal they devolved into.
Worf, the aggressive warrior, becomes a hunting top predator
Troi becomes an amphibian, an animal that is both at home in water and on land (water signs are often associated with intuitive types and empaths )
Barclay devolves into the animal he confronted at the end of Realm of Fear
Riker, the action boy who (at least in earlier years) had a this faint 'acting before thinking' -feel to him becomes a neanderthal.
I can't place Picard (lemur) Ogawa (ape), or Spot (reptilian) though
I truly love "Schisms". I thought it was very effective.
And one of two episodes of TNG that utilized the holodeck to perfection as an investigative tool. (The other being "Identity Crisis". Interesting coincidence, Brannon Braga wrote the teleplay for both.)
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