21st Century Books and 21st Century Slang

[hbquikcomjamesl]

I can think of one minced imprecation against the current POTUS that had me scratching my head, wondering who they were talking about, for several hours until I found out what it meant. And when it came up again, it became the reason why I ask Museum visitors to avoid partisan politics on their Linotype slugs.

And yes, I'm pretty sure McCoy said "Damn," and several variations thereof, more than once during the 3-season run of TOS.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Kirk said "hell" once.

 

[hbquikcomjamesl]

invented slang and creative cursing stand the test of time better.

If it's done right. And if it's done wrong, it sounds like a bunch of frack'n felgerkarb. Or bantha poodoo.

And of course, if one uses obscure obscenity, it can have a delayed effect, when the readers/listeners/viewers finally work up enough morbid curiosity to look it up. Do it well, and they'll abruptly become pale. Do it really well, and they'll abruptly become pale, diaphoretic, and maybe even nauseous.

 

[David cgc]

I'm suddenly remembering a scene in one of the Ancillary Justice books, where a character who'd been in suspended animation for a thousand years sees something truly horrific and utters the most explicit and blasphemously profane curse she knows. She's shocked when the person she's with says she's never heard that said outside of an old historical movie (They let people say that in movies now?) and doubly so when she's told that it makes her sound like a dashing old-timey hero (The heroes say that in movies?!).

 

[KRAD]

No one on the original series ever said "damn." Not McCoy, nor anyone else. It wasn't allowed. They had to fight Broadcast Standards and Practices to allow Kirk to use "hell" as an interjection once in "The City on the Edge of Forever." (It could be used to describe a mythical place, hence the use of it in "The Doomsday Machine," but that's it.)

McCoy used "damn" quite a bit in the movies, as did many other characters. But never, not once, on the TV series. The only reason people think otherwise is because of the proliferation of "Dammit, Jim!" memes. But those are all from the movies. (Then again, Kirk's reputation as a maverick who breaks all the rules is 100% an artifact of the movies, as there's NOTHING to support that notion anywhere in the original series.)

And I laugh every time someone says that Trek used to be "family friendly," and hoo-hah, was it not. They were constantly pushing the boundaries of what was allowed on network TV of the era, including that use of "let's get the hell out of here" in "City" (which was way way way more "edgy" and "controversial" on network TV in 1967 than Tilly's use of "this is so fucking cool" was 50 years later on a streaming service), as well as near-constant pushing of costuming boundaries. It looks family friendly now because standards have changed.

In 1979, Hawkeye said, "You bastard," on M*A*S*H; a year later Dorsey said, "You're right, he's a real bastard" on Barney Miller, and in both cases it was hugely controversial and unexpected, and in both cases the producers had to fight for a one-time use of the thing. Anybody watching reruns of either wouldn't even notice it in either case.

Times change. Standards change.

 

[carcinoGeneticist]

This downhill cursing spiral all started with Data's 'Oh shit!' in Generations.

 

[fireproof78]

The word and it's use has been attested to 1600s, so the idea that it would evolve out is as fanciful to me as a transporter.

And for more on the history I would highly recommend Nicholas Cage's series on Netflix.

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And I laugh every time someone says that Trek used to be "family friendly," and hoo-hah, was it not. They were constantly pushing the boundaries of what was allowed on network TV of the era, including that use of "let's get the hell out of here" in "City" (which was way way way more "edgy" and "controversial" on network TV in 1967 than Tilly's use of "this is so fucking cool" was 50 years later on a streaming service), as well as near-constant pushing of costuming boundaries. It looks family friendly now because standards have changed.

I like that too. From horror plots, to violent deaths and implied sex it was an action/adventure show through and through.

Swearing is the least of my objections for some of Trek's content.

 

[Christopher]

No one on the original series ever said "damn." Not McCoy, nor anyone else. It wasn't allowed. They had to fight Broadcast Standards and Practices to allow Kirk to use "hell" as an interjection once in "The City on the Edge of Forever." (It could be used to describe a mythical place, hence the use of it in "The Doomsday Machine," but that's it.)

There's also Lazarus saying "I'll chase you to the very fires of Hell!" in "The Alternative Factor," Kirk quoting "Better to rule in Hell than serve in Heaven" in "Space Seed," McCoy describing Tombstone as "Hell-for-leather" in "Spectre of the Gun," and Kirk referring to people's "private hells" in "Requiem for Methuselah." Which is more uses than I thought.

Chakoteya's transcripts claim that Krako says "How the hell'd I get here?" when he's beamed up in "A Piece of the Action," but I checked, and it's actually just "How, ha-how'd I get here?"

McCoy used "damn" quite a bit in the movies, as did many other characters. But never, not once, on the TV series.

Kirk did use "damn" a couple of times, but not as an expletive -- "The evidence... was damning" in "Court Martial" and "I can't damn him for his loyalty" in "Journey to Babel."

The only reason people think otherwise is because of the proliferation of "Dammit, Jim!" memes. But those are all from the movies.

The one and only time that DeForest Kelley's McCoy (as opposed to Karl Urban's) said "Dammit, Jim" was in The Wrath of Khan -- "Dammit, Jim, what the hell's the matter with you?" I think the meme comes largely from Dan Aykroyd in classic the Saturday Night Live Trek skit, where he said "Dammit" twice. And I suspect its association with "I'm a doctor..." may have originated with a T-shirt slogan, which I suspect is where the "Beam me up, Scotty" meme came from too.

And I laugh every time someone says that Trek used to be "family friendly," and hoo-hah, was it not. They were constantly pushing the boundaries of what was allowed on network TV of the era, including that use of "let's get the hell out of here" in "City" (which was way way way more "edgy" and "controversial" on network TV in 1967 than Tilly's use of "this is so fucking cool" was 50 years later on a streaming service), as well as near-constant pushing of costuming boundaries. It looks family friendly now because standards have changed.

Exactly. It was specifically created to be an adult drama, and Roddenberry made it as sexy and racy as he could get away with. It's just that censorship was far more strict then, so even the most adult shows seem tame by today's standards.

It's like movies. When the Hays Code was in effect prior to 1967, all movies were equally restricted in their depiction of sex, violence, profanity, etc. But then they introduced the MPAA system that allowed more adult content under the R rating or above. With TV, the FCC restricted adult content on commercial TV, but subscription cable and satellite TV was free from those restrictions and able to feature adult content, and that led to the climate we have today where a lot of shows have graphic violence, language, nudity, etc. and shows that lack those things are seen as family-friendly. But it used to be the norm for everything, no matter how adult the target audience.

 

[hbquikcomjamesl]

And of course, Jack Valenti never anticipated that filmmakers would (1) release outright pornography, and wear "X" as a badge of honor, (2) object to having a "X" applied to a non-pornographic film that was neither intended nor suitable for minors, (3) release films that would only appeal to young children, or (4) object to having a "G" applied to a family-friendly film that would appeal to adults. Nor did he anticipate the general public (1) thinking "M" was between "R" and "X," rather than between "G" and "R," (2) thinking "GP" meant "General Public," or (3) thinking the ratings were about anything other than family-friendliness.

And as for television of the TOS era, the restrictions on language and content meand that effectively everything was required to be family-friendly (I seem to recall that one of the early ST nonfiction books, probably TMOST, used the term "as inoffensive as vanilla pudding"), even (to a certain extent) including such late-night fare as Peyton Place.

And ST was definitely not Peyton Place.

 

[The Wormhole]

As also noted, Trek often got away with swearing in the old days by having the profanity be in a different language, like when Picard said "merde" (the French word for shit) in TNG's first season or by using words which are considered profane outside the US, but inoffensive within the US. I remember years ago reading something online from a person who lived in Britain say they were totally surprised when they were visiting the US that O'Brien saying "bullocks" was uncensored, claiming that always gets bleeped when that episode aired in Britain. Though since then, there have been British people on this very forum who have denied that's the case.

 

[F. King Daniel]

As also noted, Trek often got away with swearing in the old days by having the profanity be in a different language, like when Picard said "merde" (the French word for shit) in TNG's first season or by using words which are considered profane outside the US, but inoffensive within the US. I remember years ago reading something online from a person who lived in Britain say they were totally surprised when they were visiting the US that O'Brien saying "bullocks" was uncensored, claiming that always gets bleeped when that episode aired in Britain. Though since then, there have been British people on this very forum who have denied that's the case.

This reminds me of an American wrestling show getting away with a British character saying "bloody wankers" once or twice because the American TV people had no clue what it meant.

 

[hbquikcomjamesl]

Picard's use of "merde" frequently reminds me of the ending of 9 to 5, when Roz returns from her trip to France, sees all the changes made in her absence, and says "Holy merde." (In the network TV version, that got dubbed with "Mon Dieu").

Amazing: the Cliff's Notes website has an 11-page PDF plot summary of 9 to 5. (As I recall, there's at least one classic book [The Canterbury Tales, I think] for which I had the hardcopy Cliff's Notes close at hand.)

 

[Laura Cynthia Chambers]

Fake fantasy/alien cursing sounds weird either because it's brand new (you never heard that phrase before) and/or there's no context to it. You don't know where the word or phrase came from.

I much prefer "bit back a curse" or "let out a string of curses" or "mumbled/growled something unintelligible". You can skip right over imagining what the words might be or mean if you want, just know the person is angry or shocked.

 

[Christopher]

Fake fantasy/alien cursing sounds weird either because it's brand new (you never heard that phrase before) and/or there's no context to it. You don't know where the word or phrase came from.

How many people know where English profanities come from, though? How many people know where any of the words they use come from? Me, I'm an etymology nerd, but the majority of people have probably never looked up a word origin in their lives.

 

[Laura Cynthia Chambers]

I am not one of those people.

Plus fake curse words sound like gibberish ("froopy madoodle", "glidbing snorp" and such - I just made those up myself, but you get the idea.

The Arthur episode "Bleep" uses the titular sound to stand in for the word being used by D.W. after she overhears an older kid say it and get a shocked reaction from his mom. https://arthur.fandom.com/wiki/Bleep/Transcript

 

[fireproof78]

I am not one of those people.

Plus fake curse words sound like gibberish ("froopy madoodle", "glidbing snorp" and such - I just made those up myself, but you get the idea.

The Arthur episode "Bleep" uses the titular sound to stand in for the word being used by D.W. after she overhears an older kid say it and get a shocked reaction from his mom. https://arthur.fandom.com/wiki/Bleep/Transcript

 

[Laura Cynthia Chambers]

I wonder what book he was reading.

 

[Una McCormack]

I think one of those “fucks” is technically a “clusterfuck”.

 

[hbquikcomjamesl]

I suddenly find myself thinking about my first time reading David Gerrold's When HARLIE Was One. I was a freshman or sophomore in high school at the time. And the only thing that shocked me more than the casual (and commercialized) marijuana use ("Highmasters"?!?) was the explicit sex.

 

[DarrenTR1970]

In 1979, Hawkeye said, "You bastard," on M*A*S*H; a year later Dorsey said, "You're right, he's a real bastard" on Barney Miller, and in both cases it was hugely controversial and unexpected, and in both cases the producers had to fight for a one-time use of the thing. Anybody watching reruns of either wouldn't even notice it in either case.

Times change. Standards change.

I don't have my book handy but it's called 'Bloopers Bloopers Bloopers' and it has an entry in it where during a live tv broadcast in the 1950s the actor was supposed to say, 'You old buzzard, how are you doing?' And he slipped up and said, 'You old bastard, how are you doing?', to the shock of the other actors and the live tv audience.