Babylon 5

[Anwar]

Super contrived, however, how many "sleeper agents" did Bester have out there roaming around looking for trouble? 100s? Thousands? It's weird that Garibaldi earned his freedom so quickly by uncovering a really dangerous conspiracy, when Bester may have been planning on keeping Michael on the hook for decades, looking for any and every unspecified problem that may annoy annoy the telepaths.

Oh yeah, that whole "Bester Brainwashing" thing. The only reason THAT was done was because the writers realized that there'd be no way to continue Garibaldi as a main character after betraying Sheridan like that so they had to throw in the "He's brainwashed" thing!

And of course, Sheridan and Garibaldi making up happened off screen too.

 

[David cgc]

It was hardly a retcon. The first moment we see Garibaldi after he was kidnapped in the season 3 finale, he’s being questioned to verify his memory is erased and then a short guy in a black uniform comes in after he’s been gassed. The next time, there’s brainwashing lights and a voice saying “activate program,” everyone comments on how much more confrontational and suspicious Garibaldi is, and then there’s another brainwashing video before he quits.

It is an oversight that Sheridan and Garibaldi never really have it out, though. I can see how it happened with the stress and confusion of the compressed end of season 4 and rushed start to season 5, and it’s fairly easy to see how the bizarre circumstances would’ve made it a hard conversation to work in.

 

[DonIago]

I think the part of that I found most perplexing was that Our Heroes seemingly never really considered, much less pursued, the idea that the G-man had been telepathically manipulated. Given their experiences with Bester, and especially given their experiences with the Shadows using humans to power their machines (I know they checked to see whether Garibaldi had been 'plugged in', but that's where the examination seemed to stop), I would have thought they'd be nearly paranoid about that, especially when the Garibaldi they found was so significantly different from the one they'd lost.

 

[Forbin]

Something that I must have misinterpreted at the time was Michael starting to drink again. It was my belief that he intentionally started drinking in an attempt to short-circuit Bester's mind control. I thought it was a desperate but intentional plan to free himself, which would hopefully end in him being able to attack Bester. But no, it turned out to be a real (reel) fall off the wagon.

 

[Anwar]

It was hardly a retcon. The first moment we see Garibaldi after he was kidnapped in the season 3 finale, he’s being questioned to verify his memory is erased and then a short guy in a black uniform comes in after he’s been gassed. The next time, there’s brainwashing lights and a voice saying “activate program,” everyone comments on how much more confrontational and suspicious Garibaldi is, and then there’s another brainwashing video before he quits.

It is an oversight that Sheridan and Garibaldi never really have it out, though. I can see how it happened with the stress and confusion of the compressed end of season 4 and rushed start to season 5, and it’s fairly easy to see how the bizarre circumstances would’ve made it a hard conversation to work in.

Not a retcon, but a lame cop-out approach. Instead of Garibaldi having legitimate beefs with how Sheridan was purposely exploiting his status and reputation to make himself a Cult of Personality and betraying him of out legit concerns that he's not a Blessed Holy Man but acting like one, it turns out he HAD to be brainwashed and this couldn't be legit character conflict between them.

 

[Farscape One]

Something that I must have misinterpreted at the time was Michael starting to drink again. It was my belief that he intentionally started drinking in an attempt to short-circuit Bester's mind control. I thought it was a desperate but intentional plan to free himself, which would hopefully end in him being able to attack Bester. But no, it turned out to be a real (reel) fall off the wagon.

I used to think the same thing.

 

[DonIago]

Something that I must have misinterpreted at the time was Michael starting to drink again. It was my belief that he intentionally started drinking in an attempt to short-circuit Bester's mind control. I thought it was a desperate but intentional plan to free himself, which would hopefully end in him being able to attack Bester. But no, it turned out to be a real (reel) fall off the wagon.

I kind of thought it was both. Maybe that was why he started drinking, knowing the effects it would have but hoping it would weaken the blocks Bester left in his head, but he didn't appreciate how much it would otherwise compromise him and how little it would matter with regards to the telepathic blocks.

That said, I think I may have asked on the Lurker's Guide whether a Death of Personality-style mindwipe could cure alcoholism, or whether you'd just end up with a 'new' person who didn't even know they were an alcoholic.

 

[Guy Gardener]

I kind of thought it was both. Maybe that was why he started drinking, knowing the effects it would have but hoping it would weaken the blocks Bester left in his head, but he didn't appreciate how much it would otherwise compromise him and how little it would matter with regards to the telepathic blocks.

That said, I think I may have asked on the Lurker's Guide whether a Death of Personality-style mindwipe could cure alcoholism, or whether you'd just end up with a 'new' person who didn't even know they were an alcoholic.

Google assures me that there is a gene.

 

[Chakoteya]

Google assure me that there is a gene.

But that it only accounts for about half the likelihood of your 'addictive' personality leading to actual addiction. Nurture / choice also counts.

Is Alcoholism Hereditary? The Genetic Factors Behind Alcohol Addiction | Find Rehab

Alcoholism tends to run in families, but is it hereditary? This in-depth article explores the genetic and environmental factors that influence alcohol addiction risk.

www.findrehab.co.uk

 

[Guy Gardener]

But that it only accounts for about half the likelihood of your 'addictive' personality leading to actual addiction. Nurture / choice also counts.

Is Alcoholism Hereditary? The Genetic Factors Behind Alcohol Addiction | Find Rehab

Alcoholism tends to run in families, but is it hereditary? This in-depth article explores the genetic and environmental factors that influence alcohol addiction risk.

www.findrehab.co.uk

I seem to recall some work of fiction where two split personalities living in the same noggin had different allergies.

Although I'm thinking that the telepthatic executioner would put blocks or triggers into a fresh brain, to make sure that serial killers faint at the sight of blood, or drunk drivers have a prolonged sneezing fit at the first whiff of hooch, so that the convicts second chance really is a second chance.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Bester, from psi-corp. Walter Koenig's best work.

What about "The Star Lost"?

Just finished watching b5 blow up because it was a hazard to navigation...

I know they didn't know about anything after Sinclair left when the were deciding which Babylon Station to take, and they took Babylon 4, because they always took Babylon 4 but seriously it would have been way less stressful to buy a decommissioned B5 and ride it back towards prehistory, rather than allowing their friend, the space station, to be put out of its missery.

Although if the ancient minbari had b5 in stead of b4, it was a smaller gun, and they would gave lost the war, but the vorlon/minbari tech upgrades were really impressive, so b5 from 2380ish is a bigger gun than b4 from 2352ish, even though B4 was literally bigger.

Although...

If Sheridan does not space Jack Babylon 4, Babylon 5 is never built.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

They probably took Babylon 4 because 1) it was the largest of all Babylon stations, and 2) it could be safely moved - IIRC, it was the only Babylon station that had engines.

(That's also why B4 had two sections rotating in opposite directions, so the net rotation of the whole station would be zero - thus making it easier to move.)

 

[Sparkle Fabulosa]

I just finished a second rewatch. Still want to try Legend of the Rangers and obviously a second watch of In The Beginning. Also the animated movie. I did not like A Call To Arms. I tried the first two episodes of Crusade. Didn’t really grab me.

Babylon 5 is better than all of Star Trek and Star Wars! Yeah. I said what I said.

 

[diankra]

It was hardly a retcon. The first moment we see Garibaldi after he was kidnapped in the season 3 finale, he’s being questioned to verify his memory is erased and then a short guy in a black uniform comes in after he’s been gassed. The next time, there’s brainwashing lights and a voice saying “activate program,” everyone comments on how much more confrontational and suspicious Garibaldi is, and then there’s another brainwashing video before he quits.

It is an oversight that Sheridan and Garibaldi never really have it out, though. I can see how it happened with the stress and confusion of the compressed end of season 4 and rushed start to season 5, and it’s fairly easy to see how the bizarre circumstances would’ve made it a hard conversation to work in.

I was in the SFX team when the season five renewal came though and jms lost his notes (he was moved to a different room so the mother of the bride could have the room above her daughter, as per Jewish tradition, and the cleaner binned his stuff).

 

[diankra]

I just finished a second rewatch. Still want to try Legend of the Rangers and obviously a second watch of In The Beginning. Also the animated movie. I did not like A Call To Arms. I tried the first two episodes of Crusade. Didn’t really grab me.

Babylon 5 is better than all of Star Trek and Star Wars! Yeah. I said what I said.

Which order of Crusade. The TX first episode was forced on jms, as the network wanted a new intro.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Which order of Crusade. The TX first episode was forced on jms, as the network wanted a new intro.

TV order.

We had a creative order, but I had a storage inconvenience, and lost a lot of MEDIA a few years ago, so I'm scurrying about, just to get anything in front of her....

Episode 2, and it's a buddy movie with Galen and Gideon... BUT HE HASN'T JOINED THE CREW YET!!!!

 

[diankra]

Yeah, there are three orders. TX, recording, and the jms one (which has uniforms swapping randomly).

 

[David cgc]

More than that. Crusade's like The Prisoner in that respect, there are plenty of opinions for which order makes the most sense (I have my own).

 

[Sparkle Fabulosa]

I thought The Legend of the Rangers was fantastic! I liked the crew and the story. The dialogue was filled with nice bits of humour too! Seeing G’Kar again was an added bonus. Shame it didn’t get picked up.

 

[diankra]

More than that. Crusade's like The Prisoner in that respect, there are plenty of opinions for which order makes the most sense (I have my own).

Yep, the Prisoner has multiple orders, including TX, taking the internal dates literally, and No.6's attitude (implying whether he's new there or used to the games).