TNG Cast's Opinions on Generations Director

[tim0122]

The TNG cast have talked a lot about Frakes's and Baird's direction, but I've never seem them talk about David Carson, who directed Generations and a handful of TNG episodes.

Has anyone seen them at conventions/in interviews talk about what it was like working with him?

 

[Tosk]

Brent Spiner: (Taken from "The Fifty Year Mission" book two)

"But as a director in general—and I was more aware of it on the film because in the episodes David directed, I never had that much to do—I found him really, really bright, prepared, and whenever I would be at a loss of where to take something, he had a real clear vision on where it should go.

I found him enormously helpful, and I admired his sort of digging his heels in, because, as always, there are time and monetary constraints that the studio has to be concerned about. But David made his primary concern to make a good picture and just basically refused to be budged on that notion. He would just dig his heels in and say, “I don’t want to just make a movie, I would like to make a very good movie, if possible,” and he stuck to that all the way through the final day of shooting."

Incidentally, that "heel digging" apparently helped Carson to not be approached for the second film.

Rick Berman:

"There were a lot of problems with David directing Generations because he went from being a television director to being a movie director in personality and approach very quickly. He fell behind schedule very quickly. Oddly enough, I think some of this had to do with the cinematographer that he had selected, John Alonzo.

Alonzo pretty much took David under his wing and said, “Look, you’re the director, you can do whatever the hell you want to do.” And David took that to heart. If David had fourteen setups for a certain day and he would get seven of them done, his attitude was, “Too bad. I’m going at the pace that I want to go.” And the studio started going ape-shit. They got very upset at him. I remember there were people flying into Las Vegas where we were shooting out in the desert and insisting on him speeding things up because we were falling behind."

"There were a lot of problems with David Carson directing Generations, so when it came time for the second movie, I knew I needed to go elsewhere, and I had very strong feelings about Jonathan’s talents and about Jonathan’s work on both Next Generation and, at that point, Deep Space Nine."

 

[tim0122]

Brent Spiner: (Taken from "The Fifty Year Mission" book two)

"But as a director in general—and I was more aware of it on the film because in the episodes David directed, I never had that much to do—I found him really, really bright, prepared, and whenever I would be at a loss of where to take something, he had a real clear vision on where it should go.

I found him enormously helpful, and I admired his sort of digging his heels in, because, as always, there are time and monetary constraints that the studio has to be concerned about. But David made his primary concern to make a good picture and just basically refused to be budged on that notion. He would just dig his heels in and say, “I don’t want to just make a movie, I would like to make a very good movie, if possible,” and he stuck to that all the way through the final day of shooting."

Incidentally, that "heel digging" apparently helped Carson to not be approached for the second film.

Rick Berman:

"There were a lot of problems with David directing Generations because he went from being a television director to being a movie director in personality and approach very quickly. He fell behind schedule very quickly. Oddly enough, I think some of this had to do with the cinematographer that he had selected, John Alonzo.

Alonzo pretty much took David under his wing and said, “Look, you’re the director, you can do whatever the hell you want to do.” And David took that to heart. If David had fourteen setups for a certain day and he would get seven of them done, his attitude was, “Too bad. I’m going at the pace that I want to go.” And the studio started going ape-shit. They got very upset at him. I remember there were people flying into Las Vegas where we were shooting out in the desert and insisting on him speeding things up because we were falling behind."

"There were a lot of problems with David Carson directing Generations, so when it came time for the second movie, I knew I needed to go elsewhere, and I had very strong feelings about Jonathan’s talents and about Jonathan’s work on both Next Generation and, at that point, Deep Space Nine."

Thank you so much!

 

[Emperor-Tiberius]

Fantastic stuff, wish things like that were talked about on the documentaries.

 

[BillJ]

"There were a lot of problems with David Carson directing Generations, so when it came time for the second movie, I knew I needed to go elsewhere, and I had very strong feelings about Jonathan’s talents and about Jonathan’s work on both Next Generation and, at that point, Deep Space Nine."

Showed Berman's inability to let go, going from on TV director to another TV director. Film directors want more control over a project they will spend months of their life working on.

 

[Ssosmcin]

The direction and cinematography of Generations were not the films weaknesses. In fact, they were among the strengths, along with the performances and - controversial opinion - the score.

The studio and Berman (the ultimate company man) wanted it done quick and relatively cheaply. Carson, Alonzo and Dennis McCarthy were making a feature film. Moore and Braga were, sadly, stuck with a checklist to hit, because they had already proven they could make a solid feature length story (and would do so for the next film). However, the still did Kirk dirty in the end.

So an uneven script and a bunch of mandates made Generations less than it could have been.

Having said that, the slo-mo shots of crewmembers flying across the bridge due to a control panel explosion was over the top cheesy. Any explosion of that force would have thrown Worf as well, or at least taken his head off. And Carson needed to advise his background guy not to do the "yes" gesture behind Data seconds before Data did it.

 

[Allyn Gibson]

Showed Berman's inability to let go, going from on TV director to another TV director. Film directors want more control over a project they will spend months of their life working on.

Which is exactly why Nimoy passed on directing Generations--Berman gave him the script, Nimoy gave him notes, and Berman was like, "No, we don't have time for that and I want this shot at written." Berman was really ill-suited to the movie side of the franchise.

The direction and cinematography of Generations were not the films weaknesses. In fact, they were among the strengths, along with the performances and - controversial opinion - the score.

I agree with all of this. Even on the score. It sounds out of place compared to the other movie scores, especially following Eidelman, but it's a fine piece of work and works well with the film.

 

[tomalak301]

Fantastic stuff, wish things like that were talked about on the documentaries.

I've been wanting a Documentary just on that era. Having just one series to 2 series running concurrently and then you had a series end leading directly into a movie. It was the era where I grew up with trek in and I think the only behind the scenes stuff we've had was Michael Piller's book on Insurrection. With as much as they covered the original series and the beginnings of TNG, we are 30 years removed from the time when TNG went off the air, Generations came to Theaters, and DS9 season 2 had just ended, not to mention the start of Voyager and filming First Contact. I think that era is ripe for a Documentary now.

 

[Emperor-Tiberius]

Berman Trek would probably see a lot of light shone in if Berman allows it, it seems, or if he ever passes away. He seems quite protective of his image at least.

I agree with all of this. Even on the score. It sounds out of place compared to the other movie scores, especially following Eidelman, but it's a fine piece of work and works well with the film.

While I do find it the more forgettable score of all, certainly the most forgettable of the TNG films and the first ten for sure, its still a pretty good piece. There are a few tracks in that that are as good as anything composed of latter-day Goldsmith or Horner. If its slight its because of the comparison, otherwise its definitely one of the better aspects of that flick.

 

[Peach Wookiee]

Having said that, the slo-mo shots of crewmembers flying across the bridge due to a control panel explosion was over the top cheesy. Any explosion of that force would have thrown Worf as well, or at least taken his head off. And Carson needed to advise his background guy not to do the "yes" gesture behind Data seconds before Data did it.

Honestly, I found the crew member doing that gesture, but not vocalizing as adding to the comedy. He was restrained, but our sweet Data, still working with emotional regulation, couldn’t.

 

[tomalak301]

I agree with all of this. Even on the score. It sounds out of place compared to the other movie scores, especially following Eidelman, but it's a fine piece of work and works well with the film.

Does it sound as out of place as, say, Leonard Rosenman and Star Trek 4? The generations score was unique to the movie, and I really liked it, especially the main title track (Which is Jumping the Ravine)

 

[Allyn Gibson]

Does it sound as out of place as, say, Leonard Rosenman and Star Trek 4? The generations score was unique to the movie, and I really liked it, especially the main title track (Which is Jumping the Ravine)

You know what? Rosenman's score is so out of place that I always forget it. That is the most out-of-place Star Trek score. Are we taking the One Ring to Mordor? What was Nimoy thinking...?

Because TNG recycled Goldsmith's TMP overture for its theme, replacing McCarthy's original composition for the show, I generally think of the First Contact theme as the iconic TNG theme, but the main Generations overture also hits that spot for me.

 

[Qonundrum]

The TNG cast have talked a lot about Frakes's and Baird's direction, but I've never seem them talk about David Carson, who directed Generations and a handful of TNG episodes.

Has anyone seen them at conventions/in interviews talk about what it was like working with him?

Carson's TV style was cinematic with the horizontal pans, clever use of lens flare from behind the warp core, etc. He was a natural. Of the four flicks, GEN is the best-directed, if not second-best. Frakes' direction was excellent as well (STFC isn't my favorite of the flicks, but the direction was not a nitpick, that's for sure.)

 

[Qonundrum]

You know what? Rosenman's score is so out of place that I always forget it. That is the most out-of-place Star Trek score. Are we taking the One Ring to Mordor? What was Nimoy thinking...?

Because TNG recycled Goldsmith's TMP overture for its theme, replacing McCarthy's original composition for the show, I generally think of the First Contact theme as the iconic TNG theme, but the main Generations overture also hits that spot for me.

The partial recycling makes more sense; TOS had its own defined score and in 1979 comes this new music that has a big "Wait, wut?!" reaction. In TNG, it feels at home instantly and perfectly.

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It's fun to hear where that, from a strong starting point, how it descends into a surprisingly generic affair, also predating Orville, Galaxy Quest, and sequences that almost borderline parody (the sharp turn starts at 0:43). It just doesn't work as a main theme. His episodic scores, especially seasons 1-3, Next Phase, Generations theme overture (and numerous incidental moments within) et al, are sublime... but this as the main theme? Not as such, but it is cool that some of that theme was repurposed into episodes.

I've been wanting a Documentary just on that era. Having just one series to 2 series running concurrently and then you had a series end leading directly into a movie. It was the era where I grew up with trek in and I think the only behind the scenes stuff we've had was Michael Piller's book on Insurrection. With as much as they covered the original series and the beginnings of TNG, we are 30 years removed from the time when TNG went off the air, Generations came to Theaters, and DS9 season 2 had just ended, not to mention the start of Voyager and filming First Contact. I think that era is ripe for a Documentary now.

A few youtube videos seem to cover some of it all, but there's so much background muzak and stupid camera angle changes and jump cuts that you wish there could be an audio filter to remove the backing noise... and then not gawk at the screen to make listening to the content, that stuff as to why we're there in the first place, the actual priority. We want information, not a song and dance with camerawork better suited to fictional drama than real life documentaries where the focal point of the speakers should have any prominence.

 

[Allyn Gibson]

It's fun to hear where that, from a strong starting point, how it descends into a surprisingly generic affair, also predating Orville, Galaxy Quest, and sequences that almost borderline parody (the sharp turn starts at 0:43). It just doesn't work as a main theme.

McCarthy's discarded theme is definitely strange. I've never particularly disliked it, though it reminds me of Ron Jones' theme for the Starfleet Command video games. It also, as I listen to it again, makes me think of Leonard Rosenman's Star Trek IV fanfare, like McCarthy was trying to write something that was almost but not quite that fanfare.

Honestly, in 1987, I was really hoping for the James Horner theme when "Farpoint" came on.

 

[tim0122]

The partial recycling makes more sense; TOS had its own defined score and in 1979 comes this new music that has a big "Wait, wut?!" reaction. In TNG, it feels at home instantly and perfectly.

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It's fun to hear where that, from a strong starting point, how it descends into a surprisingly generic affair, also predating Orville, Galaxy Quest, and sequences that almost borderline parody (the sharp turn starts at 0:43). It just doesn't work as a main theme. His episodic scores, especially seasons 1-3, Next Phase, Generations theme overture (and numerous incidental moments within) et al, are sublime... but this as the main theme? Not as such, but it is cool that some of that theme was repurposed into episodes.




A few youtube videos seem to cover some of it all, but there's so much background muzak and stupid camera angle changes and jump cuts that you wish there could be an audio filter to remove the backing noise... and then not gawk at the screen to make listening to the content, that stuff as to why we're there in the first place, the actual priority. We want information, not a song and dance with camerawork better suited to fictional drama than real life documentaries where the focal point of the speakers should have any prominence.

Yeah, that alternate theme doesn't work nearly as well as the TMP theme. I'd never heard it before. It sounds like I'm about to watch a medieval, knights story. Much blander and forgettable.

 

[Peach Wookiee]

I thought it sounded like a generic superhero show…

 

[altersalk]

I'm always critical of Berman, but for the productions from '94-'95 I think we're talking about levels of responsibility here. TNG was on top of the world, and Paramount wanted both a TNG film in fall '94 to merge TNG with the film series AND launch a new network with a Star Trek anchor series in early '95. Generations was always going to be a rushed production given those parameters, and Berman's responsibility was not to make a great movie, but make a good movie that released on November 18, 1994, no matter what.

 

[AntonyF]

Showed Berman's inability to let go, going from on TV director to another TV director. Film directors want more control over a project they will spend months of their life working on.

That was my first reaction. Are you going from the frying pan to the fire?

But I guess Frakes was forged by TNG. He was kind of a company man like Berman.

 

[Ssosmcin]

Well, don't forget that they did go with a feature film director for Nemesis. Nobody here seems to have liked that movie....