Star Trek III: "The Enterprise is 20 years old! We feel her day is over" doesn't fit with 2245 at all.
Does Enterpise-A's short tenure make sense?
- Thread starter tim0122
- Start date
I've always wondered about that. Several headcanons have emerged but none have stuck. It could be another political statement, or just plain wrong. Morrow having an off day, etc
Typically, the Enterprise will be all but destroyed in S5 of SNW, save a damaged saucer. Then we get an answer after all these years
I think the point was to mark the passage of time since TMP. The Enterprise had been in her refit configuration for 20 years. If you squint real hard, and aren’t good at math, I think it works well enough.
The TAS episode The Counter-Clock Incident has been contradicted by other stories and makes no damn sense on any level, but it would actually solve this problem.
In The Counter-Clock Incident the Enterprise visited a universe where time went backwards at an accelerated rate, turning the crew into children. They were restored with the transporter, but the Enterprise was left as new as the day she was built.
In The Counter-Clock Incident the Enterprise visited a universe where time went backwards at an accelerated rate, turning the crew into children. They were restored with the transporter, but the Enterprise was left as new as the day she was built.
That's actually quite clever!
Although it requires the Enterprise to be older than the entire crew for it not to have disassembled itself...
Only older than the youngest crewmember.
Maybe the effect is slower on inorganic materials?
I've seen it suggested that the Refit was pretty much a new build and there was no way the Refit could be constructed over the TOS configuration. Decker implies this in TMP
"Admiral, this is an almost totally new Enterprise. You don't know her a tenth as well as I do."
"Admiral, this is an almost totally new Enterprise. You don't know her a tenth as well as I do."
I always took it that there was some original 1701 toilet, down on Deck 78.
SNW established that there is always a piece of a previous Enterprise somewhere on the ship.
I treat it as a separate timeline, so that isn't really applicable to TMP. From my perspective.
It should have been 40 years. It's been about 20 years since Kirk took command of the Enterprise (if you consider the 15 years between "Space Seed" and TWOK, plus however long it was when Kirk took over and "Space Seed"--still not perfect but closer in scope). I think the 20 years was used because it was almost 20 years since Star Trek came on the air originally.
One of the stories in the Mere Anarchy book series tries to explain this as Admiral Morrow being really bad at remembering time frames and he really didn't mean 20 years since the Enterprise was originally built. It's still not the best, but with such a huge on screen mistake it's probably the best that can be come up with. As an aside I do like what Christopher did with Admiral Morrow there overall. Morrow does not come off the best in TSFS. And in this story he is on a mission with Spock some years later and he expresses regret that he stook in Kirk's way, that if he knew then what he knew now he would have sent Kirk to Genesis with his blessings. Spock, in his usual way, explains that apologies are not necessary, Morrow's actions were logical given what he knew at the time.
Re: the Enterprise-A, I have to agree that it always bothered me a bit that the ship was apparently only in service about 7 years. Nothing that I've ever seen on screen or even in the novels has really adequately explained why the Enterprise was retired so soon after being launched. I'm not too keen myself on it being a refit, renamed Constitution class vessel. Though I suppose that would be a better explanation than Starfleet wasted a ton of resources building a ship that was only used for a few years and hadn't been destroyed. There really was nothing wrong with the ship at the start of TUC that would have justified retiring it so soon. Just because it was no longer the most advanced ship in the fleet doesn't seem good enough reason to mothball it. It was still an advanced heavy cruiser that probably had plenty of missions left in her.
One of the stories in the Mere Anarchy book series tries to explain this as Admiral Morrow being really bad at remembering time frames and he really didn't mean 20 years since the Enterprise was originally built. It's still not the best, but with such a huge on screen mistake it's probably the best that can be come up with. As an aside I do like what Christopher did with Admiral Morrow there overall. Morrow does not come off the best in TSFS. And in this story he is on a mission with Spock some years later and he expresses regret that he stook in Kirk's way, that if he knew then what he knew now he would have sent Kirk to Genesis with his blessings. Spock, in his usual way, explains that apologies are not necessary, Morrow's actions were logical given what he knew at the time.
Re: the Enterprise-A, I have to agree that it always bothered me a bit that the ship was apparently only in service about 7 years. Nothing that I've ever seen on screen or even in the novels has really adequately explained why the Enterprise was retired so soon after being launched. I'm not too keen myself on it being a refit, renamed Constitution class vessel. Though I suppose that would be a better explanation than Starfleet wasted a ton of resources building a ship that was only used for a few years and hadn't been destroyed. There really was nothing wrong with the ship at the start of TUC that would have justified retiring it so soon. Just because it was no longer the most advanced ship in the fleet doesn't seem good enough reason to mothball it. It was still an advanced heavy cruiser that probably had plenty of missions left in her.
I think it had more to do with the name than the condition of the ship. Starfleet wanted the name for the new Excelsior class.
There are some real world examples of ships being decommissioned after only a short service life.
Many ships in the US Navy were mothballed following the end of World War Ii after only 1-3 years in service, as they were deemed surplus to the Navy's requirements.
I don't have my book handy, but I know of a handful of destroyers and cruisers that were launched, commissioned, then immediately put into mothballs without so much as a shakedown cruise, as the war had ended before they could see combat.
Many ships in the US Navy were mothballed following the end of World War Ii after only 1-3 years in service, as they were deemed surplus to the Navy's requirements.
I don't have my book handy, but I know of a handful of destroyers and cruisers that were launched, commissioned, then immediately put into mothballs without so much as a shakedown cruise, as the war had ended before they could see combat.
I've read somewhere that line as originally written was, "The Enterprise is 40 years old". In keeping with The Making of Star Trek, where it was written that the Enterprise was approximately 40 years old when Kirk took command.
Leonard Nimoy had the line changed to twenty in keeping with how many years since TOS had first aired on NBC.
I've always disliked the idea that the Enterprise-A was a rechristened ship because there "wasn't time to build a new ship" between III and IV.
The fact is, the refit happened a good twelve years before the events of TWOK and TSFS. That's more than enough time for surviving Connies to be refit (if memory serves, not many survived the pre-movie era) and for entirely new vessels to be constructed. It makes perfect sense that a ship just finishing construction was rushed to become the new Enterprise, a conclusion supported on screen in Star Trek V.
As for the "black mark" that comes with renaming ships, the "Enterprise-G" might be the most cursed.
The fact is, the refit happened a good twelve years before the events of TWOK and TSFS. That's more than enough time for surviving Connies to be refit (if memory serves, not many survived the pre-movie era) and for entirely new vessels to be constructed. It makes perfect sense that a ship just finishing construction was rushed to become the new Enterprise, a conclusion supported on screen in Star Trek V.
As for the "black mark" that comes with renaming ships, the "Enterprise-G" might be the most cursed.
For what it is worth, here is James Dixon’s service career of the Enterprise
2218
16–Jul–2218
The Enterprise is laid down at UESPA in San Francisco Yards on Earth
2219
July
Robert April is chosen to be first Captain of the Enterprise
2220
March
Free-space assembly starts on the Enterprise
16–Jun–2220
A christening projectile is perfectly aligned and fired to intercept the Enterprise in exactly 2 weeks, 4 days, and 16 hours
4–Jul–2220
The USS Enterprise (NCC-1701) is launched from Earth
2221
5–Jan–2221
The USS Enterprise (NCC-1701) heavy cruiser is commissioned
2244
2–Oct–2244
Robert April announces he is stepping down as Captain of the Enterprise and names Christopher Pike as his successor
2245
April
The Enterprise is recommissioned with Captain Christopher Pike in command
2247
June
Enterprise begins its first Five–Year–Mission under the command of Captain Christopher Pike with Spock as his Science/Second Officer
2252
June
Enterprise's first Five–Year–Mission under Captain Pike ends. A second Five–Year–Mission under the same commander will begin next year
2258
April
Enterprise returns from its second Five–Year–Mission. Captain Pike is promoted to Fleet Captain. Commander James Kirk is promoted to Captain and given command of the Enterprise
2259
June
Where No Man Has Gone Before
2260
4–Jan–2260
In the Gamma 400 system, in orbit of Starbase 12, Enterprise is drydocked and converted over to a Bonhomme Richard–class heavy cruiser configuration
4–May–2260
Enterprise is relaunched, following Bonhomme Richard–class refitting
YEAR ONE
9–Jun–2260 to 8–Jun–2261
9–Jun–2260
The USS Enterprise is recommissioned after her uprating to the Bonhomme Richard–class specifications. The 3rd Five–Year–Mission of the Enterprise officially begins
YEAR TWO
9–Jun–2261 to 8–Jun–2262
YEAR THREE
9–Jun–2262 to 8–Jun–2263
YEAR FOUR
9–Jun–2263 to 8–Jun–2264
YEAR FIVE
9–Jun–2264 to 8–Jun–2265
16–Jun–2264
The USS Enterprise enters the Arias Mastac Prime Dockyards in orbit of Daran V and is uprated to the Achernar–class configuration
3–Oct–2264
The USS Enterprise is relaunched, now converted to the Achernar configuration
5–Nov–2264
The USS Enterprise is recommissioned as an Achernar–class heavy cruiser and continues her Five–Year–Mission under Captain James Kirk.
2265
March
The Five–Year–Mission of the USS Enterprise finally ends
2266
3–Jan–2266
The USS Enterprise enters Drydock Number One in orbit of Earth and uprating begins to form the new Enterprise (NCC-1701) class starship
2267
23–Aug–2267
THE MOTION PICTURE
2268
17–May–2268
The USS Enterprise (NCC-1701) heavy cruiser is recommissioned. The first of two Five–Year–Missions of the new USS Enterprise begins with Admiral James Kirk in command
2273
March
The first Five–Year–Missions of the upgraded USS Enterprise ends. A second Five–Year–Missions, also with Captain James Kirk in command, will soon begin this year
2278
April
The Enterprise returns from her final Five–Year–Mission. The Enterprise is drydocked for damage evaluation and refitting, following her last deep-space mission, and undergoes a refit which will last anywhere from six months to a year. Following the refit, the Enterprise is converted into a training vessel
2287
28–Jan–2287
THE WRATH OF KHAN
1–Feb–2287
THE SEARCH FOR SPOCK
Destruction of the Enterprise
25–Feb–2287
Funding is secured for an additional heavy cruiser of Levant specifications
28–Feb–2287
The Levant–class is rechristened Enterprise (II) class and the Enterprise–A is inserted into the production schedule at Starfleet Division's San Francisco facility.
1–Mar–2287
Construction begins on the Enterprise (II)–A (Ex–Levant NCC–1843) heavy cruiser at Starfleet Division, San Francisco Yards, Earth
APRIL
THE VOYAGE HOME
2288
17–May–2288
At his trial, Admiral Kirk is demoted to Captain rank and is given command of a new Enterprise (NCC–1701–A) which is launched from Spacedock
7–June–2288
THE FINAL FRONTIER
2289
30–Jan–2289
The uprated USS Enterprise (NCC–1701–A) heavy cruiser is commissioned
2291
15–Aug–2291
THE UNDISCOVERED COUNTRY
Enterprise–A decommissioned
2293
6–Jun–2293
GENERATIONS
Enterprise-B commissioned
Under this chronology, Enterprise is forty years old when Kirk assumes command, as per 'The Making of Star Trek'; and twenty years separates 'The Motion Picture' from 'The Search for Spock.' However, Enterprise-A is given a service life of only 2-3 years before being withdrawn from service and Enterprise-B taking its place.
With time, somewhere in my notes, I could probably dig up FASA's service life of Enterprise.
2218
16–Jul–2218
The Enterprise is laid down at UESPA in San Francisco Yards on Earth
2219
July
Robert April is chosen to be first Captain of the Enterprise
2220
March
Free-space assembly starts on the Enterprise
16–Jun–2220
A christening projectile is perfectly aligned and fired to intercept the Enterprise in exactly 2 weeks, 4 days, and 16 hours
4–Jul–2220
The USS Enterprise (NCC-1701) is launched from Earth
2221
5–Jan–2221
The USS Enterprise (NCC-1701) heavy cruiser is commissioned
2244
2–Oct–2244
Robert April announces he is stepping down as Captain of the Enterprise and names Christopher Pike as his successor
2245
April
The Enterprise is recommissioned with Captain Christopher Pike in command
2247
June
Enterprise begins its first Five–Year–Mission under the command of Captain Christopher Pike with Spock as his Science/Second Officer
2252
June
Enterprise's first Five–Year–Mission under Captain Pike ends. A second Five–Year–Mission under the same commander will begin next year
2258
April
Enterprise returns from its second Five–Year–Mission. Captain Pike is promoted to Fleet Captain. Commander James Kirk is promoted to Captain and given command of the Enterprise
2259
June
Where No Man Has Gone Before
2260
4–Jan–2260
In the Gamma 400 system, in orbit of Starbase 12, Enterprise is drydocked and converted over to a Bonhomme Richard–class heavy cruiser configuration
4–May–2260
Enterprise is relaunched, following Bonhomme Richard–class refitting
YEAR ONE
9–Jun–2260 to 8–Jun–2261
9–Jun–2260
The USS Enterprise is recommissioned after her uprating to the Bonhomme Richard–class specifications. The 3rd Five–Year–Mission of the Enterprise officially begins
YEAR TWO
9–Jun–2261 to 8–Jun–2262
YEAR THREE
9–Jun–2262 to 8–Jun–2263
YEAR FOUR
9–Jun–2263 to 8–Jun–2264
YEAR FIVE
9–Jun–2264 to 8–Jun–2265
16–Jun–2264
The USS Enterprise enters the Arias Mastac Prime Dockyards in orbit of Daran V and is uprated to the Achernar–class configuration
3–Oct–2264
The USS Enterprise is relaunched, now converted to the Achernar configuration
5–Nov–2264
The USS Enterprise is recommissioned as an Achernar–class heavy cruiser and continues her Five–Year–Mission under Captain James Kirk.
2265
March
The Five–Year–Mission of the USS Enterprise finally ends
2266
3–Jan–2266
The USS Enterprise enters Drydock Number One in orbit of Earth and uprating begins to form the new Enterprise (NCC-1701) class starship
2267
23–Aug–2267
THE MOTION PICTURE
2268
17–May–2268
The USS Enterprise (NCC-1701) heavy cruiser is recommissioned. The first of two Five–Year–Missions of the new USS Enterprise begins with Admiral James Kirk in command
2273
March
The first Five–Year–Missions of the upgraded USS Enterprise ends. A second Five–Year–Missions, also with Captain James Kirk in command, will soon begin this year
2278
April
The Enterprise returns from her final Five–Year–Mission. The Enterprise is drydocked for damage evaluation and refitting, following her last deep-space mission, and undergoes a refit which will last anywhere from six months to a year. Following the refit, the Enterprise is converted into a training vessel
2287
28–Jan–2287
THE WRATH OF KHAN
1–Feb–2287
THE SEARCH FOR SPOCK
Destruction of the Enterprise
25–Feb–2287
Funding is secured for an additional heavy cruiser of Levant specifications
28–Feb–2287
The Levant–class is rechristened Enterprise (II) class and the Enterprise–A is inserted into the production schedule at Starfleet Division's San Francisco facility.
1–Mar–2287
Construction begins on the Enterprise (II)–A (Ex–Levant NCC–1843) heavy cruiser at Starfleet Division, San Francisco Yards, Earth
APRIL
THE VOYAGE HOME
2288
17–May–2288
At his trial, Admiral Kirk is demoted to Captain rank and is given command of a new Enterprise (NCC–1701–A) which is launched from Spacedock
7–June–2288
THE FINAL FRONTIER
2289
30–Jan–2289
The uprated USS Enterprise (NCC–1701–A) heavy cruiser is commissioned
2291
15–Aug–2291
THE UNDISCOVERED COUNTRY
Enterprise–A decommissioned
2293
6–Jun–2293
GENERATIONS
Enterprise-B commissioned
Under this chronology, Enterprise is forty years old when Kirk assumes command, as per 'The Making of Star Trek'; and twenty years separates 'The Motion Picture' from 'The Search for Spock.' However, Enterprise-A is given a service life of only 2-3 years before being withdrawn from service and Enterprise-B taking its place.
With time, somewhere in my notes, I could probably dig up FASA's service life of Enterprise.
And yet this line conflicts with virtually every other piece of continuity we have about the age of the original 1701. If she was twenty years old in 2285, why would she have had such an extensive refit in 2270ish when she was practically still brand new at barely five years old? If Kirk commanded her for a five year mission ending in 2270 and she was launched in 2265, when did April's or Pike's captaincies take place?
The TNG Technical Manual and Star Trek Encyclopdia gave the 1701's launch date as 2245; the episode DIS: "Brother" finally confirmed this on-screen by outright stating it was April 11, 2245. This is also visible as the launch date on the SNW Enterprise dedication plaque, and is just about legible on-screen in the episode "Memento Mori".
Similar threads
