What are your controversial Star Trek opinions?

[Ray Hardgrit]

Yes, to get ratings is how TV shows stay on the air. That's how this business works. It's the first rule in the TOS bible is to entertain a certain number of viewers or they don't stay on the air.

This is a business process, not a charity, not a philosophical treatise. It is meant to get ratings and to bring in viewers.

And it succeeded.

Getting ratings and entertaining people are two different things and ratings stunts can backfire if people aren't impressed with what they're watching.

That said, I don't really get how Star Trek characters coming back to Star Trek bothers people so much. They're Star Trek characters, it's Star Trek, the show about Star Trek characters!

 

[fireproof78]

They're Star Trek characters, it's Star Trek, the show about Star Trek characters!

Not all Star Trek characters interest all people.

 

[Ray Hardgrit]

Not all Star Trek characters interest all people.

I think people generally like most of the characters they've seen, even Dr Pulaski apparently! As long as Wesley Crusher doesn't show up in any of the modern shows we should be fine.

 

[fireproof78]

I think people generally like most of the characters they've seen, even Dr Pulaski apparently! As long as Wesley Crusher doesn't show up in any of the modern shows we should be fine.

I love Wesley Crusher. He was one character I was glad to see, and as I said upthread I really enjoyed Worf too.

But, the weird argument of "Star Trek characters should appear in Star Trek" is very broad and strange. Like, I could be really odd and say that Dukat should get his own show then because he is a Star Trek character, or perhaps Kai Winn.

I say this because to illustrate that not all characters always resonate with everyone. So the random excuse of Star Trek characters must be just accepted because it's Star Trek is one that I find baffling. I don't watch Star Trek for every single character that pops up on screen, and there are some characters I genuinely wish would not reappear. Apply your Wesley Crusher logic to understand the emotion.

 

[Ray Hardgrit]

I was only joking about Wesley, as everyone likes him now.

Personally I only get annoyed by characters coming back when they're recast, killed off, or have become edgy gun-running mercenaries in the meantime, and I think it's strange that Trek hasn't taken much advantage of its shared universe.

 

[fireproof78]

I was only joking about Wesley, as everyone likes him now.

Personally I only get annoyed by characters coming back when they're recast, killed off, or have become edgy gun-running mercenaries in the meantime, and I think it's strange that Trek hasn't taken much advantage of its shared universe.

I liked Wesley before it was cool.

I think Trek did far more with the shared universe in the 90s, and 2000s, even having Cochrane back for Enterprise. I think it could do more, but it would risk being repetitive in my view.

I don't mind recasting (Saavik), killed off (Spock), or mercenaries since I like it when characters change.

 

[BillJ]

That said, I don't really get how Star Trek characters coming back to Star Trek bothers people so much. They're Star Trek characters, it's Star Trek, the show about Star Trek characters!

Like anything, one can go to the well too often.

 

[Nerys Myk]

I didn't see Worf and Raffi as that kind of couple - they were perfect "buddy cops" together IMO.

Now there's a Trek spinoff I'd like to see.

 

[Commander Troi]

As long as Wesley Crusher doesn't show up in any of the modern shows we should be fine.

Spoiler: Wesley

Well, actually... He showed up in Prodigy and it was pretty cool.

Now there's a Trek spinoff I'd like to see.

Right? A Starfleet Intelligence show with Worf and Raffi. He makes tea and she kicks ass!

 

[Tallguy]

I think people generally like most of the characters they've seen, even Dr Pulaski apparently! As long as Wesley Crusher doesn't show up in any of the modern shows we should be fine.

Does someone else want to tell him?

 

[Ray Hardgrit]

Does someone else want to tell him?

Spoiler: Spoiler

It's okay I've seen Prodigy season 2

 

[1001001]

Spoiler: Wesley

Well, actually... He showed up in Prodigy and it was pretty cool.

He was in Picard.

 

[Tallguy]

He was in Picard.

I'm sure that's what I was talking about. Otherwise I would have spoiler tagged it.

EDIT: I apparently missed a whole page!

 

[Daedalus]

I was only joking about Wesley, as everyone likes him now.

Personally I only get annoyed by characters coming back when they're recast, killed off, or have become edgy gun-running mercenaries in the meantime, and I think it's strange that Trek hasn't taken much advantage of its shared universe.

It's barely relevant, but I never had a problem with him. Only learnt he was largely despised after talking to other fans.

 

[Commander K]

Yes, to get ratings is how TV shows stay on the air. That's how this business works. It's the first rule in the TOS bible is to entertain a certain number of viewers or they don't stay on the air.

This is a business process, not a charity, not a philosophical treatise. It is meant to get ratings and to bring in viewers.

And it succeeded.

I totally get the ratings aspect of it, for trek and non-trek fans, but in an ideal world ending season 1 as it did (or with a few tweaks) may have been the right point. Season 3 just turned into a fans wet dream and lets be honest, just because it was the TNG crew they got away with a lot of things in the writing they couldnt have through some really stretched technobabble (almost JJ abrams level), and perhaps some of it just felt flat and masked with 'hey they can do what they want, its the TNG crew people will lap it up'..all be it good fun. Season 1 although some of the execution wasnt great (esp the borg/romulan b-plot) was actually a really beautiful wraparound story of friendship, redemption and sacrifice.

 

[fireproof78]

I totally get the ratings aspect of it, for trek and non-trek fans, but in an ideal world ending season 1 as it did (or with a few tweaks) may have been the right point. Season 3 just turned into a fans wet dream and lets be honest, just because it was the TNG crew they got away with a lot of things in the writing they couldnt have through some really stretched technobabble (almost JJ abrams level), and perhaps some of it just felt flat and masked with 'hey they can do what they want, its the TNG crew people will lap it up'..all be it good fun. Season 1 although some of the execution wasnt great (esp the borg/romulan b-plot) was actually a really beautiful wraparound story of friendship, redemption and sacrifice.

So, in an "ideal" world (I use quotes because I'm sure everyone's ideal will vary) what would you change?

For me, Season 1 was good, but definitely not where I would end it.

I also wouldn't do Season 3 because it utilizes some of the same storytelling aspects that are lacking from Season 2 and 1 and it definitely gets papered over far to generously in my view. But, Season 1 would need a lot more than just a few tweaks to be a place to end, in my opinion.

 

[Orphalesion]

I never understood the Wesley hate. He is not and will never be my favourite character, and I retain that Journey's End is one of the worst TNG episodes and ruined the character somewhat.
But until then I don't really see what's so bad about him. The show struggled quite a bit with how to use him effectively, but that's true for like half the cast of TNG.

 

[fireproof78]

I never understood the Wesley hate. He is not and will never be my favourite character, and I retain that Journey's End is one of the worst TNG episodes and ruined the character somewhat.
But until then I don't really see what's so bad about him. The show struggled quite a bit with how to use him effectively, but that's true for like half the cast of TNG.

The "wunderkid" stereotype was considered a bad thing, were a young person could step in and do things that adults couldn't (seemingly) understand. Night Court played with this a bit, as did Seaquest, though I thought Seaquest did it much better.

I don't have a problem with Wesley, but I'm also far more accepting of kid actors, and kid adventure stories than it seems most people appear to be.

 

[Gul Sengosts]

Wesley was obviously supposed to draw in young viewers, but when I first watched Trek, I must have been some 10-12 years old yet I didn't care about Wesley. I only cared about the adults and the aliens on the show and was annoyed whenever anything was about Wes. I don't know if this is representative for most young TNG viewers, but it's probably not a good sign if even the target demographic doesn't want to see him.

That said, I believe the Wesley hate is at least in part him being a lightning rod for TNG S1 hate. Because he played prominent parts in infamous episodes like The Naked Now and Justice, so that's possibly what many associate him most with.

 

[Richard S. Ta]

wunderkid

Wunderkind.

Don’t mix your German and English up, Mr Fireproof! *tsk!*