Help, please: Starfleet term for an officer that's promoted but hasn't quite taken their new post yet

[Just a Bill]

Perhaps this will help illustrate the constraints. The first four examples are existing content; the last is what I'm working on. Here I've pushed the format kind of to its limits, to try to cram in as much story as possible, as I fiddle with different ways to do this. (But writing out narrative in essentially sentence format is not exactly keeping to the format, nor is omitting the starship name & registry.)

Note: the graphics are rough because this is extracted from the actual cards. Normally much of the background is black, so the pixel roughness is not visible.

 

[fireproof78]

Perhaps this will help illustrate the constraints. The first four examples are existing content; the last is what I'm working on. Here I've pushed the format kind of to its limits, to try to cram in as much story as possible, as I fiddle with different ways to do this. (But writing out narrative in essentially sentence format is not exactly keeping to the format, nor is omitting the starship name & registry.)

Note: the graphics are rough because this is extracted from the actual cards. Normally much of the background is black, so the pixel roughness is not visible.

Ok, I think I follow correctly, and just want to clarify it a bit.

For the character in question, are they currently a lieutenant commander on the Enterprise, just not filling the role/billet as second officer? Or, is the promotion pending the transfer?

 

[Just a Bill]

are they currently a lieutenant commander on the Enterprise, just not filling the role/billet as second officer?

Correct. They received a field promotion to LCDR while on the Enterprise and are wearing those stripes now. The new job starts when they get delivered to the new ship.

And if fidelity to TOS is paramount, I have to ask where in the 79 episodes Second Officer comes from?

Well, even questions from the devil probably deserve an answer , so....

As far as I know, the phrase was spoken only once in TOS; however it's pretty clear to me that Kirk's second officer is Scotty, and Pike's was Spock. (Memory Alpha concurs with these.) As for that one utterance, back in the very early episodes when details about this fictional universe were still being worked out, Spock refers to himself as Second Officer in The Enemy Within (the third regular episode filmed, I think?). This was likely a holdover from how Spock was defined for The Cage, and of course his role would be restated as First Officer a half dozen episodes later (in Dagger of the Mind), but this does at least make the existence of the Second Officer role canon for TOS.

 

[fireproof78]

Correct. They received a field promotion to LCDR while on the Enterprise and are wearing those stripes now. The new job starts when they get delivered to the new ship.

Ok, so they definitely can be addressed as Lt. Commander, not necessarily needed to call out a field promotion but that's up to you. The rank is the rank; the rest is red tape.

The billet/role/job is still the question. Since they still operate as their current role (not second officer but?) that would be how it would be placed on a table of organization.

Maybe "Current [position tile]/select second officer USS [fill in the blank]

Well, even questions from the devil probably deserve an answer , so....

Precise quote: Captain's Log, stardate 1673.1. Entry made by Second Officer Spock. Captain Kirk retains command of this vessel, but his force of will rapidly fading. Condition of landing party critical. Transporter unit still under repair.
~Enemy Within (TOS)

 

[BK613]

@Just a Bill @fireproof78 Yeah, I never think of that entry, chalking it up to early show wonkiness (Like James R Kirk, UESPA, Vulcanians, and Napoleon being 900 years in their past.)

 

[Just a Bill]

Right. That log entry does not make Spock a canon Second Officer; but at the same time, erroneously calling him one does not erase the existence of Second Officers in Starfleet. Common sense tells us there's no reason to precede anything with the adjective "First" if there's no such thing as a "Second." And of course the parallels to our real-world Navy run deep.

Even if we never heard the terms Second Officer, Neptune, octopus, or dandelions, we would still know these things all exist in this fictional universe.

not necessarily needed to call out a field promotion but that's up to you.

I've debated that, and it's probably an unnecessary inclusion of a detail from the novels. I think I've over-analyzed this character because she has the potential to seem like a stretch to some fans, in having a higher rank than Lieutenant in the TOS era. I guess when I first wrote that card, I was trying to include the information that could answer the (presumed) question, hey, Just a Bill, if there was a black, female Lt. Commander walking around the ship for a year, why didn't we ever see her? Surely she would've been in some of those briefings? One clue to why her seniority did not bring her to those briefings is that she was field-promoted shortly before being transferred away.

But then later on I discovered that Ann Mulhall was in fact a LCDR, and then I remembered Number One was too, so probably I should just delete that detail. It would get rid of a line of text and bring that block into alignment with the other cards.

 

[Nerys Myk]

IIRC, we see a few lt. commanders and commanders roaming the halls of the Enterprise with no clue of where they are assigned.

 

[Just a Bill]

IIRC, we see a few lt. commanders and commanders roaming the halls of the Enterprise with no clue of where they are assigned.

True that. The most awkwardly obvious one for me is probably this guy in The Enterprise Incident. A full commander who outranks everyone on the ship except Spock and the captain -- yet he just stands there without any lines or reactions during a tense crisis in the briefing room.

Production-wise, it was probably a costuming oversight, or maybe just the consequence of being the only uniform that day in the needed size and color that wasn't in the laundry or something.

In my headcanon, he's not a member of this crew. If he were, then based on rank he should be chief engineer or chief of security, and should have been called on during the briefing. Or at the least, if they didn't want to pay the extra for speaking, Kirk could've said something like "Commander Smith, have your security teams ready for boarding if necessary" and the guy could've acknowledged the order with a determined, confident head nod.

Anyway, instead of all that I assume he's a dude from some other starship who's being ferried someplace by the Enterprise. A crisis meeting is called and he naturally attends to see if he can help. However, unlike all the visiting bureaucrats who always want to tell Kirk how to run his own ship, this guy is a seasoned Starfleet commander who will jump in to help in an instant, but respects the chain of command and has the experience to listen, think, and wait until he's called into action or has something to contribute that nobody has pointed out yet.

It's a shame, though... a non-white actor in a high-ranking position could've been more than just a background prop, using as little as a single line of dialog.

EDIT TO ADD:

Ha! I just went to watch this scene again and realized I'd always been so focused on the Commander that I never noticed there was also a Lt. Commander extra. That makes me wonder if this was actually intentional, like maybe the script directions were something like "this is a big deal; put some important-looking extras in the room"?

Now that I think about it a little more, given the gravity and secrecy of Kirk's mission to steal the cloak, maybe these guys are actually Starfleet brass, or Section 31 strategists, or emergency spin doctors or something that are just disguised as officers from some other ship catching a ride on the Enterprise. (Recall that in this scene, the crew is not privy to Kirk's mission yet.) The high ranks are there to ensure that if they need to step in and do something, the rest of the crew will have to comply since Agent Red will outrank everyone else while Kirk and Spock are away on the Romulan ship.

Heck, in the case where Kirk and Spock fail, maybe these guys have orders to destroy the Enterprise rather than let it be captured, should Second Officer Scott (see what I did there?) fail to follow Kirk's orders to that effect.

 

[Shamrock Holmes]

Honestly, given the note at the bottom, which should read "Awaiting Transfer to New Posting as Second Officer", then the obvious placeholder for the top-line would be "Bridge Officer" as someone is unlikely to be selected as Second Officer from another ship if they aren't fully qualified for the position.

Given that is an inter-ship transfer then it's unlikely to be a "field promotion", particularly for the Second Officer role (a Commanding Officer might be appointing on at least an "Acting" level as Riker was), but rather a regular or emergency transfer after an "in the zone" promotion in rank.

I also had another thought that it might be wise to decide what their current assignment is Second Officer (and First Officer during this era) is typically a collateral duty for a Department Head of a known type (Spock and Dax were Science Officers, Scotty was Chief Engineer, Data was Operations Officer, Tuvok was Security Chief et al).

 

[blssdwlf]

But then later on I discovered that Ann Mulhall was in fact a LCDR, and then I remembered Number One was too, so probably I should just delete that detail. It would get rid of a line of text and bring that block into alignment with the other cards.

I remember watching "The Cage" and it struck me that other than Captain Pike, no LCDR's or Commanders are ever called out. Even Number One is specifically called a Lieutenant (and not a LCDR.)

It is also possible that the guy in red in "The Enterprise Incident" could be a Lieutenant Commander instead of a Commander. In "Court Martial", Spock is a Lieutenant Commander and he has the same two solid braids that is also seen on Lieutenant Commander Finney. Lieutenant Commander Giotto in "The Devil in the Dark" also has two solid braids.

In later episodes we see Spock is officially called a Commander like in "Amok Time" and he keeps the same two solid braids. I looked but did not find any examples of another starfleet officer called a Commander in dialogue to see if they also kept the two solid braids.

Other LCDRs like Lieutenant Commander McCoy in "Court Martial" has the solid braid-dashed braid combo.

Maybe the blurred rank insignia is meant to keep the officers on their toes guessing if they are outranked or not?

True that. The most awkwardly obvious one for me is probably this guy in The Enterprise Incident. A full commander who outranks everyone on the ship except Spock and the captain -- yet he just stands there without any lines or reactions during a tense crisis in the briefing room.

Production-wise, it was probably a costuming oversight, or maybe just the consequence of being the only uniform that day in the needed size and color that wasn't in the laundry or something.

In my headcanon, he's not a member of this crew. If he were, then based on rank he should be chief engineer or chief of security, and should have been called on during the briefing. Or at the least, if they didn't want to pay the extra for speaking, Kirk could've said something like "Commander Smith, have your security teams ready for boarding if necessary" and the guy could've acknowledged the order with a determined, confident head nod.

Anyway, instead of all that I assume he's a dude from some other starship who's being ferried someplace by the Enterprise. A crisis meeting is called and he naturally attends to see if he can help. However, unlike all the visiting bureaucrats who always want to tell Kirk how to run his own ship, this guy is a seasoned Starfleet commander who will jump in to help in an instant, but respects the chain of command and has the experience to listen, think, and wait until he's called into action or has something to contribute that nobody has pointed out yet.

It's a shame, though... a non-white actor in a high-ranking position could've been more than just a background prop, using as little as a single line of dialog.

EDIT TO ADD:

Ha! I just went to watch this scene again and realized I'd always been so focused on the Commander that I never noticed there was also a Lt. Commander extra. That makes me wonder if this was actually intentional, like maybe the script directions were something like "this is a big deal; put some important-looking extras in the room"?

Now that I think about it a little more, given the gravity and secrecy of Kirk's mission to steal the cloak, maybe these guys are actually Starfleet brass, or Section 31 strategists, or emergency spin doctors or something that are just disguised as officers from some other ship catching a ride on the Enterprise. (Recall that in this scene, the crew is not privy to Kirk's mission yet.) The high ranks are there to ensure that if they need to step in and do something, the rest of the crew will have to comply since Agent Red will outrank everyone else while Kirk and Spock are away on the Romulan ship.

Heck, in the case where Kirk and Spock fail, maybe these guys have orders to destroy the Enterprise rather than let it be captured, should Second Officer Scott (see what I did there?) fail to follow Kirk's orders to that effect.

 

[BK613]

Yeah, my favorite random Lt Commander is the one at the Nav position in The Alternative Factor, who is there, on duty—along side one of the Leslie clones—the whole episode. All the winking out, all the planetary searches, all the patching ups of Lazarus, all the dilithium shenanigans and he's on the bridge when ever we're there. Dude is dedicated!

 

[Phaser Two]

No, select is used only in the context of rank, i.e, an officer that has been selected for promotion but not yet promoted (because the US Navy phases in officer promotions over the course of a fiscal year based on seniority).
There is no official term that is similar for referring to someone that is moving on to another Navy job because, again, you are supposed to be focused on the job you have now.
(And of course, the Navy's promises about what you may be getting are only as good as when you have the actual orders to that promised job in your hands. )

Select is actually never used in terms of rating or rank. The Style Guide, among other things, specifically forbids it. On the other hand, people informally use it regarding jobs all the time. But the best (if least satisfying) answer is actually to say, Chief so and so who will be moving on to XYZ position next month.

 

[BK613]

Select is actually never used in terms of rating or rank. The Style Guide, among other things, specifically forbids it. On the other hand, people informally use it regarding jobs all the time. But the best (if least satisfying) answer is actually to say, Chief so and so who will be moving on to XYZ position next month.

Tell it to the Navy:

Status Select

It's probably never written—but I never said it was—but it is used for rank and not for position as you indicated when you said "it would be in the context of the new (forthcoming) assignment, not the current one."

 

[BK613]

Common sense tells us there's no reason to precede anything with the adjective "First" if there's no such thing as a "Second." And of course the parallels to our real-world Navy run deep.

Dunno. It's Captain and First Officer in the cockpit of an airline with no Second Officer—a third person in the cockpit is usually a Flight Engineer.
And in the US Navy, there is a billeted position on US Navy ships called "First Lieutenant" but no Second Lieutenant position. The Royal Navy seems to use the term for the second in command.
Star Trek seems to use the term First Officer in lieu of XO (Executive Officer).

 

[Shamrock Holmes]

Dunno. It's Captain and First Officer in the cockpit of an airline with no Second Officer—a third person in the cockpit is usually a Flight Engineer.

Flight Engineers and Navigators were considered Second Officers back in the day, particularly where they were qualified (junior) pilots.

The term is still used occassionally for in-training, junior or restricted pilots.

And in the US Navy, there is a billeted position on US Navy ships called "First Lieutenant" but no Second Lieutenant position.

No, they're usually titled Chief Engineer, Tactical Action Officer, Navigator or similar instead.

The analogus terms Chief Mate/Officer, First Mate/Officer are often used in merchant services, which also retain Second Mate (second or third-in-command depending on whether both Chief and First are employed), and Third Mate (one or more officers starting from third/fourth-in-command)

The Royal Navy seems to use the term for the second in command.

Yup.

In the early Royal Navy, a ship's lieutenants were numbered by seniority, which also designated their place in the "chain of command" after the ship's CO. As noted above, this is largely preserved in merchant services and to an extent in aviation.

Star Trek seems to use the term First Officer in lieu of XO (Executive Officer).

Yup.

Which is interesting given it's otherwise US-centric nature of Starfleet.

 

[BK613]

@Shamrock Holmes All of that misses my point that there are examples where first exists without a second (which maybe I wasn't clear enough about.)

No, they're usually titled Chief Engineer, Tactical Action Officer, Navigator or similar instead.

Administratively, USN ship commands are organized by departments and the First Lieutenant is a usually a member of the Deck Department. The officer might not be the senior Deck officer, might not be a lieutenant, heck might not even be an officer. Any historical existence of other ordinal lieutenants or their seniority is long past. It's just the First Lieutenant now.
Operationally, USN ships are organized around watchstanding—but that is really beyond the scope of this thread, except for this: after the CO and XO, the role responsible for the ship isn't a billet/position, it's a watch. One in which many of the senior officers on a ship will be qualified for and will stand. Usually the watch is the OOD but sometimes on larger ships, the CDO.

Which, in my headcanon anyway, is why sometimes it's Spock, sometimes it's Scotty, sometimes it's Sulu, sometimes it's DePaul, etc. They have the watch.

 

[publiusr]

Something-junior grade?

 

[Shamrock Holmes]

Administratively, USN ship commands are organized by departments and the First Lieutenant is a usually a member of the Deck Department.

Correct.

The officer might not be the senior Deck officer, might not be a lieutenant, heck might not even be an officer.

My understanding is that they're usually the senior deck officer other than the XO and that the alternative title/billet of Bosun is more typical for warrant officers, Bosun and/or Coxswain for chiefs and or Executive Petty Officer is occasionally used on small vessel commanded by Ensigns or Lieutenants for the equivalent position when not merged with either Administration or Operations.

Any historical existence of other ordinal lieutenants or their seniority is long past. It's just the First Lieutenant now.

It's still just as relevant to the meaning as ever, IMO.

Operationally, USN ships are organized around watchstanding—but that is really beyond the scope of this thread, except for this: after the CO and XO, the role responsible for the ship isn't a billet/position, it's a watch.

Technically true, though at least two of the roles I mentioned are "command" watchstanders by definition, so would be relatively high in the chain-of-command (the ChEng is less definitionally included, but often is)

One in which many of the senior officers on a ship will be qualified for and will stand.

Yup. The only senior officers who wouldn't be inherently would be the medical and staff corps officers and any Marine aviators on board.

Usually the watch is the OOD but sometimes on larger ships, the CDO.

And the later is a (senior) subset of the former as at least at sea (unclear re: in dock) then the latter will also be qualified as the former.

 

[BK613]

Correct.

I know. I lived it.

My understanding is that they're usually the senior deck officer other than the XO

Your understanding is flawed, at as least it involves the USN.

It's still just as relevant to the meaning as ever, IMO.

Not to anyone serving now—or forty years ago for that matter. The thing the 1st Lt is known for now is being in charge of the cordage and training up the fresh boots.

Technically true, though at least two of the roles I mentioned are "command" watchstanders by definition, so would be relatively high in the chain-of-command (the ChEng is less definitionally included, but often is)

Maybe the TAO, but Navigator is usually a billeted position, sometimes the department head of the navigation department. But the administrative chain of command is for training, maintenance, etc, not for the operation of the ship. That would be the watchstanding chain of command.

And to give a very specific, real world example of that chain of command:
CO > XO > CDO/OOW > Engineering Officer of the Watch (EOW) > Electrical Switchboard Operator*

As opposed to the admin chain of command:
CO > XO > Engineering Department Head (The Eng Officer) > Electrical Officer > E-Division SCPO/CPO/LPO > Electrical Shop LPO*


*Bold would be me

 

[Just a Bill]

1. Fascinating.
2. Nevertheless the source material dictates Second Officer, so that's what I've got.

Thanks everyone. I've revised a bit based on feedback, and will go with this for the test phase.