Funny, odd, amazing things in the ST Comics

[somebuddyX]

Star Trek Unlimited #7 had the story where Picard and Kirk swapped places but also they swapped villains or something, so the TOS Enterprise has to fight some 24th century Klingon ship and the Enterprise-E has to fight a D7. But all I remember (hopefully correctly) is the scene where the D7 is supposedly just flying around firing at the E-E, meanwhile the E-E crew and Kirk stop mid battle and go for a chat in the observation lounge and let the D7 just keep shooting at them.

 

[Desert Kris]

I've been reading through the DC TOS Volume 1 series that was being published through the 1980s and the TOS movie era gradually over the last couple years, and now closing on the last couple of stories. I've enjoyed most of the overall story progression, especially stretching the status quo between movies. It's wild to imagine all the events this comic series depicts happening between TSFS and TVH. Yet, the writing has been what I would expect from comics of that time.

However, something has changes now that I've hit issue #48, "The Stars in Secret Influence". This is where Peter David arrives. Where before I would tend to read the comic issues slowly, there's something about the flow of David's first issue that is smooth and effortless, kind of makes the dialogue and writing of the previous issues seem stilted and choppy, and not as nuance by comparison. There's a pre-title sequence that grabbed me with the drama and tragedy of it, and most of the rest of the book could have been disappointing and off putting with it's somewhat "frat boy" quality. Of all the things Peter David could have done, he starts off with a bachelor party on the Enterprise.

It could have been groan worthy (well, it is, actually), but it's still elevated by what David is doing with the characters. There's some surprising moments where unexpected characters are revealed for having a little bit of bigotry in them (a real shock to see Arex as one of with dodgy perspective revealing itself in his dialogue).

I find myself wondering if Peter David's writing includes details about the layout of panels, there's some really stylish stuff like angles, character positioning, and transitions (a really interesting visual of a transition between a close-up on the eye of two Klingon characters, taking the reader from the aftermath of a devastating attack to another character safely walking the Enterprise corridors.

I'm not sure if I'm overthinking things, because I knew about and was looking forward to Peter David's start on the series. I've always like Peter David, except for his tendency to go for stuff like bachelor parties. But the difference between the previous issues and David's start is so electric and dynamic, like the series has suddenly come alive in a new way. Anyone else who read it back in the day sense a shift in tone and energy when the series gets to it's final stories under David's writing?

 

[Christopher]

Anyone else who read it back in the day sense a shift in tone and energy when the series gets to it's final stories under David's writing?

I think it was widely recognized as a significant improvement, yes. I know I wasn't particularly fond of either Len Wein's or Mike Carlin's run on the series. Wein's plotting was okay, but he tended toward extremely stilted and unnatural dialogue of the kind that was somehow acceptable in comics in those days even though it would never fly anywhere else. And Carlin's stuff tended to be silly (space gremlins???).

 

[David cgc]

I find myself wondering if Peter David's writing includes details about the layout of panels, there's some really stylish stuff like angles, character positioning, and transitions (a really interesting visual of a transition between a close-up on the eye of two Klingon characters, taking the reader from the aftermath of a devastating attack to another character safely walking the Enterprise corridors.

You might be interested in his book Writing For Comics With Peter David. I have no plans to write a comic myself, but it was a great insight into the process and his style. Oh, and there was a second edition, never heard about that.

 

[Desert Kris]

I think it was widely recognized as a significant improvement, yes. I know I wasn't particularly fond of either Len Wein's or Mike Carlin's run on the series. Wein's plotting was okay, but he tended toward extremely stilted and unnatural dialogue of the kind that was somehow acceptable in comics in those days even though it would never fly anywhere else. And Carlin's stuff tended to be silly (space gremlins???).

The most I feel I can say about Len Wein is that I was very disappointed at how he ended the tenure of the crew's assignment as staff on the Excelsior, and it's more down to what happens to the Surak and it's crew. I enjoyed the status quo that was in place between TSFS and TVH with the Excelsior and the Surak having adventures in parallel to each other, and I found it short-sighted, of limited vision, and a glum prospect that a writer or writers chose to narrow the scope of the overall story progression the way it was done.

I'm a bit silly, though, I confess I was intrigued by the mystery of the space gremlin and the story hovering in a zone between superstition and modern/future technology and explanations...that Scotty has his own explanation (even though he's very technologically inclined), and yet I felt like there could be more beyond the superstitious explanation. I liked the sequel to The Apple, but mainly because I had and only got to read the first part of it, and only this year finally reached it and saw the end of a story that I didn't know how it resolved for several decades. It may only be average, but it was nice to see how that one issue fit into the surrounding context (include several previous comic's lead in to it). I didn't feel like it needed to be connected to "Return to Tomorrow" but I was intrigued by the Genesis Planet parallel.

You might be interested in his book Writing For Comics With Peter David. I have no plans to write a comic myself, but it was a great insight into the process and his style. Oh, and there was a second edition, never heard about that.

Thanks for letting me know about that, it sounds great!

 

[somebuddyX]

What about that fully Klingon language issue of "Starfleet Academy." That's the only version I bought and I still have no idea what the fuck happened in it.

 

[Allyn Gibson]

The most I feel I can say about Len Wein is that I was very disappointed at how he ended the tenure of the crew's assignment as staff on the Excelsior, and it's more down to what happens to the Surak and its crew. I enjoyed the status quo that was in place between TSFS and TVH with the Excelsior and the Surak having adventures in parallel to each other, and I found it short-sighted, of limited vision, and a glum prospect that a writer or writers chose to narrow the scope of the overall story progression the way it was done.

"The Doomsday Bug" is definitely a "checklist" story, with a list of things it needs to do to align with Star Trek IV, and, yes, some of it (basically, everything around the Surak), is really unnecessary. I can think in retrospect of other things that could have been done... but comics are also created under extreme time contraints, and I would imagine that "the solution" to "the Surak problem" in issue #34 seemed like the best idea at the time in the time they had.

 

[Christopher]

"The Doomsday Bug" is definitely a "checklist" story, with a list of things it needs to do to align with Star Trek IV, and, yes, some of it (basically, everything around the Surak), is really unnecessary. I can think in retrospect of other things that could have been done... but comics are also created under extreme time contraints, and I would imagine that "the solution" to "the Surak problem" in issue #34 seemed like the best idea at the time in the time they had.

Honestly, I thought the Surak fill-in stories were pretty weak, so I didn't mind losing those characters. I was more bothered by the plot beat about the Klingon Bird-of-Prey being in the Excelsior's shuttlebay the whole time, when the "Mirror Universe Saga" issues earlier in the run had clearly, and correctly, shown that it was far too large to fit inside the Excelsior.

 

[Desert Kris]

"The Doomsday Bug" is definitely a "checklist" story, with a list of things it needs to do to align with Star Trek IV, and, yes, some of it (basically, everything around the Surak), is really unnecessary. I can think in retrospect of other things that could have been done... but comics are also created under extreme time contraints, and I would imagine that "the solution" to "the Surak problem" in issue #34 seemed like the best idea at the time in the time they had.

I guess that makes sense, given the possibility of time constraints. It's too bad, though, I think there were lots of interesting possibilities they could have gone with, if they'd kept the Surak and crew around. Seeing what Peter David is doing with the current set up makes me think he would have had some worthwhile ideas.

It's always nice to see when a writer can take a checklist, and transcend the restrictions. It's too bad that the "Doomsday Bug" didn't manage it. Although I did like how those issues were in tune with Diane Duane's development of the Rihannsu/Romulan culture. My novel reading schedule synchronized well with the comics just then, happily; so at least I got something out of those issues of the comic series.

Honestly, I thought the Surak fill-in stories were pretty weak, so I didn't mind losing those characters. I was more bothered by the plot beat about the Klingon Bird-of-Prey being in the Excelsior's shuttlebay the whole time, when the "Mirror Universe Saga" issues earlier in the run had clearly, and correctly, shown that it was far too large to fit inside the Excelsior.

I kind of get what you mean, although for me it's just that the stories were merely average (and forgettable, and I'm game to re-visit them down the road). I think I found found the overall narrative structure of going back and forth between the Excelsior and the Surak fun (kind of like how Farscape goes back and forth between Moya and Talon during it's third season, maybe that's why I liked it). I thought there were directions the writers could take the characters, Brinks had possibilities as a character who could grow, and we could have learned more about. There was a bird character who could have been worth exploring more about his culture. And I thought it was great that one of the characters took a bicycle down on a landing party, so he could travel a greater distance, I just felt it was a nice, quirky touch that I liked. And we may not have learned all that much about the Surak's crew, but a writer like Peter David (and others of his caliber) could easily have brought those characters to life and given them a new level of clarity.

 

[Allyn Gibson]

I guess that makes sense, given the possibility of time constraints. It's too bad, though, I think there were lots of interesting possibilities they could have gone with, if they'd kept the Surak and crew around. Seeing what Peter David is doing with the current set up makes me think he would have had some worthwhile ideas.

It's always nice to see when a writer can take a checklist, and transcend the restrictions. It's too bad that the "Doomsday Bug" didn't manage it. Although I did like how those issues were in tune with Diane Duane's development of the Rihannsu/Romulan culture. My novel reading schedule synchronized well with the comics just then, happily; so at least I got something out of those issues of the comic series.

I kind of get what you mean, although for me it's just that the stories were merely average (and forgettable, and I'm game to re-visit them down the road). I think I found found the overall narrative structure of going back and forth between the Excelsior and the Surak fun (kind of like how Farscape goes back and forth between Moya and Talon during it's third season, maybe that's why I liked it). I thought there were directions the writers could take the characters, Brinks had possibilities as a character who could grow, and we could have learned more about. There was a bird character who could have been worth exploring more about his culture. And I thought it was great that one of the characters took a bicycle down on a landing party, so he could travel a greater distance, I just felt it was a nice, quirky touch that I liked. And we may not have learned all that much about the Surak's crew, but a writer like Peter David (and others of his caliber) could easily have brought those characters to life and given them a new level of clarity.

I realize I'm writing this with forty years of retrospection, but...

I would have kept the Surak, though I doubt it would have had any more focus post-Star Trek IV than it did before the film. Two one-offs in two years seems about right to me. But I could also imagine Peter David writing a multi-part story where the two ships (Enterprise and Surak) have to work together on a single mission.

Spock has to serve on the Enterprise, imho. It's what the audience would expect after Star Trek IV. I would have that happen because Spock needed more medical monitoring for Reasons (arising from whatever sends the Big Seven back to Vulcan with the Bird-of-Prey), and who knows Spock better than Leonard McCoy?

But... I would transfer at least Saavik and maybe one or two of the Mike W. Barr characters to the Surak. Maybe that's the way to go--Nancy Bryce and Konom transfer to the Surak before Star Trek IV in the story that replaces "The Doomsday Bug," and after the film Saavik is assigned to be Captain Brinks' first officer. This would afford a kind of Lower Decks approach to the Surak, as the characters the audience would be invested in are not sitting in the center seat.

This isn't perfect, but it's a fair start, I think.

 

[JonnyQuest037]

Adapting "The Gift" would have made a far better Picard season 2

So would a test pattern.

 

[JonnyQuest037]

I find myself wondering if Peter David's writing includes details about the layout of panels, there's some really stylish stuff like angles, character positioning, and transitions (a really interesting visual of a transition between a close-up on the eye of two Klingon characters, taking the reader from the aftermath of a devastating attack to another character safely walking the Enterprise corridors.

It varies from writer to writer, but generally speaking, a written comics plot that includes panel breakdowns will at the very least indicate whether something is a closeup, medium shot, establishing shot, or whatever. So yes, Peter David likely would've written in his script that a closeup on a character's eye was needed in a particular panel, but penciler Tom Sutton would've decided how to specifically stage it and what shape the panel was.

But like I said, it varies. Some writers like doing full scripts. Some prefer "Marvel Style," where the artist works from a plot and the writer scripts the story after it's drawn. Some writers like to write full script and then rewrite their script after they see the finished pages. And of course artists have their own preferences as to how they like to work, too.

Alan Moore is famous for his intensely detailed scripts, where he can spend multiple paragraphs describing a single panel (although he'd usually also say something like "If you think of something better, feel free.") Stan Lee and Jack Kirby or Chris Claremont and John Byrne would work "Marvel Style," where sometimes Kirby or Byrne would plot/co-plot, pace out & draw their pages based on just a single conversation with the scripter. And sometimes the process can change on different projects. As Mark Evanier has said, there are as many different ways to do comics as there are people working in comics.

But the difference between the previous issues and David's start is so electric and dynamic, like the series has suddenly come alive in a new way. Anyone else who read it back in the day sense a shift in tone and energy when the series gets to it's final stories under David's writing?

I was reading it during the time or shortly after, and I'd say it was more like the DC Trek got its mojo back after Mike W. Barr's departure and a few years of rotating writers of varying quality. (I'm as big a fan of Barr's run on the title as David's, if not moreso, because Barr has less of a tendency to get cutesy than PAD.) So I'd say that DC's first series started strong with Barr & ended strong with David.

 

[Desert Kris]

@JonnyQuest037 Thank you for the overview of the different writing styles on comics, that's great stuff. And also for your perspective on the rise and fall and rise of the quality of writing for the overall series. I did like Mike W. Barr's work (and he came up with some good stuff on the original Marvel Star Wars comics back in the 80s that I liked), although I go the other way. Possibly my tastes are a little bit quirky, I wasn't generally phased by fluctuations in quality, I enjoyed the status quo of the Excelsior and Surak fine. That sequence of adventures started off with the endlessly re-printed Mirror Universe Saga, which was a strong start, and Diane Duane contributed a couple of stories over three issues of excellent quality. I appreciate your perspective on the overall sense of the series.

I realize I'm writing this with forty years of retrospection, but...

I would have kept the Surak, though I doubt it would have had any more focus post-Star Trek IV than it did before the film. Two one-offs in two years seems about right to me. But I could also imagine Peter David writing a multi-part story where the two ships (Enterprise and Surak) have to work together on a single mission.

Spock has to serve on the Enterprise, imho. It's what the audience would expect after Star Trek IV. I would have that happen because Spock needed more medical monitoring for Reasons (arising from whatever sends the Big Seven back to Vulcan with the Bird-of-Prey), and who knows Spock better than Leonard McCoy?

But... I would transfer at least Saavik and maybe one or two of the Mike W. Barr characters to the Surak. Maybe that's the way to go--Nancy Bryce and Konom transfer to the Surak before Star Trek IV in the story that replaces "The Doomsday Bug," and after the film Saavik is assigned to be Captain Brinks' first officer. This would afford a kind of Lower Decks approach to the Surak, as the characters the audience would be invested in are not sitting in the center seat.

This isn't perfect, but it's a fair start, I think.

This was such a fun post to read! I love this as a blueprint/outline for how to run it, post-TVH. And it fits with some of my own thoughts, I like the idea of seeing if Brinks is up to the challenge of taking the center seat of the Surak, for one thing.

Also agree about transferring some of the Mike Barr's characters over to the Surak, although given the way Bearclaw is spiraling in Peter David's run of stories, because that's fresh on my mind I could see the scenario where Kirk (and everyone else) get tired of Bearclaw sooner and send him off.

I wasn't sure about your idea of Saavik at first, but that would be interesting to see how things are different between her and Brinks, compared to Spock and Brinks, so after sitting with it, that's actually an exciting idea, to compare where there are similarities and differences.

Your hypothetical schedule of limiting the Surak's adventures to two issues per year makes sense from a pragmatic standpoint, best to keep the focus on the Enterprise crew, on the Enterprise. Yet I think this is where I would differ and want to keep Nancy and Konom aboard the newer Enterprise, so they can continue to be more regular characters. Having Bearclaw on the Surak would mean less of Bearclaw, and maybe be an incentive to accelerate character growth for Bearclaw with the smaller story space available.

I had such fun reading your ideas for an alternative post-TVH status quo for DC Volume 1, thank you for sharing them!

 

[Christopher]

I did like Mike W. Barr's work (and he came up with some good stuff on the original Marvel Star Wars comics back in the 80s that I liked)

Huh? According to Wookieepedia, Mike only wrote one fill-in issue of that series (#49, which was prophetically titled "The Last Jedi"), plus a few issues of Rogue Squadron and some kids' comics in 1997 or so and a one-shot story in 2014. IIRC, the main writers on Marvel's original SW comic were Roy Thomas, then Archie Goodwin, then David Michelinie, then Jo Duffy -- each of whose work I liked better than their predecessors'.

, although I go the other way. Possibly my tastes are a little bit quirky, I wasn't generally phased by fluctuations in quality, I enjoyed the status quo of the Excelsior and Surak fine. That sequence of adventures started off with the endlessly re-printed Mirror Universe Saga, which was a strong start, and Diane Duane contributed a couple of stories over three issues of excellent quality. I appreciate your perspective on the overall sense of the series.

I agree with JonnyQuest037's assessment. Mike's initial run on the series was my favorite. After he left, the series was without a regular writer for a surprisingly long time and was commensurately uneven in quality, with the Diane Duane issues being the best followed (IMO) by Tony Isabella's issues. Isabella was going to become the new regular writer, but he had to drop out after one issue and was replaced by Len Wein, whose stuff was okay but had the stilted-dialogue problem I mentioned. Then came Mike Carlin's weak run, and then Peter took over and revitalized the series.

 

[Rowdy Roddy McDowall]

Stan Lee and Jack Kirby or Chris Claremont and John Byrne would work "Marvel Style," where sometimes Kirby or Byrne would plot/co-plot, pace out & draw their pages based on just a single conversation with the scripter.

Including Stan Lee's SPIDER-MAN comic strip (partially ghostwritten) and most of what he wrote before, he never seemed to realize solitary characters could also use thought balloons....even when mentioning their secret identies.

 

[KRAD]

When I've written comics scripts, how much detail I provide for the artist varies wildly from page to page, as there are times when I have something very specific in mind for the page, and some times when I don't really give a damn and I'll tell the artist, "lay out this page however you want, just make sure there's room for these pieces of dialogue." Or some such.

 

[Desert Kris]

Huh? According to Wookieepedia, Mike only wrote one fill-in issue of that series (#49, which was prophetically titled "The Last Jedi"), plus a few issues of Rogue Squadron and some kids' comics in 1997 or so and a one-shot story in 2014. IIRC, the main writers on Marvel's original SW comic were Roy Thomas, then Archie Goodwin, then David Michelinie, then Jo Duffy -- each of whose work I liked better than their predecessors'.

Whoops! I think I was confusing David Michelinie with Mike Barr for some reason, no idea why. That's a weird mistake, please disregard.

I agree with JonnyQuest037's assessment. Mike's initial run on the series was my favorite. After he left, the series was without a regular writer for a surprisingly long time and was commensurately uneven in quality, with the Diane Duane issues being the best followed (IMO) by Tony Isabella's issues. Isabella was going to become the new regular writer, but he had to drop out after one issue and was replaced by Len Wein, whose stuff was okay but had the stilted-dialogue problem I mentioned. Then came Mike Carlin's weak run, and then Peter took over and revitalized the series.

I think I remember reading about the plan for Tony Isabella being slated as the regular writer in the mail column at the back of the issues. The fan mail was interesting to read, and compare with conversations that go on on fan forums on the internet. I didn't remember Isabella's work, I had to look it up. I seem to recall the return of the Jack-the-Ripper entity was a hackles-raising two-parter. And the title of The Trouble With Bearclaw got my attention as I approached it, because I was always curious to see if the writers could do something interesting with Bearclaw and get me to see him in a new light (I can't remember if that happened, my overall impression of Bearclaw is that he was consistently exasperating).

 

[JonnyQuest037]

@JonnyQuest037 Thank you for the overview of the different writing styles on comics, that's great stuff. And also for your perspective on the rise and fall and rise of the quality of writing for the overall series. I did like Mike W. Barr's work (and he came up with some good stuff on the original Marvel Star Wars comics back in the 80s that I liked), although I go the other way.

Thanks! I went to the Kubert School back in the '90s and I write for BACK ISSUE magazine from TwoMorrows Publishing today, so I've learned quite a bit about comic book production along the way.

That sequence of adventures started off with the endlessly re-printed Mirror Universe Saga, which was a strong start, and Diane Duane contributed a couple of stories over three issues of excellent quality.

Yeah. MWB wrote in his retrospective of Star Trek comics in BACK ISSUE #5 that he was supposed to be leaving the series only temporarily after the Mirror Universe Saga, but he got sidetracked with other projects at DC, namely writing both the newsstand version of Batman and the Outsiders and the direct sales only The Outsiders, and then his all-too-brief run on Detective Comics with artist Alan Davis. By the time Barr had time in his schedule again to write more Trek, the editorship of the Star Trek books had changed.

It's too bad Barr didn't get a chance to play around with the new status quo he set up between STIII and IV with Kirk's crew on the Excelsior and Spock commanding a new crew on the Surak. It would've been fun to see what he would've done with it. And let's not forget that MWB had a Klingon serving on Kirk's Enterprise years before TNG came along!

After Barr's departure, there were some good individual issues (I really like Len Wein's 20th anniversary story where the TOS era crew met their future counterparts from the movie era, Diane Duane did some good stories, and it was always a treat to see Dan Spiegle or Gray Morrow draw Trek), but when you don't have a regular creative team in comics, a book will almost inevitably flounder. You can't really do any long-running subplots or plot developments when someone else is going to be writing the book in another issue or two. And the first DC run probably did a few too many follow ups to TOS episodes in the post TWOK era, with sequels to "The Apple," "Wolf in the Fold," the Mirror Universe Saga, and another return of Harry Mudd, all in the space of a few years.

I agree with JonnyQuest037's assessment. Mike's initial run on the series was my favorite.

Wow, I'm a bit surprised to hear that. I wouldn't have thought that Mike's Trek stuff would be up your alley, since you tend to go for a harder SF approach to Trek than he does. But then again, you two did both work on that Mere Anarchy e-book series with several other Trek authors. (Which, BTW, I remember quite enjoying, even though I haven't read it since 2009.)

Isabella was going to become the new regular writer, but he had to drop out after one issue and was replaced by Len Wein

Wow, I either haven't heard this before or I'd forgotten. Do you know why Tony left the book?

(I can't remember if that happened, my overall impression of Bearclaw is that he was consistently exasperating).

Yeah, basically they fell into a rut with Bearclaw, where he typically did something hotheaded or disobeyed orders practically every story. It got old pretty fast. Peter David did some decent work redeeming Bearclaw in the last chunk of issues he wrote.

 

[Allyn Gibson]

This was such a fun post to read! I love this as a blueprint/outline for how to run it, post-TVH. And it fits with some of my own thoughts, I like the idea of seeing if Brinks is up to the challenge of taking the center seat of the Surak, for one thing.

Also agree about transferring some of the Mike Barr's characters over to the Surak, although given the way Bearclaw is spiraling in Peter David's run of stories, because that's fresh on my mind I could see the scenario where Kirk (and everyone else) get tired of Bearclaw sooner and send him off.

I wasn't sure about your idea of Saavik at first, but that would be interesting to see how things are different between her and Brinks, compared to Spock and Brinks, so after sitting with it, that's actually an exciting idea, to compare where there are similarities and differences.

Bearclaw and Sherwood to the Surak would also work.

My thinking stems from how the film franchise developed between 1982 and 1986. Star Trek II feels like the beginning of a move to pass the torch to a new generation of characters, and Mike W. Barr's original characters grow out of that. But by the time we get to Star Trek IV four and a half years later, we've retrenched (classic) Star Trek on the Big Seven. The youthquake of 1982 has rumbled away. David's dead, Saavik's written out, there are no youthful faces anymore. There is a need for familiar faces among the junior officers, since the Big Seven cannot provide them, but in a situation where there's no stable writer, writers are usually going to gravitate to the familiar (the Big Seven) than develop the minor original characters.

Saavik on the Surak comes from a different place, though. It's about putting a recent and familiar canon character on the ship, since there are so few of those around. "Few"? I may be overcounting...

Then when you put the two together -- MWB OCs and Saavik on an original ship -- the spirit of their creation, the Youthquake of 1982, lives on. At least for another few months.

MWB wrote in his retrospective of Star Trek comics in BACK ISSUE #5 that he was supposed to be leaving the series only temporarily after the Mirror Universe Saga, but he got sidetracked with other projects at DC, namely writing both the newsstand version of Batman and the Outsiders and the direct sales only The Outsiders, and then his all-too-brief run on Detective Comics with artist Alan Davis. By the time Barr had time in his schedule again to write more Trek, the editorship of the Star Trek books had changed.

I'm questioning the issue being the editor, as Bob Greenberger was the editor on the first series from fairy early on (after Marv Wolfman), and remained so into the second series. And I recall in the letter columns in 1985 that Bob was saying that Mike would return to the series when he could. So, unless Mike was backed up on work for five years (which takes us into the Howard Weinstein era on the second series), I don't quite see how his recollection works.

 

[JonnyQuest037]

Star Trek II feels like the beginning of a move to pass the torch to a new generation of characters, and Mike W. Barr's original characters grow out of that. But by the time we get to Star Trek IV four and a half years later, we've retrenched (classic) Star Trek on the Big Seven. The youthquake of 1982 has rumbled away. David's dead, Saavik's written out, there are no youthful faces anymore.

Yeah, I agree. Although I love the accidental trilogy of STII-IV, the one thing that's kind of a drag is the way they write out TWOK's next generation of Saavik and David. That's when the Trek movies became (as Roger Ebert wisely observed) more family reunions than new stories, and they missed the opportunity to have a smooth transition into new characters who could carry the franchise forward.

There is a need for familiar faces among the junior officers, since the Big Seven cannot provide them, but in a situation where there's no stable writer, writers are usually going to gravitate to the familiar (the Big Seven) than develop the minor original characters.

Yes, absolutely. And there's no guarantee that a new writer would automatically want to develop the original characters created by somebody else. Or maybe they only like Konom, but find Bryce and Bearclaw boring. (I'm not saying this happened. I'm only picking a random hypothetical example.)

Writers, for the most part, are more interested in telling their own stories than continuing the ones started by someone else.

I'm questioning the issue being the editor, as Bob Greenberger was the editor on the first series from fairy early on (after Marv Wolfman), and remained so into the second series. And I recall in the letter columns in 1985 that Bob was saying that Mike would return to the series when he could. So, unless Mike was backed up on work for five years (which takes us into the Howard Weinstein era on the second series), I don't quite see how his recollection works.

<shrug> I dunno. I'm not saying that MWB's memory is infallible. I'm only relating what he wrote about his tenure on the Trek books in 2004. I was posting at 12:30 at night, and I wasn't about to track down exactly which issue the editorial team changed just to fact check something Barr wrote 20 years ago.

Since I still have my copy of BI #5 handy, here is what MWB wrote about the editors on the book:

With issue #12, I became co-editor of the book, with Marv [Wolfman]. I no longer recall the reasons for this change, only that it happened. Marv and I continued to confer closely over plots; Marv enjoyed tossing me plotting challenges, and I enjoyed the mental gymnastics involved in cracking them. [...] Since Marv and I were both freelancers, DC appointed staffer Bob Greenberger as our associate editor. [...] Bob would eventually become full editor on the title, editing Annual #2 and soon making his own mark on the book. Marv had departed by that time to oversee the hardcover/softcover New Teen Titans.

And I don't think it was MWB being "backed up on work" so much as him just being busy writing other stuff. There are only so many hours in the day, and there are only so many comics a writer can comfortably write in a month. I don't know many comic writers who can write more than 3-4 books a month.

But it's worth noting that Barr's career was in a different place in 1987 when he left Detective Comics than it was when he started writing Star Trek in 1983-84. For starters, he was fired as an editor for publicly expressing the opinion that Bill Finger should be given credit as the co-creator of Batman. The official reason Barr was given was "speaking out against the company." According to the DC Database, Barr's last issue as editor of The Outsiders was #23 (Sept. 1987), so his firing would've happened somewhere around mid-1987. So likely a few bridges had been burned there.