A Klingon contradiction?

[Frontis]

First of all, I love the Klingons, they are one of my favorite species and I'm a big Worf fan.
But there is something that makes me wonder sometimes...
Doesn't the essence and culture of the Klingons somehow appear barbarous, animalistic and primitive? I don't mean this in a negative way. But doesn't this point out that they are historical far behind the evolution of human beings f.e.?
So, what I wonder about is, how can they be technical so advanced, having Warp and all those things?
Or is it just a different ethic, different thinking, different culture and religion?
Let me add, I'm glad the Klingons are like they are and without their technology many stories would be too different.
So it's rather a theoretical discussion, for those who care...

 

[fireproof78]

So, what I wonder about is, how can they be technical so advanced, having Warp and all those things?
Or is it just a different ethic, different thinking, different culture and religion?

This has been a fan theory that the Klingons took all the technology from the Hur'q (spelling?) and that was part of the reason for their advancement and able to keep pace with other powers. I think the other side of that is that the Klingons value supremacy above all. As Kor notes, they are the stronger. They have a hard push outward because they have limited resources, so that need to conquer remains, regardless of technological advancement.

I think they have a huge ideal in their honor, and that's reflected best by Worf, who grew up seeing that ideal, but not the practical aspects of the day to day living of the Klingons, working to survive, have enough resources, and continue their expansion.

 

[BillJ]

Whose to say there is only one road to technological relevance?

 

[Ray Hardgrit]

The Enterprise episode Judgment has a line explaining that Klingons used to be less barbaric until the warrior caste gained more power. Young people were told that there was honour in any victory, even over the weak, so they flocked to the military.

 

[fireproof78]

KOR: Why not? We're the stronger! You've tried to hem us in, cut off vital supplies, strangle our trade!

 

[CorporalCaptain]

But doesn't this point out that they are historical far behind the evolution of human beings f.e.?

No. When they evolved, Klingons would have adapted to the environment on Qo'noS, not Earth, just as humans adapted to the environment on Earth, not Qo'noS.

As the dominant species on their planet, Klingons were well adapted to their environment. Technologically, the Klingon Empire and the Federation had comparable technology; Klingons weren't far behind at all.

Assuming the Klingons developed their own technology, or enough of it to secure their position in their own environment themselves, it was because their adaptation to their own environment enabled such development and perhaps even also necessitated it.

 

[Farscape One]

First of all, I love the Klingons, they are one of my favorite species and I'm a big Worf fan.
But there is something that makes me wonder sometimes...
Doesn't the essence and culture of the Klingons somehow appear barbarous, animalistic and primitive? I don't mean this in a negative way. But doesn't this point out that they are historical far behind the evolution of human beings f.e.?
So, what I wonder about is, how can they be technical so advanced, having Warp and all those things?
Or is it just a different ethic, different thinking, different culture and religion?
Let me add, I'm glad the Klingons are like they are and without their technology many stories would be too different.
So it's rather a theoretical discussion, for those who care...

I don't think the Klingons are less evolved or backwards than, say, Vulcans. They simply have a different mindset in how they go about life.

Klingons do everything to the fullest... party, love, fight. Everything. I think the best song to describe Klingons is "Lick It Up", by KISS. A sample of the lyrics...

Life's such a treat and it's time you taste it
There ain't a reason on Earth to waste it


Like the song, Klingons are all about living life to the max, savoring every bit of life. Even when going out to face death. Especially when they go out to battle and face death. Jadzia said to Kang that Klingons seem to treat death like a lover... and she is right. In many ways, death IS a lover and close companion and friend to the Klingons. But that just REINFORCES their mindset to live each moment to the max.

Consider this: it's been said by some people that have had near death experiences that they have never felt more alive than after surviving whatever ordeal they went through. That moment of near death sort of exhilarated them and made them appreciate things in a way they didn't before. They felt TRULY alive. I think Klingons simply take that philosophy and apply it on a near daily basis.

When you look deeper at Klingon behavior, you can see these things... and it's honestly something to greatly admire. Not the 'ready to fight and die at the drop of a hat' part, but the 'I'm going to live my days to the fullest' part. And THAT is what many people overlook when they see Klingons.


And there was a reason why I picked Vulcans as a comparison... they are almost an exact mirror opposite to Klingons. They are FAR more repressed and controlled. Controlled to the point that their own biology betrays them every 7 years.



(Side note: Klingons and Vulcans are probably THE very two species that are the faces of the franchise. And my wife is, ironically, NOT a fan of either, as a whole. She finds them both either 'caricatures' (Klingons) or 'boring' (Vulcans). Her words, not mine. But I asked her if she had to choose between them, which does she prefer. And her answer? Klingons, because "at least they are entertaining".)

 

[David cgc]

You know, I don't think we've actually seen it, but it would be interesting to have someone (especially a Klingon) meet someone like Tuvok and do the whole condescending, "Ooh, a Vulcan warrior, how bizarre," thing that tends to happen when there's a Klingon scientist or doctor in an episode.

 

[The Wormhole]

In my "head canon" I've always assumed the Klingon religion played a part in them developing spacefaring technology and warp drive. Kahless pointed to a star in the night sky and said he would return there, thereby giving Klingons the drive to find a way to get to that particular star.

 

[NCC-73515]

Were they invaded by the Hur'q before or after they developed spaceflight?

 

[C.E. Evans]

I think the seemingly contradictory nature of the Klingons is what makes them alien to us. They can be both barbaric and highly technologically advanced.

It's also possible that we generally see the Klingons only through the eyes of its warriors. I have no doubt there are Klingon scientists and engineers that are on par with those of the Federation, but since we rarely encounter them, it's easy to think they don't exist, IMO.

 

[Frontis]

Now I remember a Klingon scientist in ENT.
It was in the episode about the Super Klingons I think...

 

[Dukhat]

Talk about contradictions: The Klingons as seen in ENT are far more technologically advanced than humans (despite their barbaric nature), yet by the time of TOS the Klingons and the Federation are basically on equal terms tech-wise.

 

[C.E. Evans]

Talk about contradictions: The Klingons as seen in ENT are far more technologically advanced than humans (despite their barbaric nature), yet by the time of TOS the Klingons and the Federation are basically on equal terms tech-wise.

Just like people, civilizations move at different rates and some can catch up to others very fast. By the time of TOS, the much older Klingon Empire found itself competing for territory with a Federation that only been around for a century.

One thing that frightened Vulcans in ENT was how fast Humans caught up with them. Doing in less than a century what it took them thousands of years to do.

 

[Dukhat]

Just like people, civilizations move at different rates and some can catch up to others very fast. By the time of TOS, the much older Klingon Empire found itself competing for territory with a Federation that only been around for a century.

I get that. But once it was clear that the Federation were the new kids on the block and the Klingon Empire was now basically hemmed in by formerly non-aligned races, one would think that they would have upped their game so that by TOS, they would be far more advanced than what was shown, at the least in the interests of self-preservation (which was a concern based on Kruge's comments in STIII.) But that wasn't the case.

 

[C.E. Evans]

I get that. But once it was clear that the Federation were the new kids on the block and the Klingon Empire was now basically hemmed in by formerly non-aligned races, one would think that they would have upped their game so that by TOS, they would be far more advanced than what was shown, at the least in the interests of self-preservation (which was a concern based on Kruge's comments in STIII.) But that wasn't the case.

Very few civilizations probably can do that. So what happens? Either they are simply overtaken or they get involved in conflicts with the newcomers over territory and resources.

 

[Frontis]

Somehow the Klingons always managed to get what they want.
So they f.e. got the cloaking device from the Romulans.

 

[FormerLurker]

Were they invaded by the Hur'q before or after they developed spaceflight?

Probably after, because -

Kahless pointed to a star in the night sky and said he would return there, thereby giving Klingons the drive to find a way to get to that particular star.

The Hur'q invasion allowed them to accelerate their technological advancement, but is not solely responsible for it.

 

[Richard Baker]

I think the Klingons are very pragmatic with technology. They find something that works, a good reliable weapon, a good hull design, and this tech does what they need it for. Minor upgrades happen, but they are comfortable with what works.
When the Klingons encounter a new species or situation which their current tech does not meet their needs then they either aquire or get serious about advancing it. NX ships were not considered a threat, when they lost in battle it was mostly by tactics, not tech ( like Archer pulling off a nacelles with grappling lines). Humans did surprise them with antimatter warheads, but it was a while before the Federation existed and Earth was still considered not a threat by itself. By TOS Era the Federation and the Empire were roughly equivalent in tech levels, the D-7 and Constitution equally matched. The Federation was considered weak since they did not follow the expected course of expansion by conquest which the Klingons felt was natural.
Gradual upgrades on both sides brought on the D-7M (k'Tinga) and Refit. I think the Genesis device really freaked the Klingons out as it was an incredible leap in weapons tech in their minds. Next step, try to aquire it.
I think the Klingons have different priorities culturally and only really advance technologically when they see a need for it

 

[F. King Daniel]

Long before TNG came up with the Hur'q, Barbara Hambly's novel Ishmael (yes, the infamous Here Come the Brides crossover with cameos by Doctor Who, Han Solo and others) gave us the backstory that Klingons were a primitive people enslaved by the Karsid Empire, and much like the Kazon and the Trabe, the Klingons got all their ships and technology from the Karsids... who all vanished without a trace once day in a set up that was never followed up on.

It explained nicely how and why such a ridiculous culture like the Klingons were somehow in space in ships that were always old and literally rusty inside. The ships were all ancient.

Of course, it doesn't work with things modern Trek has established about the Klingons, although the Hur'q thing is pretty much the canon version of it.