Spoilers Empire of Death grade and discussion thread

[jaime]

I've always liked Terror of the Vervoids, too. Probably my favorite segment of the Trial season.

It’s a fifty fifty shot, as most of the other bits had flaws in them because of the overall trial story. It’s the most like modern who in terms of storytelling the classic era ever was really.
Vervoids was decently clever in places, and did decent Christie pastiche. Wasn’t it Pip & Jane?

 

[Steve Roby]

When I started watching Doctor Who in 2001, I bought the videos pretty randomly, depending on what was available. I got Trial early on and liked Terror of the Vervoids just fine. I wasn't making much of an effort to read up on and absorb received wisdom about which episodes, Doctors, or companions were good and which weren't, just taking them as they came.

 

[Allyn Gibson]

...and so begins the newest Doctor Who meme trend: Inserting Sutekh (any version of him) into memorable moments involving the TARDIS post-Pyramids of Mars.

I saw someone on Twitter say last night that Sutekh is the Anti-Clara -- they're both there at every major moment of the Doctor's life.

When Jack attached himself to the outside of the TARDIS in "Utopia," I wonder what Sutekh and Jack talked about?

Seriously, though. I'm just chalking this up to some weird consequence of bi-generation. Sutekh wasn't there... until things got weird and he was.

 

[jaime]

I saw someone on Twitter say last night that Sutekh is the Anti-Clara -- they're both there at every major moment of the Doctor's life.

When Jack attached himself to the outside of the TARDIS in "Utopia," I wonder what Sutekh and Jack talked about?

Seriously, though. I'm just chalking this up to some weird consequence of bi-generation. Sutekh wasn't there... until things got weird and he was.

Which was explicitly how Clara was done at least.

This would have been a fair but less silly (and it is, and the various photo edits are fun but proving that…) if it had been presented as a more recent event. I mean, it’s borderline Voldemort stuff anyway, so why not just have him drift for centuries in the vortex, trailing in the doctors wake — powerless to do anything except pop his little avatars in because he needed to trap the Doctor into acknowledging him before he could return. (Which would explain what the whole trap thing was about anyway, because as it stands it’s kind of… why?) Of course, it would then need a better ending than taking the dog for a walk with prejudice. So that’s another improvement.
So far we have had a Demi-god defeated by playing catch with a ball (doing PE when you forget your kit no less) and now one done in by taking it walkies. Join us next season, when The Doctor will smack one in the nose with a rolled up newspaper, and another by using a Dalek ship as a large frisbee. Awkwardness ensues when he tries mixing Fenric’s medicine into his dinner though.

 

[Asbo Zaprudder]

https://chakoteya.net/DoctorWho/40-05.html

DAVINA: So life's been good, would you say?
RUBY: Yeah. Not bad. I mean, we've had a mad time with it, haven't we? And my A-levels were not the best, cos we had to leave Manchester to move down here, cos we came and looked after my gran and we couldn't afford care and she would never move to the north, not in a million years. So, yeah, that's been tricky and expensive.
DAVINA: No one would move to London.

It's right at the start of Ruby's story.

Thanks, I missed that as I tend to tune out anything containing Davina McCall after she dissed science some years ago .

 

[Seven of Five]

I enjoyed this - what a bittersweet ending to the season.

I didn't realise that Ruby was going to be a one-and-done companion, but she had the perfect end considering her story so far.

Ncuti Gatwa was all kinds of awesome in the episode. He was disappointed with himself because of the way he had to handle the creepy Surkhet, and also had to bid farewell to Ruby.

 

[Allyn Gibson]

Which was explicitly how Clara was done at least.

This would have been a fair but less silly (and it is, and the various photo edits are fun but proving that…) if it had been presented as a more recent event.

I like the idea that Sutekh was just floating around the vortex. Otherwise, you run into problems wher Sutekh's present like... Why didn't Borusa ally with Sutekh against the four Doctors in "The Five Doctors"? Why didn't the Time Lords make use of Sutekh during the Time War?

I keep thinking about the bi-generation and the duplicating of the TARDIS, though...

The TARDIS is a complex space-time event. Maybe Sutekh had always been there, but the TARDIS had been able to imprison Sutekh within its 26-dimension math... until Fifteen took a mallet to it and duplicated it.

Alternatively, just as the TARDIS told Eleven she took him where he needed to go, it's possible that the TARDIS didn't let Sutekh out of its imprisonment within its complex math until, in her judgment, the Doctor needed her to.

 

[DigificWriter]

Just a quick reminder that, the ending of this episode notwithstanding, claims/rumors about Millie leaving either before or during Series 15 have been explicitly debunked by RTD.

 

[jaime]

I like the idea that Sutekh was just floating around the vortex. Otherwise, you run into problems wher Sutekh's present like... Why didn't Borusa ally with Sutekh against the four Doctors in "The Five Doctors"? Why didn't the Time Lords make use of Sutekh during the Time War?

I keep thinking about the bi-generation and the duplicating of the TARDIS, though...

The TARDIS is a complex space-time event. Maybe Sutekh had always been there, but the TARDIS had been able to imprison Sutekh within its 26-dimension math... until Fifteen took a mallet to it and duplicated it.

Alternatively, just as the TARDIS told Eleven she took him where he needed to go, it's possible that the TARDIS didn't let Sutekh out of its imprisonment within its complex math until, in her judgment, the Doctor needed her to.

Sadly wouldn’t get rid of issues like where he was every time the Tardis went boom over the last few years.
The mallet thing still bugs me, so am trying not think about it too much.
(Which reminds me. Also, hey look a disabled acces ramp — not a one of characters that use aids are gonna be shown using it though, so may as well have added a sunroof!)
I mean here would have been the perfect opportunity to have a villain confirm what the Doctor theorised with a bit of:
THE WILL OF SUTEKH WAS ALL THAT SURVIVED. AT THE EDGE I WAITED. AND THEN THE IRONY THAT IT WAS YOU DOCTOR, THAT ALLOWED ME BACK IN. I SHALL SAVE YOUR DEATH FOR LAST OF ALL. THAT IS MY GIFT.

But nope. Let’s rush about a bit and be silly instead.
(Edit: I try to think of the mallet bit as a shite version of ‘Temporal Fission.’)

 

[jaime]

Just a quick reminder that, the ending of this episode notwithstanding, claims/rumors about Millie leaving either before or during Series 15 have been explicitly debunked by RTD.

Not saying that isn’t true, but would you believe much he says these days?

 

[DigificWriter]

I didn't realise that Ruby was going to be a one-and-done companion

She isn't.

Despite the ending of this episode making it seem otherwise, Millie will be returning for all of Series 15 (this has been explicitly confirmed by RTD) alongside Ncuti and Varada Sethu.

 

[Nerys Myk]

When Jack attached himself to the outside of the TARDIS in "Utopia," I wonder what Sutekh and Jack talked about?

Jack hit on him of course.

 

[The Nth Doctor]

I actually particularly like Terror of the Vervoids. I'm pretty sure (but not positive) that's an unusual view. But it's got a great story, Mel is excellent, and it's only letdown by a particularly low budget look (but that's a non-issue for me). I don't listen Big Finish so wasn't aware of her material there, but great to hear that it's been good.

I've always liked Terror of the Vervoids, too. Probably my favorite segment of the Trial season.

Definitely my favorite story from the Trial season (albeit a low bar). I've always had a great fondness for the serial and defended it whenever needed. Plus, Mel has a scream in that story that's genuinely earned, as oppose to the many that followed.

I saw someone on Twitter say last night that Sutekh is the Anti-Clara -- they're both there at every major moment of the Doctor's life.

Oh, that's a fun notion. The only difference is that Clara is implied to have effective moments in The Doctor's life while Sutekh was a silent observer.

When Jack attached himself to the outside of the TARDIS in "Utopia," I wonder what Sutekh and Jack talked about?

...and so begins another meme trend!

But, yes, @Nerys Myk noted, Jack clearly flirted with him.

Seriously, though. I'm just chalking this up to some weird consequence of bi-generation. Sutekh wasn't there... until things got weird and he was.

I keep thinking about the bi-generation and the duplicating of the TARDIS, though...

The TARDIS is a complex space-time event. Maybe Sutekh had always been there, but the TARDIS had been able to imprison Sutekh within its 26-dimension math... until Fifteen took a mallet to it and duplicated it.

I thought about the mallet duplication, too, and wondered how that effected Sutekh. I wondered more along the lines of whether Sutekh was duplicated but I like your idea of the duplication released him from his prison.

I doubt we'll ever get a straight answer on this point. It's better to be left open to interpretation.

Alternatively, just as the TARDIS told Eleven she took him where he needed to go, it's possible that the TARDIS didn't let Sutekh out of its imprisonment within its complex math until, in her judgment, the Doctor needed her to.

Perhaps she decided the duplication was that time. One Doctor goes off to heal, while the other Doctor finally has to face Sutekh.

 

[The Laughing Vulcan]

Sneak peak from next season should settle the Millie speculation

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[Chakoteya]

Okay, so... seen all that. Now what do I do?
a) hide under the duvet and scream until I'm sick?
b) swear by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish that I will never watch/transcribe another Who episode that has RTD anywhere near it?
c) spend the next 6 months listening to fun Dr Who audios like Max Warp, Dr Who and the Pirates (Sixie sings! ) and the vast majority of 4th Doctor adventures just to cleanse my soul of that... aberration?
d) any other ideas?

 

[jaime]

Okay, so... seen all that. Now what do I do?
a) hide under the duvet and scream until I'm sick?
b) swear by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish that I will never watch/transcribe another Who episode that has RTD anywhere near it?
c) spend the next 6 months listening to fun Dr Who audios like Max Warp, Dr Who and the Pirates (Sixie sings! ) and the vast majority of 4th Doctor adventures just to cleanse my soul of that... aberration?
d) any other ideas?

The video doesn’t show up in my browser, but this reaction has me concerned lol.
Also, Max Warp makes me sad as it reminds me CHM are hanging up their driving gloves later this year. (Not that they wear any.)

(Edit: oh it’s that clip. I don’t mind it so much. But I’ve learned to manage my expectations.)

 

[Starkers]

O

She isn't.

Despite the ending of this episode making it seem otherwise, Millie will be returning for all of Series 15 (this has been explicitly confirmed by RTD) alongside Ncuti and Varada Sethu.

It's been confirmed she's returning in Season 15, I'm not sure it's been confirmed that she will be in every episode, happy to be proven wrong if you can provide some links that confirm this.

 

[DigificWriter]

O


It's been confirmed she's returning in Season 15, I'm not sure it's been confirmed that she will be in every episode, happy to be proven wrong if you can provide some links that confirm this.

A quote directly from RTD, along with the source from whence it came:

"Not leaving. Not at all. We were ordered for two years of a series off Disney, and we're delivering two years, and the Ruby Sunday story literally spans those two years. [...] We are planning [to] shoot the [Season 2] finale in which Ruby has the most magnificent scenes, and Millie, it's some of your most challenging material yet, isn't it? It will all make sense once you see it play out."

'Doctor Who': Russell T. Davies Finally Shuts Down Rumors of Millie Gibson's Exit

Doctor Who showrunner Russell T. Davies addresses the rumors about Millie Gibson leaving the series confirming she is a major part of both seasons.

collider.com

That doesn't necessarily mean that she won't be absent from any Series 15 episodes, but it does directly debunk the claims that she was leaving the show during said season and that Varada Sethu was replacing her.

 

[Starkers]

You said RTD had explicitly said Millie would be returning for all of S15. You haven't provided any evidence that he said that.

 

[DigificWriter]

You said RTD had explicitly said Millie would be returning for all of S15. You haven't provided any evidence that he said that.

The quote I cited talks about Millie being a critical part of Series 15 as a whole and cites its finale specifically. Given that the rumors/claims were that, despite having been confirmed to be seen filming for Series 15, Millie would still be departing the show (meaning that she would leave at some point during Series 15), the quote I cited serves as an explicit rebuttal to those claims.