I really don't care. I watch for the story, not the effects.
Your Calls: CGI Made it Better, CGI Made it Worse.
- Thread starter ZapBrannigan
- Start date
I’m 44, about to turn 45. I didn’t watch TOS until I was about 25 when it came out in the yellow/blue/red DVD boxsets. So I’ve no childhood nostalgia for the original version.
To me, the very idea of it just creates a disconnect for me when I’m watching. The sets, music, costumes, acting… all speak of the 1960s. Indelibly, I would say. So when there’s a shonky special effect then… well I can just get on with it as part of the overall piece.
The Gorn looks ridiculous, but in a kind of a cool ‘60s monster way. Make it blink through CGI and… disconnect… I’m watching a ‘60s show with ‘00 stuff layered in.
To be clear, I don’t hate TOSR. I can get along with it. If I had no other way to watch, I’d watch (unlike VOY and DS9 in their present condition).
I see the merit in it. It’s just not for me.
To me, the very idea of it just creates a disconnect for me when I’m watching. The sets, music, costumes, acting… all speak of the 1960s. Indelibly, I would say. So when there’s a shonky special effect then… well I can just get on with it as part of the overall piece.
The Gorn looks ridiculous, but in a kind of a cool ‘60s monster way. Make it blink through CGI and… disconnect… I’m watching a ‘60s show with ‘00 stuff layered in.
To be clear, I don’t hate TOSR. I can get along with it. If I had no other way to watch, I’d watch (unlike VOY and DS9 in their present condition).
I see the merit in it. It’s just not for me.
I would have rather just the original effects be cleaned up or re-rendered exactly the way they were for HD tv. I can't find it but someone on YouTube had the original effects with all the grain/ghosting etc removed and they looked fantastic.
At least we can enjoy the original effects on DVD/Blu-ray....
At least we can enjoy the original effects on DVD/Blu-ray....
The remastered effects were just a gimmick but I think what TOSR originally set out to do was successful. When it initially aired, there was a lot of interest and curiosity that got a lot media attention and got a lot of people to watch the original series again or for the first time; I think the ratings were great. It was kind of exciting to see what they had done . . . well until the first one, "Balance of Terror" aired and it looked terrible, lol. I think it did help reignite the TOS franchise and introduce it to a new generation of fans but TOSR should not have become the standard that is shown on todays platforms. It's funny, I was recently approached to create a video using clips from TOS for the viewscreen for an upcoming large-scaled bridge replica. I was provided a list of the shots they wanted to include; CBS wanted to make sure that some of the remastered effects from TOSR were included on the list (which I thought was a terrible idea).
It would be interesting to also include your age along with your preference because I suspect most of us older fans who watched the original or early syndication runs generally prefer the original effects but I would like to confirm my theory!
I for one dislike the whole concept of the remastered effects. If they were going to do anything to improve the original effects the most they should have done is to remove matt lines around the ships, and other small things to correct some minor flaws. To recreate shots is akin to "fixing" the Mona Lisa or some other historic piece of art.
I am 63.
I'm 51. I watched reruns of TOS as a kid, and was into stuff like FASA and Star Fleet Battles. The TOS films were the pinnacle of my Trek enjoyment. I initially didn't like TNG when it premiered, but it grew on me over time.
That was the biggest problem I had. The new stuff didn't fit.
I wish they'd done Star Trek Continues, and just recreated the old shots exactly. As is, it's a halfway between re-imagining and being true to the original and fails at both, IMHO.
I was always a little annoyed that they treated TNG-R like the holiest of holies and didn't apply the same reasoning for the TOS-R changes, particularly the bit about "we only changed things to look like what the original TOS producers could have done with more time or money"... because I'm pretty sure the TNG production would have liked to use new models for 24th century ships instead of making it look like Starfleet used the same ships for 80+ years.
That's what i would have preferred, digitally cleaning up some of the messier shots. The furthest I would have gone is swapping out shots of the pilot models using different, but existing, stock footage shots of the series version so Enterprise had a consistent look over the course of an episode.
While I agree that TNG would definitely have used new ships if they had the budget for it, I don't think I would have wanted them to replace all the model shots with CGI, despite my personal want for them to be newer designs (the Oberth class Tsiolkovsky springs to mind, not to mention those ridiculously scaled-up BoPs in 'The Defector' and 'Yesterday's Enterprise'...)
Now with that said, if DS9 ever gets a remaster, I would want all the CGI fleet scenes to be replaced with newer CGI showing newer designs. It's a whole bunch of ships; they don't have to slavishly recreate all those Mirandas and Excelsiors. They could create new ship designs to replace them, or at best complement the old ships with newer ones.
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To me, the Gorn looked like it had compound eyes anyway, so why would it blink?
I think the ‘sixties-mess’ of TOS is very much one of it’s attractions, and that the original special effects are part and parcel of that.
I think the ‘sixties-mess’ of TOS is very much one of it’s attractions, and that the original special effects are part and parcel of that.
The Doomsday Machine, The Enterprise Incident, and Space Seed exemplified what the CGI could do to great effect to really draw out the scripting and live action scenes' impact that much more. Which is amazing as the CGI in the remastered version did look subpar compared to most shows and movies using CGI at the time. That said, I was focused more on what they would do, and if they would go overboard or if they would craft it to fit the episodes. For the latter, TOS-R is often supreme and gets it just right, with nothing overdone or excessive. Great stuff.
The Tholian Web's new works do fix some issues they couldn't have done in the original, but the original's are soooooooo good as they are!
As much as I like the protoplasm liquid CGI in "The Immunity Syndrome", something about the new CGI in that episode doesn't quite fit and the original still wins me over by far.
The Tholian Web's new works do fix some issues they couldn't have done in the original, but the original's are soooooooo good as they are!
As much as I like the protoplasm liquid CGI in "The Immunity Syndrome", something about the new CGI in that episode doesn't quite fit and the original still wins me over by far.
Worse. Some of my reasons:
-They were done on the cheap and they looked it from day one.
-The team added stuff from later productions (example using TAS and TSFS elements in Amok Time).
-There didn't seem to be anyone involved that understood the basics of cinematography and editing of the 1960s.
-The FX team never seemed to read the script, giving us things like an out of control Botany Bay rather than one whose 'on automatic' or 'being used by aliens'.
I'm 63 and I'm not sure if I like the implication that age prevents me from having an objective opinion.
-They were done on the cheap and they looked it from day one.
-The team added stuff from later productions (example using TAS and TSFS elements in Amok Time).
-There didn't seem to be anyone involved that understood the basics of cinematography and editing of the 1960s.
-The FX team never seemed to read the script, giving us things like an out of control Botany Bay rather than one whose 'on automatic' or 'being used by aliens'.
I'm 63 and I'm not sure if I like the implication that age prevents me from having an objective opinion.
For me, I'm sure nostalgia does play some part. Stepping back now, in 2024, it is clear that the CGI done by CBS was a cheap rush job. All one has to do is look at the low-poly Klingon ship models in "The Enterprise Incident".
While I think they did a poor overall job, I can't complain, as it gave me another reason to go through TOS all over again. I don't mind them trying to update things, but they should make sure the original is available to the general public and if they try again, spend some actual money and have someone that has an eye for making TV effects.
I understand that as well. It's just way too easy for that to become a straw-man argument for dismissal of any and all criticism.
Yeah, there was a lot of it back then. I do remember one guy, who always claimed because it was new, it was better. He was a treat.
EDIT: Looks at join date. Heck, you were probably around for it.
It was more a question than an implication I thought. And besides, opinions are subjective by nature.
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