The Earth - Romulan War (non-canon)

[evilchumlee]

Rather than edit my wall of text, i'll add something here. I had another thought... we tend think alot about WHAT is fighting, but i'd love some more discussion on HOW the war was fought.

I'm curious about how you have the war going. I try to stick to any established canon as close as possible, so I definitely try to keep it a scenario where there is only subspace radio communications and nobody ever actually sees the Romulans. I prefer to not go the "they worse masks!" route because... I mean... at some point someone should be able to take a mask off?

I prefer to it be an entirely space-based war. The way it makes sense to me is that the Coalition only has a vague awareness of where Romulan space even is, while the Romulans have been actively infiltrating other powers for decades at least. Rather than a true "border", the Coalition knows of what is essentially a battle line that the Romulans are defending, and they are defending it well. The area is essentially completely uncharted and ships trying to enter the area are basically flying blind, and get ambushed by Romulan ships.

The war is all about diversion for the Romulans and utilizing their intelligence acquired to misdirect the Coalition fleets and find pockets they can strike at. Rather than a straight up line-to-line battle, I see most of the war being an extended "Balance of Terror", a cat and mouse game of Coalition forces trying to hunt down Romulan ships, and Romulan ships trying to find a hole to break through, strike at a Coalition world with a hit and run tactic, and repeat.

For the Romulans, the war is all about confusing the Coalition forces, swooping in and doing as much damage as possible. Just wanton, indiscriminate orbital bombardment. For the Coalition, it's about trying to fill gaps and stay on top of things, while also trying to figure out where the hell the Romulans are even coming from.

One good thing I think DSC did for the lore is to establish a reason for the Klingons not getting involved here... right about this time, they should be descending into their own civil war.

 

[HotRod]

I think the Coalition powers would be involved

I dunno. There's just something that appeals to me about Earth being on it's own in regards to the war. Sure, the Vulcans, Andorians, etc. would contribute supplies. But I could see them sitting this one out for various reasons. Plus, I only ever hear of it being the Earth - Romulan War.

Although those freighters are slow as molasses, not sure how much help they would be.

I kinda like the idea of ECS ships being offered free engine upgrades if they joined the war effort. Volunteer your ship for the war and receive a free Warp 4 engine.

I understand the thinking of giving them Phase Cannons and Photonic Torps like the NX, but I feel like it would make them just as complex/expensive as NX's at that point.

I could agree with you that the Torps could be a complicated upgrade. What with the handling of Antimatter. But the phase Cannons can't be to much of a hassle if the NX-01 Engineering staff could whip up a couple in a few days. Plus, we pretty much see them on all Earth ships after that point.

I try to reconcile canon wherever possible, so I ran with the idea that the war was fought with "primitive nuclear weapons"

I like to think the Spatial Torpedos can be loaded with nuclear warheads when a bigger punch is needed.

given the fact that the Daedalus is essentially a long tube, it felt natural for me that the "engineering hull" area was initially designed as a massive nuclear missile bay. They just loaded the things up with old style nukes, since the heavier hitting Photonic Torps were complicated and expensive... and the nukes proved effective against the fairly simplistic Romulan ships anyway.

I will say that I do kinda like the idea of at least some of the Daedalus class ships being glorified missile boats and just spamming an enemy fleet with nukes.

I generally have Starfleet taking over the reigns of the "space navy" so to speak prior to the war.

Didn't Beyond seemed to imply that Earth's military remained a separate entity until the formation of the Federation?

Freedom-Class is more top of the line late-2130's/early-2140's. I like to think they are largely irrelevant and there's only a handful of them at best. I honestly only ever factored in just the one.

Being that it's a Freedom Class and not a Franklin Class, I take that to imply there's more than one. In my mind, the design was a fairly common and unremarkable design. The Franklin herself was just a ship picked to test they're new engine. It topped out at warp 4 and got itself briefly in the history books until it was surpassed by Starfleet's NX Project.

 

[evilchumlee]

I dunno. There's just something that appeals to me about Earth being on it's own in regards to the war. Sure, the Vulcans, Andorians, etc. would contribute supplies. But I could see them sitting this one out for various reasons. Plus, I only ever hear of it being the Earth - Romulan War.

[/QUOTE]

I just feels odd that Earth goes it alone, despite having allies that everyone knows the Romulans had attacked already... and then it's that war which leads to the founding of the Federation.

Calling it the "Earth-Romulan War" is likely a bit of a colloquialization on the part of humans, similar to how Americans will say World War 2 lasted from 1941-1945...

I go with something of a hybrid approach... the war *IS* largely a human effort because the other powers were crippled early on while Earth geared up production. It took Earth some time to get ships built that could actually GET to the warzone... in the early period of the war, Earth was involved, but it was pretty much NX-01 and 02 trying to do things. We were able to commit a whopping two vessels. MAYBE NX-03 by that point.

By the time Earth can actually fight, Vulcan, Andor and Tellar largely can't.

I kinda like the idea of ECS ships being offered free engine upgrades if they joined the war effort. Volunteer your ship for the war and receive a free Warp 4 engine.

I could see it. I'm just not sure how "easy" it would be to upgrade a warp drive like that, but sure.

I've come around a bit and wanted to incorporate some "Beta canon" into my version and looked to the ST: Legacy game. I like the idea of using the Conestoga-type ships converted to military vessels, sort of like a design Earth already had that they could build fairly cheaply and easily, slap a better warp drive on it and send it out.

I could agree with you that the Torps could be a complicated upgrade. What with the handling of Antimatter. But the phase Cannons can't be to much of a hassle if the NX-01 Engineering staff could whip up a couple in a few days. Plus, we pretty much see them on all Earth ships after that point.

It's noted NX-01 *HAD* the phase cannons on board, they just weren't installed. They didn't just whip them up from nothing.

My reasoning for equipping early Dead's with lasers is twofold... trying to reconcile old canon, and also a justification that both the plasma weapons we see in early ENT and then the phase (particle) weapons must require some resources to operate. They require "ammunition" of sorts.

Lasers... just require power. Slap a big 'ol warp core in a little ship and you have, to quote a Palpatine, "unlimited power". A Daedalus with lasers could basically keep sustained fire indefinitely, as long as their reactor was working.

I like to think the Spatial Torpedos can be loaded with nuclear warheads when a bigger punch is needed.

That could work too. Also, "Spatial Torpedos" might already essentially just BE nukes. In... space.

Didn't Beyond seemed to imply that Earth's military remained a separate entity until the formation of the Federation?

It's alittle unclear. MACO's still existed until the formation of the Federation, although Beyond seems to run with the fact that Starfleet isn't a military, and implies that all military went away with the formation of the Federation, so those old soldiers were now expected to be explorers.

Although, in my version, it's not accurate to say the entirety of Earth's militaries were absorbed into Starfleet. Earth's space forces were consolidated into Starfleet. I've established a timeline that the national militaries, ground and space, existed until about 2154-55. At that point, the United Earth parliament passed a resolution to consolidate military forces and expand UE's direct control. At that point, everything integrated into UE service, with Starfleet taking over all space assets. The influx of military personnel into Starfleet was the shift into Starfleet becoming a bit more militarized itself.

Being that it's a Freedom Class and not a Franklin Class, I take that to imply there's more than one. In my mind, the design was a fairly common and unremarkable design. The Franklin herself was just a ship picked to test they're new engine. It topped out at warp 4 and got itself briefly in the history books until it was surpassed by Starfleet's NX Project.

Yeah that's true.

I had the Freedom-Class pegged as an NX-alternative from the start, intended to be a more ballsy testbed. There's no reason there can't be at least a few of them. I don't love it being a common design, but at least there several of them.

 

[HotRod]

I just feels odd that Earth goes it alone, despite having allies that everyone knows the Romulans had attacked already... and then it's that war which leads to the founding of the Federation.

In my own version of events, the Coalition powers largely stay out of the majority of the war due to their populations weariness of war. A feeling of "it's not our fight." Similar to America during the first part of both World Wars. Plus, we know the Romulans like to infiltrate their enemies at the political level. It's entirely possible Romulan agents are manipulating things behind the scene on Andoria and Tellar, just as they had on Vulcan.

I do like to think that eventually something happens that brings the Coalition powers into the war, which is what actually brings about the defeat of the Romulans.

It took Earth some time to get ships built that could actually GET to the warzone... in the early period of the war, Earth was involved, but it was pretty much NX-01 and 02 trying to do things. We were able to commit a whopping two vessels. MAYBE NX-03 by that point.

I look at the war, at least the early stages, as being being primarily a defensive war. Similar to England in WWII and the battle of Britain. The Romulans would constantly be sending sorties into the Sol system, pecking away at Earth's defenses until Earth manages to build up its forces enough to take the fight away from the home system.

I could see it. I'm just not sure how "easy" it would be to upgrade a warp drive like that, but sure.

it was implied in "Fortunate Son" that upgrading the ECS Fortunate from a Warp 1.8 engine to a Warp 3 engine was a relatively simple task. I just figure by the time of the war, Warp 4 engine had become more commonplace.

I like the idea of using the Conestoga-type ships converted to military vessels, sort of like a design Earth already had that they could build fairly cheaply and easily, slap a better warp drive on it and send it out.

I also like this idea. Though I'd keep them close to home. Sort of a "coastal defense" type of ship.

It's noted NX-01 *HAD* the phase cannons on board, they just weren't installed. They didn't just whip them up from nothing.

The NX-01 had one Phase Cannon on board. The other two were said to be made from scratch.

My reasoning for equipping early Dead's with lasers is twofold... trying to reconcile old canon, and also a justification that both the plasma weapons we see in early ENT and then the phase (particle) weapons must require some resources to operate. They require "ammunition" of Lasers.

I know Lasers were in "The Cage," but that's just one of those things I try to ignore from the early days of Trek. Other series have explicitly said that Lasers were pretty much useless. Plus, I kinda view the plasma cannon as the bottom of the barrel in terms of weapons in Starfleet. They're cheap and simple enough that even the Freighters use them. Hell, farmers use them for home defense. I think Enterprise made it clear enough that Phase Cannons were the next step up.

Lasers... just require power. Slap a big 'ol warp core in a little ship and you have, to quote a Palpatine, "unlimited power". A Daedalus with lasers could basically keep sustained fire indefinitely, as long as their reactor was working.

Isn't this also how the Phase Cannons work? Aren't they drawing power directly from the power grid?

 

[valkyrie013]

Maybe reverse it. In that, the early part of the war, its the coalition, or whichever species the Romulans are attacking, that begin the war, something like WW1 and 2 where the US came in last. Earth Wants to help, but except for supplies, medical relief, etc. they can't do much because the Earth fleet is.. well what fleet.

So, say it does get started in say 2156, but Earth, except tangentially, not involved, because space is BIG and alot of the battles are happening 50 or more Light years away, Months even at warp 5. and Earth only having maybe 3 or 4 ships that could actually make the trip. So the first part of the war is up to the more technically advanced species, but even they don't have any type of mega fleet, maybe dozens, while the Romulans have hundreds.

Some time in, Earth has been pumping out cheap ships, so they can field fleets of dozens of ships, and it turns into a battle of attrition, with Earth geared for war, pumping out ships and material, with the coalition helping technological. So akin to WW2 where by the end, it was the US that was putting in the most people and ships, so it ends up being an Earth - Romulan war by the end, and ends up after the war that the Earth is now the "Super Power" like the US was after WW2, and the coalition, after the war losing most of there fleets, join the Federation to protect themselves.

 

[evilchumlee]

In my own version of events, the Coalition powers largely stay out of the majority of the war due to their populations weariness of war. A feeling of "it's not our fight." Similar to America during the first part of both World Wars. Plus, we know the Romulans like to infiltrate their enemies at the political level. It's entirely possible Romulan agents are manipulating things behind the scene on Andoria and Tellar, just as they had on Vulcan.

Prior to ENT, I would have been with this. It feels odd Post-ENT, as we know the Romulans were actively engaging the other powers. It also creates an odd political situation... it seems odd that Earth would be so gung ho about creating the Federation when the Coalition powers just basically abandoned them.

I do think the war should be mostly Earth, but I think rather than a situation of the other Coalition powers just refusing to go to war, there should be more a reason why they couldn't. It's also implied in ENT that Shran had fought with Archer in the war, so there's certainly at least SOME participation.

I just can't put a situation of the Coalition powers sitting back and letting Earth handle the war... and that somehow leading to them forming even closer bonds into The Federation.

I think the WW2 comparison is apt, and I see Earth very much as the Americans... at the very least through an American perspective, we tend to see WW2 as "USA vs. The World". We obviously had allies, other nations were fighting, but we tend to see America as being the juggernaut who was poked into action and then rolled in.

I think the (Earth) Romulan War is a similar example. Other nations were fighting, and they were probably fighting before Earth got involved in any meaningful sense. As the war went on, it would be defined by Earth's participation.

I look at the war, at least the early stages, as being being primarily a defensive war. Similar to England in WWII and the battle of Britain. The Romulans would constantly be sending sorties into the Sol system, pecking away at Earth's defenses until Earth manages to build up its forces enough to take the fight away from the home system.

I think we're somewhat aligned on that, but I have it less directly about Earth specifically. I tend to see damn near the entire war as a defensive war on the part of the Coalition, but sort of in reverse of how you have it. Earth does so well because it's hit the least by the Romulans. Tellar, Andor, and Vulcan are getting pummeled, while Earth is... again with the WW2 comparison, America.

Tellar is Poland... it gets hit early and is essentially the trigger for the larger scale war. I actually have Tellar involved in the war in the late-2140's... they just don't even know who they are fighting. They're trying to expand into an unexplored sector and they keep getting attacked. Being stubborn Tellarites, they don't stop and they're essentially fighting a shadow war against an unknown enemy. It also makes it a slightly gray area of the war... the Tellarite were totally trying to move into and colonize Romulan space. The Romulans communicated their displeasure by just... attacking anything that entered.

Andor is France. It theoretically should have done really well in a war, but they weren't prepared for the Romulans tactics. The Andorians were looking to stand and fight with their mighty fleet, while the Romulans pecked at them with hit and run attacks, eventually leading to Andor essentially falling.

Vulcan is the UK. It's getting beaten up and the Romulans are fairly relentless in wantonly striking into Vulcan territory, but they're hanging on and still able to repel a full scale Romulan assualt.

Earth is far away, and hard to get to. It works both ways at first, because Earth can't really support its allies well in the earlier days of the war. But... once Earth DOES flex its industrial muscle and starts spamming ships capable of getting into battle, it shifts the entire focus of the war.

it was implied in "Fortunate Son" that upgrading the ECS Fortunate from a Warp 1.8 engine to a Warp 3 engine was a relatively simple task. I just figure by the time of the war, Warp 4 engine had become more commonplace.

That's true. I have no issue with this.

I also like this idea. Though I'd keep them close to home. Sort of a "coastal defense" type of ship.

Something like that could work. I see the war effort as something of a "kitchen sink" doctrine... Earth is just trying to throw anything it can at them.

I have this idea of the Romulans having incredible numbers, because they've been spacefaring for several thousand years. It's just that a good amount of their fleet is ancient, they're also throwing everything they have... which could up and to and including ships literally from the exodus from Vulcan.

The NX-01 had one Phase Cannon on board. The other two were said to be made from scratch.

Right, but they had one to build from. At that point it's really just machining the components, although that does speak to them not being overly difficult to build.

I know Lasers were in "The Cage," but that's just one of those things I try to ignore from the early days of Trek. Other series have explicitly said that Lasers were pretty much useless. Plus, I kinda view the plasma cannon as the bottom of the barrel in terms of weapons in Starfleet. They're cheap and simple enough that even the Freighters use them. Hell, farmers use them for home defense. I think Enterprise made it clear enough that Phase Cannons were the next step up.

Oh for sure. Plasma Weapons are cheap and plentiful. Phase Cannons were definitely the "new thing".

Lasers were useless by the 24th century as shield technology had progressed beyond them. Shouldn't be the case for the 22nd century.

Isn't this also how the Phase Cannons work? Aren't they drawing power directly from the power grid?

Yes... but... given they are particle weapons, said particles need to come from... somewhere? They would certainly require some form of stock of material to generate the particles?

Plasma weapons as well, they would require "ammunition" to create the plasma.

A laser is just light. The ships already have reactors, so all you need is energy.

Now granted, much of the point of having laser weaponry IS that its kind of older, less advanced tech. I envision the Daedalus as being kind of a junk ship. It's big draw is that it's cheap and able to be built quickly. They just spam these things out.

Some time in, Earth has been pumping out cheap ships, so they can field fleets of dozens of ships, and it turns into a battle of attrition, with Earth geared for war, pumping out ships and material, with the coalition helping technological. So akin to WW2 where by the end, it was the US that was putting in the most people and ships, so it ends up being an Earth - Romulan war by the end, and ends up after the war that the Earth is now the "Super Power" like the US was after WW2, and the coalition, after the war losing most of there fleets, join the Federation to protect themselves.

This is almost exactly my scenario, although it differs a bit in the post-war. The immense size of Starfleet was actually a hinderance to the formation Federation, as the rest of the powers didn't trust the youngsters of Earth with it.

That's how I justify Starfleet going from Earth Starfleet to Federation Starfleet... when the Federation was being formed, Earth offered to give it up and let the Federation command it directly.

 

[HotRod]

I think the biggest difference between our two trains of thought is that I don't think the Romulans were all that much more powerful than Earth. Which is part of the reason why they were so scared of the Coalition/Federation to begin with.

They could potentially fight any of the single Coalition powers on equal footing, but those powers united, and the Romulans knew they would be beaten. Which is part of the reason why they very specifically targeted Earth, it was the weakest. Plus, they were the ones pushing most for an alliance. Take out Earth, and the Coalition crumbles.

So the Romulans work behind the scenes to keep the Coalition from actually forming, while they target the weakest military link. The Romulans would be smart enough to know that should the 4 major powers actually unite, the war would be over, which is what happened.

 

[evilchumlee]

I think the biggest difference between our two trains of thought is that I don't think the Romulans were all that much more powerful than Earth. Which is part of the reason why they were so scared of the Coalition/Federation to begin with.

I don't think they were really all that powerful either, but I do give them a fairly large fleet, but it's kind of a garbage fleet. The Romulans strength lies in their tactics and general mystery. I have Earth/The Coalition fighting an enemy that they aren't even terrible sure WHERE they are coming from. They have a vague idea of where Romulan space might possibly begin. Meanwhile, the Romulans have extensive intelligence on Coalition powers and know exactly when and where to strike.

While I take cloaks away from them, they're still masters at camouflage and electronic warfare. They're sneaky and absolutely masterful at diversionary tactics. The Romulans have the ability to swoop in essentially undetected, cause a ton of damage, and disappear again.

They definitely are terrified of a united Coalition because they aren't all that strong.

They could potentially fight any of the single Coalition powers on equal footing, but those powers united, and the Romulans knew they would be beaten. Which is part of the reason why they very specifically targeted Earth, it was the weakest. Plus, they were the ones pushing most for an alliance. Take out Earth, and the Coalition crumbles.

So the Romulans work behind the scenes to keep the Coalition from actually forming, while they target the weakest military link. The Romulans would be smart enough to know that should the 4 major powers actually unite, the war would be over, which is what happened.

I just have a hard time reconciling this with ENT. You have an Earth population that is already suspicious of aliens, and the Coalition is already in place by the time the war starts. I just can't seem to justify a course of events that leads to Earth fighting a massive, interstellar war by itself while their "allies" sit it out... and then later on they all merge into a Federation. Not to mention that Earth is fighting against an enemy who has already attacked everyone else...

I feel like the other Coalition powers not joining the war is like, the Confederation Earth timeline.

The only thing I can see is perhaps massive Romulan interference, pulling strings of those other powers from within and causing domestic issues making them unable to assist... but the Romulans were already ousted from Vulcan before the war.

 

[HotRod]

I just have a hard time reconciling this with ENT. You have an Earth population that is already suspicious of aliens, and the Coalition is already in place by the time the war starts. I just can't seem to justify a course of events that leads to Earth fighting a massive, interstellar war by itself while their "allies" sit it out... and then later on they all merge into a Federation. Not to mention that Earth is fighting against an enemy who has already attacked everyone else...

But the Coalition wasn't in place yet. It was being discussed, but nothing formal had been signed.

You do also need to remember that the other races were just cooling down from decades of what was basically a cold war between them. There would certainly be those in power who would want to attempt to stay out of the affairs of other races.

An isolation movement could have sprung up on Tellar while the Andorians have elected a new pacifist government. Meanwhile, the entire Vulcan government was in a state of rebuilding.

There would be no better time for the Romulans to manipulate things from the shadows on the political level. Leaving Earth to stand alone.

Now of course, something eventually happens that reignites the dreams of an alliance. Some Romulan Admiral goes rogue and attacks a Tellerite civilian ship or something. Perhaps the Romulan subterfuge is discovered. It could be anything.

But eventually, the Coalition is formed, the Romulans face a humiliating defeat at the Battle of Charon, The Neutral Zone is established, and in an effort to never allow this sort of thing to happen again, is eventually made permanent in the form of The United Federation of Planets.

 

[Rahul]

In my headcanon the Romulans are actually vastly superior to Earth Forces - similar to Andorians & Vulcans - but not 100% commited.
They're "fine" with the war as long as it's far from home, using drones, spies, stuff like this.
That's IMO the only logical explanation for a "war" that ends in a somewhat balanced treaty without a single, ever captured enemy soldier.
That's also my explanation why the Andorians & Vulcans stay out of it - together they might be stronger than Romulus, but they don't want to "waste" their fleets as they don't trust each other, and open war world weaken them both - however both can support Earth with material, logistics, intel - which makes them "good" allies during & afterwards.

It's really only for Earth, that the Earth-Romulan war is absolutely, life-or-death survival - the newcomer on the galactic block accidentally triggering the bear, and needing to prove it's absolutely has the gut & capability to survive. Not winning, but "I can do this all day". And proving itself as a major power purely due to surviving & the force build up for the war.

 

[evilchumlee]

But the Coalition wasn't in place yet. It was being discussed, but nothing formal had been signed.

You do also need to remember that the other races were just cooling down from decades of what was basically a cold war between them. There would certainly be those in power who would want to attempt to stay out of the affairs of other races.

Right, but it still just feels so against what ENT was doing to everyone else just sit back while Earth deals with this war.

I thought it had always been implied that the war was what really brought together the Federation. Sure, you could have everyone join in at the end, but that seems like a weak reason for everyone to decide it's time for the Federation. Having them all experienced the shared trauma of the war? I can see that... coupled with the fact that you brought up about several of them coming off of a cold war...

I would say it's likely, almost damn near canon confirmed, that the Romulans were pulling strings to pit the Vulcans and Andorians against each other. I like to think that both of their state of affairs are not as good as they would have Earth believe... nor is the war as cold as Earth thinks it was. I think both of them were already hurting pretty bad due to the centuries of war between them. The Vulcans and Andorians had some flashy tech, but in the end their actual military might was tenuous at best.

It somewhat blends the best of both outlooks. The conflict *IS* primarily Earth vs. the Romulans, it's not solely a conflict of Earth vs. Romulus with everyone else sitting on the sidelines voluntarily. The Romulans chose that time to strike partly because they had weakened some of the others powers enough, but also because their ruse was up and everyone was only going to get stronger.

They figured they were in good shape... sneak attack Tellar and take it out of the picture immediately. We can also invent whatever we want for them... for some reason I like to think the Tellarites didn't have much in the way of a formal military. Any order given would be argued extensively before being followed... I think the Tellarites presence in space was largely civilian in nature, so the Romulans popping in, orbitally devastating Tellar and mopping up their excuse for a fleet puts them down for the count.

Vulcan and Andor are already in rough shape from fighting each other, but they have more than Earth does at the onset of the war, so what they DO have gets ravaged early on.

By the time Earth can commit any relevant forces.... yeah, it's Earth vs. the Romulans now. I feel like it fits the spirit of what was happening if everyone is involved, but it's ultimately up to Earth to actually fight the brunt of the war. By the time Earth is fighting in earnest, you'll end up with only a handful of alien assets tagging along with the Earth fleets.

I take Charon as being a "humiliating defeat" in a few different ways here. It was humiliating to get beaten by Earth of anyone. But it also dealt a massive blow to Romulans perceived supremacy... they may have had the largest fleet, and they truly thought they would be able to win a war against 4 other powers. Thirdly, it also highlighted a fatal flaw of Romulan infrastrure... I envision Charon as the Romulans primary industrial hub. They quite literally put all of their eggs in one basket. If Earth took Charon, the Romulans were DONE.

And so, the Romulans had to put their tails between their legs and offer peace negotiations. They just simply couldn't afford to lose that world. Earth/The Coalition were fine with the terms... they didn't actually sacrifice anything and the war really just resulted in... drawing formal borders. If anything, Earth "won" because now they were aware of the extent of Romulan space... in this version here, nobody even knew where it was.

So the Romulans lost a metric ton of political capital*, were beyond embarrassed, and lost a major strategic asset in the mystery of their space. Earth... just agreed to a border. Nothing was lost.

*I like to think the defeat and Charon caused a change in power in the Senate, and the peace treaty was the result of the new government. The new Romulan Praetor was ready to suck it, take the loss, and being building up forces again.

 

[HotRod]

I do have to say that I find this a very fascinating discussion.

 

[Lord Hierarch]

I gotta agree, in my headcanon the Romulans were an ascendant power. The green UE, they had no contemporary rivals like the Vulcans or Andorians, or nearby enemies like the Klingons. They had room to grow and advance until the ERW when they suffered such catastrophic losses/humiliation it threw their entire military-culture into an upheveal.

I love what the novels did with the Daedalus, an old ship that they refitted with NX tech.



Speaking of, when is the term Earth Romulan War used?

 

[evilchumlee]

Speaking of, when is the term Earth Romulan War used?

I believe it's from novels/background material. IIRC, TOS actually referred to it as the Romulan Conflict.

ENT "In a Mirror, Darkly" references the "Romulan Wars" (plural).

I kind of like those two things, and it works into my general idea well... you could call it the "Earth-Romulan War", because the later stages are largely exactly that. You could call it "The Romulan War", sort of as a catch-all. "The Romulan Wars" plural makes some sense in my version, as Tellar was already fighting a war with the Romulans prior to the start of ENT. "Romulan Conflict" is a generic enough term for it as well.

I have to check out the Romulan War novels. I never paid them any mind, but I have a renewed interest.

I do like the idea of the Romulans being a relative superpower to everyone else, in some ways anyway. I like to riff on their use of drones in ENT to make them have an absolutely enormous fleet... WAY larger than their population should even allow, but it's due to their extensive use of automation/drones. It's part of their misdirection. They puff themselves up and show up with an absolutely gargantuan fleet... but when it actually comes down to it, the ships aren't super effective, the more drones fielded, the less processing power they have to work independently, and many of the ships are old garbage.

I like to try to reconcile as much old canon as possible. I use the "simple impulse power" from TOS to not say that the Romulans didn't have warp. They obviously did. Spock is literally talking about their power generation, they aren't using matter/anti-matter reactors... nor are they using quantum singularities yet. The Romulans are using fusion reactors to drive their warp drive... which works but it's horribly inefficient and leads to them having generally slow ships that put out just massive amounts of power just to get the thing going.

It's partly why their defeat was so humiliating, it sort of called their bluff a bit. The Romulans appeared to be an almost existential threat to anyone else. But it was mostly appearances. The war shattered the perception of the Romulans being an untouchable power.

 

[HotRod]

Speaking of, when is the term Earth Romulan War used?

Without checking, I'd say it's probably mentioned in Balance of Terror.

 

[Lord Hierarch]

Without checking, I'd say it's probably mentioned in Balance of Terror.

They say Earth outpost, earth war, earth vessel, earth ship, commander, spock says your war....

Ohps, here we go:

"SPOCK: Referring to the map on your screens, you will note beyond the moving position of our vessel, a line of Earth outpost stations. Constructed on asteroids, they monitor the Neutral Zone established by treaty after the Earth-Romulan conflict a century ago."

Which basically has Earth doing all the heavy lifting and the rest of the races doing diddly squat as far as existing.

A relatively easy thing to retcon, if the showrunners cared to, from Earth to Coaltiion.

It'd make things a whole lot easier given how many powerhouses the Alpha Quadrant had instead of TOS seesawying between Earth Command and Multi-species Command.

 

[Rahul]

They say Earth outpost, earth war, earth vessel, earth ship, commander, spock says your war....

Ohps, here we go:

"SPOCK: Referring to the map on your screens, you will note beyond the moving position of our vessel, a line of Earth outpost stations. Constructed on asteroids, they monitor the Neutral Zone established by treaty after the Earth-Romulan conflict a century ago."

Which basically has Earth doing all the heavy lifting and the rest of the races doing diddly squat as far as existing.

A relatively easy thing to retcon, if the showrunners cared to, from Earth to Coaltiion.

I mean, the real life reason is if course that TOS in early season 1 really was a Earth ship, with Spock the sole alien on board. The Federation wasn't invented until later.

However at those point, I think "Earth-Romulan" war is so well established, I'm against a retcon. And - again - the whole "big war ending with a peace treaty without ever seeing the aliens" gives it really an interesting mystery. Changing all that retrospective IMO takes more away that it gives.

 

[Lord Hierarch]

The whole not seeing alien thing I can buy. Romulans don't land troops, they just bomb the planets/starbase/ships, then move on. Keep themselves a secret to keep their allies in the High Command in power till the Vulcans outst them or the Romulan victory see's the Romulan spies failing to stay in office.

I'd back a soft retcon from Earth to Coalition, but I do like the idea that the ERW has its name cause everyone blames Earth for first contact (Minefield) and bringing their attention to the local quadrant.

Like, "we know you didn't start it, but you kind did start it, even they did start starting this." XD XD XD.

 

[Shawnster]

The French and Indian War (1754–1763) was a theater of the Seven Years' War, which pitted the North American colonies of the British Empire against those of the French, each side being supported by various Native American tribes. At the start of the war, the French colonies had a population of roughly 60,000 settlers, compared with 2 million in the British colonies.[4] The outnumbered French particularly depended on their native allies.[5]

Perhaps, like the above, the Earth-Romulan War is known by another name in other civilizations? Perhaps it was a theater of a much larger war?

Nah, doesn't make sense with the sanctions Earth was able to establish against the Romulans. Or does it?

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

when the Federation was being formed, Earth offered to give it up and let the Federation command it directly.

United Earth did not cease to exist when the Federation was formed. Earth continued to exist as a separate member world, with its own government, laws, capital city, Federation Council rep, etc.

Earth is not, thank the Lord, an interstellar Washington, DC. Such nonsense has long since been obsolete by Trek’s time.

And in case anyone feels like bringing up Homefront/Paradise Lost: I would remind y’all that 1) As the Federation President, Jaresh-Inyo is well within his rights to declare Martial Law on ANY Federation member world; 2) There was going to be a scene where he “ federalizes” local Earth forces - also his right - but that got cut for time.