Spoilers Star Trek: Discovery 5x10 - "Life, Itself"

[Kaelef]

I thought it was a pretty good ending given what the writers have given us in this show. It had the usual problems with pacing and trying to force us to feel things without properly building them up, but there was a sincerity to it that I appreciated.

Not ending up with some amazing new wiz-bang technology was the only reasonable way to go. I mean, in a world where ships can jump any distance instantly (at least when the story desires it) and matter and energy are handled as interchangeable, it's hard to imagine what the Progenitors could provide that would really change things significantly.

I liked the twist that these progenitors weren't there first, either, but I agree that the way they were originally conceived (as simply seeding worlds to populate the galaxy) made them both more interesting and relatable.

We still had the crazy pauses for discussions in the middle of high action scenes. Moll was woefully underdeveloped as a character and immediately dropped the "I'll do absolutely anything to bring my love back to life, damn the consequences" when the story was done needing an antagonist. Did I miss an explanation for why she attacked the other Breen that went through the portal? Last I remember they were all on the same side.

But, oh well - it wouldn't be Discovery without these things and an absolutely egregious amount of camera shake and rolls and Wizard of Oz-style puffs of fire on the bridge ("Nobody gets in to see the wizard - not nobody not nohow!").

The effects and costumes (especially at the wedding) were top-notch. Aging of Sonequa was surprisingly good - some of the best I've seen. Can't say they didn't spend money on this show.

 

[Firebird]

We've no one to blame but ourselves. We gave them a checklist

• Who is Kovich
• What's up with Calypso
• Why does the DISCO look like it did in Season One

Damn them for listening!!!!!!!!

 

[eschaton]

I can't say that Burnham's choice to chuck "the tech" into a black hole works well thematically with Star Trek, which is fundamentally a hopeful, optimistic take on humanity. That said, it's 100% in line with how technology has been shown in past Star Trek series—even earlier in Discovery.

Wiz-bang technological advances, from the Genesis Device to the Spore Drive, are treated not as inevitable advances that someone among the thousands of sentient lifeforms across the galaxy will inevitably develop. They're treated as something that will be invented once, and only once, at a story-critical point. If we choose to chuck it into a black hole, we never need to worry about our enemies developing it or some advanced alien with a million-year start to have it. It's just something that exists once at a story-critical moment, and then it's gone forever. So yeah, Stamets is literally the only person in the entire multiverse to ever use the Spore Drive.

It's not a realistic way to world-build at all, but it's an integral part of the Star Trek setting, so I don't really mind it much.

 

[FreezeC77]

I thought it was a pretty good ending given what the writers have given us in this show. It had the usual problems with pacing and trying to force us to feel things without properly building them up, but there was a sincerity to it that I appreciated.

Not ending up with some amazing new wiz-bang technology was the only reasonable way to go. I mean, in a world where ships can jump any distance instantly (at least when the story desires it) and matter and energy are handled as interchangeable, it's hard to imagine what the Progenitors could provide that would really change things significantly.

I liked the twist that these progenitors weren't there first, either, but I agree that the way they were originally conceived (as simply seeding worlds to populate the galaxy) made them both more interesting and relatable.

We still had the crazy pauses for discussions in the middle of high action scenes. Moll was woefully underdeveloped as a character and immediately dropped the "I'll do absolutely anything to bring my love back to life, damn the consequences" when the story was done needing an antagonist. Did I miss an explanation for why she attacked the other Breen that went through the portal? Last I remember they were all on the same side.

But, oh well - it wouldn't be Discovery without these things and an absolutely egregious amount of camera shake and rolls and Wizard of Oz-style puffs of fire on the bridge ("Nobody gets in to see the wizard - not nobody not nohow!").

The effects and costumes (especially at the wedding) were top-notch. Aging of Sonequa was surprisingly good - some of the best I've seen. Can't say they didn't spend money on this show.

I knew I forgot to say something. When watching it all I could think of was like a rock band on stage and having the 'flames' spray up from the edge of the stage. That's pretty much what it looked like was happening in Discovery (and in some parts of the inside of the device)

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

The Breen won't magically loose the scans they took of the portal just because Starfleet yells "Red Directive" really loud.

Nor will Mol forget everything she saw.

Good luck finding another "Extra Dimensional" Portal to that place, it looked pretty advanced and not easy to replicate.

Mol can see & record plenty of things, doesn't matter if she can't get back to that place.

 

[DaddlerTheDalek]

Well. Well. That was Star Trek: Discovery. It's been a long road.

 

[Lucky]

It gets an 8/10 for me. I think the writers did the best they could concluding the show after it had been cancelled. If they knew this was the final season going in, I'm sure it would have a higher rating. It was a very satisfying finale though, and I am going to miss Michael Burnham.

 

[StarTrek1701]

ENT's finale is still the worst in the franchise by a mile.

Not anymore. Yes its horrendous but DSC's one in neck and neck to it.
Similar to BOTH of Dexter's finales

 

[Lord Garth]

To be crystal clear, Discovery's finale wasn't my favorite finale, but...

Not anymore. Yes its horrendous but DSC's one in neck and neck to it.
Similar to BOTH of Dexter's finales

No, you just didn't like it.

 

[Lord Garth]

Speaking of ENT, Kovich being revealed to be Daniels... actually makes me want to go back and watch some episodes of ENT. Something I never thought I'd ever say. Specifically the Temporal Cold War episodes, or at least any episodes with Daniels in them, seeing them in this new context. Also something I never thought I'd say.

 

[Hawku]

That black hole better come to life now. It's all I'm saying.

 

[Slugboy]

By the way, why does Burnham suddenly attack Moll when they had just established a truce and then asks her to trust her again?!

Even though they had established a truce, Moll was still carrying her weapon and may very well have shot Burnham once they figured out the final puzzles (since Burnham's knowledge of said puzzles was the only reason Moll was willing to keep a truce). Burnham attacked her to finally disarm her.

 

[Oz Trekkie]

Sad to see Discovery finish but it was great last season and fitting finale to the series. #LLAP #IDIC

 

[Fateor]

I can't say that Burnham's choice to chuck "the tech" into a black hole works well thematically with Star Trek, which is fundamentally a hopeful, optimistic take on humanity. That said, it's 100% in line with how technology has been shown in past Star Trek series—even earlier in Discovery.

Wiz-bang technological advances, from the Genesis Device to the Spore Drive, are treated not as inevitable advances that someone among the thousands of sentient lifeforms across the galaxy will inevitably develop. They're treated as something that will be invented once, and only once, at a story-critical point. If we choose to chuck it into a black hole, we never need to worry about our enemies developing it or some advanced alien with a million-year start to have it. It's just something that exists once at a story-critical moment, and then it's gone forever. So yeah, Stamets is literally the only person in the entire multiverse to ever use the Spore Drive.

It's not a realistic way to world-build at all, but it's an integral part of the Star Trek setting, so I don't really mind it much.

Additional Genesis Devices showed up in both Lower Decks and Picard.

And the base protomatter technology behind it was used by the Federation to re-ignite a sun in Deep Space Nine.

 

[cooleddie74]

Professor Gideon Seyetik. Yep.

 

[Farscape One]

I knew I forgot to say something. When watching it all I could think of was like a rock band on stage and having the 'flames' spray up from the edge of the stage. That's pretty much what it looked like was happening in Discovery (and in some parts of the inside of the device)

Funny you say that, because I just told my wife about the flamethrowers on the bridge being like a rock concert.

We are actually about to rewatch "THESE ARE THE VOYAGES...". By coincidence, our rewatch of ENT ends the same night DISCO ends for good.

 

[Farscape One]

What's interesting to me is that by kind of retconning the Ancient Humanoids/Progenitors for this season, they both made them more powerful but also robbed their depiction in TNG's "The Chase" of some of its poignancy.

In their original depiction, the Progenitors just seeded planets. They're not implied to wield some amazing tech, and the episode has all of the non-Federation powers disappointed that their hopes of finding a great weapon is basically proven wrong. Beyond that, there's an empathy in Salome Jens's character when she says they explored space and "found no one else like themselves," asserting that they've seeded worlds in hopes of spreading life and hoping that the result will find the comfort in each other that they never had. And even "The Chase" gives a hint of hope that might happen, when the Romulan Commander muses with Picard about what it all means.

It's a hopeful message overall. That's totally turned on its head here, where it becomes this dangerous tech that's hyped up all season, would be an amazing scientific discovery, and in the end that legacy is basically thrown away.

It's baffling to me that they would want to revisit the Temporal Cold War.

It didn't work in its original form. It was a mess of a storyline that Enterprise could never make sense of. And the only reason they have to do the connection here is to give substance to the fetch quests as being connected to the machinations of Daniels.

Why Kovich just couldn't be Kovich and, I don't know, make Kovich an interesting character in his own right that had no connection to anything before, is beyond me. He's literally almost a blank slate you can do anything with and instead you do a memberberry to a character and storyline that was convoluted.

SISKO: That may be the most important thing to understand about humans. It is the unknown that defines our existence. We are constantly searching, not just for answers to our questions, but for new questions. We are explorers. We explore our lives day by day, and we explore the galaxy, trying to expand the boundaries of our knowledge. And that is why I am here. Not to conquer you with weapons, or with ideas. But to coexist... and learn.
​

The entire "knowledge is too dangerous" plot device is just a really tired Garden of Eden/Pandora's Box trope that seeks comfort in ignorance and that I think writers use when they don't want to actually deal with the consequences and realities of the story. And, instead, decide to chuck the MacGuffin into a black hole because actually dealing with it in an intelligent way is too hard.

One of the reasons I love "The Chase" is because of its message of everyone being connected in some way. Especially great was how the Romulan, on his own, said they all weren't that different from each other. Definitely one of the core philosophies of the franchise, exemplified by that episode.

And while DISCO tried to keep that message intact, I think they inadvertantly undercut the very episode they based the season on.

 

[Fateor]

One of the reasons I love "The Chase" is because of its message of everyone being connected in some way. Especially great was how the Romulan, on his own, said they all weren't that different from each other. Definitely one of the core philosophies of the franchise, exemplified by that episode.

And while DISCO tried to keep that message intact, I think they inadvertantly undercut the very episode they based the season on.

Maybe?

But the truth is we don't know how much of what Burnham experienced inside the portal was "real". So whether they did or didn't undercut The Chase's message is still up in the air.

 

[TimeIsAPredator]

How did Burnham know that Kovich was a code name ?

 

[Tiberius Jim]

That's what Trek needs! More Nazi killing!
Kill them all and let someone else sort it out. That's the Star Trek way.

Totally missed my point and took me too literally. Never said they needed to kill Nazis. The Nazis getting killed was something dramatic that happened involving the arc. That's what this episode lacked, something dramatic happening involving the technology. But instead they said "Ya know what, on second thought....you keep it." and called it a day. Yaaawn.