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Spoilers Star Trek: Discovery 5x10 - "Life, Itself"

Rate the series finale...


  • Total voters
    168
The best episode of the last 2 seasons. It really pissed me off that godmode technology is unlocked by... doing the kind of triangle puzzle riddle you find in Facebook Mum groups.

The Progenitors FOUND the technology, they were hunting ancient aliens too. Laughed out loud, loved it.

Kovich is Old Daniels. I liked that a lot, and was thankfully totally unspoiled.

The flashforward felt like a Short Trek tacked on, but it was nice to see how it all turned out. Weird that they set up Calypso, knew about Craft and had to undo Discovery's upgrades but couldn't explain why any of it had to happen except "red directive" which in this instance means "because continuity"

Interesting ending.
 
Daniels in "Cold Front(ENT)" said he was "mostlly" human. In DSC we find out he's led multiple lives. It makes me wonder what sort of human-alien hybrid he's been all this time. I know some fans are groaning about the Kovich-is-Daniels reveal but honestly, it's inspired and never leaked before the episode dropped.

Not bad.
 
Better than the Seasons 1 through 3 finales but, for me, still less impressive than the Species 10-C showdown and reveal from Season 4.

I would agree with that. S4 was the best of Discovery.

S1-3 the finales were terrible, 3 taking the absolutely abysmal cake.

S4 was actually... pretty good.

S5 was just... fine. It was fine. It didn't do some horrible botch job like S3, it was just very predictable and despite being like, what should be the most important thing to have ever happened ever it was so... anti-climactic.

Weird that they set up Calypso, knew about Craft and had to undo Discovery's upgrades but couldn't explain why any of it had to happen except "red directive" which in this instance means "because continuity"

Which was ever weirder because even the continuity police like myself seemed have largely just written Calypso off and were kind of ok with it. Like... whatever it was from an early Short Trek, the idea ended up going nowhere, we could safely just ignore it.

I'm not mad about it. I actually think it was kind of cool that they DIDN'T just ignore it. It's just... odd.

Daniels in "Cold Front(ENT)" said he was "mostlly" human. In DSC we find out he's led multiple lives. It makes me wonder what sort of human-alien hybrid he's been all this time.

I have a feeling it's more to do with timey wimey things, similar to Annorax and his crew. He may well have some sort personal, embedded, who knows temporal shielding.
 
The fact that Academy exists means the events and the characters will be canon though.

Yes, unless its later determined that when Disco went through the wormhole at the end of S2, it actually went into an alternate future, and not the prime timeline future.
That's still a 'way out' for them to push the events and characters and make them part of the prime timeline and also, not... so it IS canon, and it will still happen (so its canon), but the Prime Timeline future is left as unknown.

This of course only happens if any upcoming series decides to go that way... or they could completely wipe the slate clean.
The thing with time travel is that you can experience a whole timeline and it can easily get erased or 'modified' if necessary at any given time.

I thought the conclusion of the Progenitor tech fell short of what it could have been. It just seemed like it was made a central theme and then it was just pushed away.
The trope 'no one should have this kind of power' is kind of outdated. Any technology has the potential for misuse. As previous shows acknowledged, the UFP demonstrated time and again it has the ability to handle new technologies responsibly (for the most part).
Risk is part of the equation... I mean, even the UFP technically invented so many breakthroughs that aren't being used for the sole reason because I suspect the writers wouldn't know which direction to go to once they reach that point - hence the continuous portrayal of 'things somehow remain the same' even if its 800 or 930 years later (which is also boring)... I mean, pushing the boundaries would have forced more creativity out of the writers, but it seems the Disco writers just don't appear to be up to the challenge of creating massively more advanced technological setting and then writing stories around that.

I did like Kovich big reveal in being Daniels (which does make sense - and its likely the 'white space' he uses is probably outside of space-time which also stops him from ageing when he's there - so he's probably got a way to live drastically longer because of that through the ages - couple that with more advanced UFP medical tech and Baku planet, I mean the guy could easily live indefinitely like that).
If we assume he's outside of space-time for 8hrs every day, that alone would increase his lifespan from 120 to 180, or from roughly around 150 (with TNG era medical tech) to 225 years (not counting going to Baku planet). Since the Burn happened 122 year prior to the end of Disco Season 5 (the exact year would be 3069 if we deduce 120 backwards from 3189 [the end of S3 being when we learned the Burn happened 120 years ago]) , and the Temporal Wars ended in 3060 (if I'm not mistaken), and Daniels was described to be in his early 30-ies on ENT... so, lets assume he's 40 years old by the time the Burn happens, add another 122 years to that to reach end of S5 of Disco, and he's roughly about 162 years old in the finale (with another 63 years to spare - roughly - that's assuming using the TNG era UFP medical tech which allowed Humans to live up to 150 - and of course taking into account his 8 hrs a day of not ageing if he's been outside space time while he sleeps).

For someone who still has 63 years to go... I think he looks more or less correct (he could always go to the Baku planet for 10 years to allow the planet to restore him to his prime peak self and just continue like that - I'm surprised MORE people don't do this or that UFP hadn't developed the means for technological cellular regeneration which would take 30 years off a person every time they use it - aka, just repeat the process every time a human hits 60 years old, and they're back to being 30 years old... you can do that indefinitely).

At any rate, I also liked how they tied the ending to Calypso, but now we are left with a few questions:
1. Is the reason Disco being retrofitted back to its original 23rd century configuration because its going to be sent into the PAST and then have to wait for 1000 years to get back to the 'present'? - this one defeats the purpose of the ship going into the future (but then again, when Georgiou killed Leland/Control, that became unnecessary in the first place) - but if it was going to be sent back, then converting it to 23rd century look makes sense - otherwise if someone were to stumble upon a 32nd century tech, it would cause... issues.
Plus the term V'Draysh would make sense since by the time we see Calypso, nearly 1000 years have passed and Craft seemed as if the term was more or less... new? Perhaps this is the time prior to the events of Disco S3 and beyond (could easily be 20 years before Disco arrives).

2. Is Disco just going to wait at the given location for the next 1000 years from the 32nd century, meaning that the conclusion of the mission won't occur until the 42nd century? - this seems possible as the term V'Draysh and all is more current, but Disco's retrofit to its 23rd century look makes less sense in that case. I mean, for that matter, 32nd century is still the time frame in which the Federation refers to itself as Federation, V'draysh was a term adopted by people outside UFP space after the Burn - so the idea the UFP becomes imperialistic seems a bit... meh. I mean, we already had the Burn rip it apart... do we really need it to become an empire and go through the process of getting the UFP 'back to its roots' yet again (which was kind of already done in S3).

Burnham got a happy ending, which was good, but we didn't really get any proper send-offs for the rest of the crew - this was Disco's another weak point (limited to no use of other characters and their development).

It wasn't bad, but I guess it just didn't really deliver on things it could have delivered.
 
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I don't really know what to think about this one. As a season finale, this episode was stellar (and my final score reflects that too - Michael's experiences inside the portal were top notch science fiction while the plotline aboard Discovery was once again a thrilling, albeit - as expected - quite formula ride), but its conversion into a series finale felt a bit lopsided and tacked-on for me. There were a few beautiful moments in the coda, old Michael and Book's rural family life felt really natural and I could readily accept this as a happy ending for them, complete with their son Leto Atreides getting his first captaincy and receiving some warm motherly advice from a much wiser Michael. But ultimately, the decision to fold it all into Calypso at the end left a really bad taste in my mouth, as the past few seasons have apparently built up Zora as a sentient being who had even been established to have emotions, and this was the only thing I could think about as Michael briefed her on her top secret last mission. I could only see this order as absolutely cruel and cold-hearted, sending what is practically a person into an indefinite solitary exile on what was implied to be Kovich's orders (as I presume a temporal agent would know about Craft finding Discovery in the future). At least we could've had some dialogue to establish she handles isolation, loneliness and long waits differently than biological lifeforms do. I've said this in jest a few years back when joking about Calypso, but now it seems I'll have to say it in earnest: I've never thought I'd ever want to hug a starship before.

Saru and T'Rina's gorgeous wedding, which might have been the original intended ending, summed up the episode's message nicely. I loved how Michael ended up reaffirming the original message of The Chase, with openly declaring that the true legacy of the Progenitors is not technology or knowledge, but the infinite varieties of life they have created. One might argue that the reveal of the Progenitors merely finding the technology cheapens them, but I found it really poignant, especially with the Progenitor describing it as a cycle of creators and creations, in a beautiful "circle of life" way.

Speaking of Saru, his daring diplomacy in getting Tahal to stand down was an absolute delight to watch, and he's truly standing with the greatest now, I think even Kira Nerys herself would admire his guts. Tilly and Rayner kept playing surprisingly well off each other, and I especially loved how he deftly circumvented her lingering doubts about herself when he curtly told her not to call her suggestion crazy, just say it. Book and Hugh were another great pair in this closing act, albeit I feel like we could've heard more about what exactly is going on with the latter. Maybe they planned a future character arc with Jinaal tagging along in his mind in some way before the series was canceled? It definitely felt like some part of the old man decided to stay with him.

All in all, I'm sad that this series is over, even though I'm glad I was along for the ride and have a lot of happy memories of it. I won't bloat this post up with a retrospect on the series as a whole, so I'll only say I'm disappointed that catharsis stubbornly avoided me at the end. Given how it was hurriedly expanded into a series finale, I wasn't expecting What We Leave Behind or Babylon 5's Sleeping in Light, but I still feel it could've been executed better. Seeing Michael's happy memories of her crew did make my eyes misty, but as it was tied into Zora being exiled, it just didn't have the same emotional impact for me it could've. And well, another thing that bugs me, the reveal of Kovich's identity, which just felt completely unnecessary for me, especially as an extremely deep-cut legacy character who, up until now, has been almost exclusively mentioned in memes and jokes about how he could appear. I didn't find it to be insulting, unlike the "valentine to the fans" of the series he originally appeared in, but it really came off as a ham-fisted and ultimately failed attempt at establishing Discovery as a sort-of finale of the franchise as a whole, especially with the camera lingering on all the memorabilia from past series in his office that we've never seen him have before.
 
I have a feeling it's more to do with timey wimey things, similar to Annorax and his crew. He may well have some sort personal, embedded, who knows temporal shielding.
It could be that he has experienced multiple timelines where he has different mothers or fathers, or was born earlier or later depending on the specific temporal incursion. He simply has the capacity to retain the knowledge of his alternates selves or faces.
 
It could be that he has experienced multiple timelines where he has different mothers or fathers, or was born earlier or later depending on the specific temporal incursion. He simply has the capacity to retain the knowledge of his alternates selves or faces.
A lot of people are going to find what I say next controversial (but it's just my headcanon and I don't insist that anyone else adapt it), but I'm thinking Trek is already along this route specifically with Robert April. You don't just change a worldspanning Eugenics Wars by 40 years and expect that everyone in both timelines, even if they somehow still exist, will be exactly genetically the same. My headcanon is that TAS April was in the 1990s Eugenics War timeline and that SNW April is in the 2030s Eugenics War timeline, and thus they are genetically different but for storyline purposes the same, not unlike Kelvin Chekov (born 2241) and Prime Chekov (born 2245), except April likely had an ancestor outright changed.
 
. The extra layer to the Progenitors is neat. I do enjoy epic timescale sci-fi mysteries. I also couldn't help but think to tie in the idea of Pre-Progenitors with the PIC Synth Reaper Aliens... there have apparently been "cycles", and we know that those Reaper Aliens come around to kill of organic life every so often... perhaps the Pre-Progenitor tech was partially a Commander Sheppard Failsafe in case they did manage to wipe out everyone. Also curious about a potential Q connection....

“All of this has happened before, Michael, and all of this will happen again.”
 
Porthos was better at sniffing out Silik than Daniels was. I hoped that dog's bowl would be among Kovich's collectibles.
 
Archer: So Daniels, why did you choose my particular timeframe to do your fieldwork?

Daniels: I've been fascinated with the Mirror universe since I was a teen, especially Empress Hoshi Sato. This job was the closest I could get to meeting her, or at least her counterpart.

Archer: Suddenly I'm really sorry I asked that question.
 
I'm replying to multiple posts about early character deaths here.

We had a series in the UK called Spooks (known as MI-5 in parts of North America) which ran from 2002 to 2011. It featured one of the earliest examples of a character that appeared to be being established as a regular, but was killed off in a shocking way in the second episode.

The actress who was cast was a well known household name, Lisa Faulkner, who had been in a very high profile soap and a primetime hospital drama series, so everyone expected her to last the duration.

I remember at the time it was all people talked about that week... and I can't help wondering if it inspired the very similar fate of Ellen Landry in what was effectively Disco's (and her) second episode (if you treat The Vulcan Hello as a prologue). Rekha Sharma was well known for her role in V and so her demise was quite a shock and was also well kept as a secret.
 
And well, another thing that bugs me, the reveal of Kovich's identity, which just felt completely unnecessary for me, especially as an extremely deep-cut legacy character who, up until now, has been almost exclusively
We've no one to blame but ourselves. We gave them a checklist
  • Who is Kovich
  • What's up with Calypso
  • Why does the DISCO look like it did in Season One
Damn them for listening!!!!!!!! ;)
 
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