Spoilers Star Trek: Discovery 5x10 - "Life, Itself"

[Citiprime]

Imagine if Turnabout Intruder ended with Admiral Kirk happily married to Janice Rand, with a kid, sending the Enterprise off on some bizarre mission where it needs to wait in space for 1,000 years. We'd start running into problems as soon as Star Trek 2 (or even TMP).

My gut feeling is that Discovery (and "Calypso") will be retconned out of existence if it comes down to it for any future installment if this ending gets in the way.

That any future post-Kurtzman regime that might want to go in a different direction will "reinterpret" the material in the same way that Goldsman and company have done to the original IP.

 

[SG-17]

A new little tease for the future in the proto-progenitors and I'm glad I was right that Kovich was more that he seemed, Daniels lives!

 

[Romulan_spy]

I am, however, still quite confused as to what "the tech" is. The way it's described, it's just a big biological lab and cloning chamber? That...doesn't sound like the most profoundly new, awe-inspiring thing in the galaxy. It's something within the Federation's power now, only on a more massive scope. Even clone army means little without things like ships and weapons. Honestly, this whole element of the show was super underbaked - as if the writers' room thought it would be a good idea to have a magic tech, but it never quite gelled what it was supposed to be, even by the end.

I think the scope is part of what makes the tech impressive. You had all those "windows" to different planets that seem to go on forever. So you could create life on a massive scale, seeding it on millions of worlds almost instantly. That is not something the Federation can do, certainly not in a small timeframe.

We also don't really know the full capabilities of the tech. Is it like a replicator that can create almost anything out of "thin air"? Can it design or change DNA? Is it like the infinity gauntlet in Marvel where you just snap your finger and anything you think becomes reality? I will grant you that perhaps the show did not do a good enough job of really fleshing out how the tech works.

 

[cooleddie74]

The portals reminded me of Iconian gateways.

 

[The Nth Doctor]

The portals reminded me of Iconian gateways.

For the briefest of moments, I considered the idea that the Iconians are the Progenitors but decided that was too connective. Better to keep them separate and accept the idea that different civilizations can have amazing technology developed on their own.

 

[Yistaan]

We also don't really know the full capabilities of the tech. Is it like a replicator that can create almost anything out of "thin air"? Can it design or change DNA? Is it like the infinity gauntlet in Marvel where you just snap your finger and anything you think becomes reality? I will grant you that perhaps the show did not do a good enough job of really fleshing out how the tech works.

And they had hamfisted limitations thrown in purely for plot drama. We had L'ak's body preserved (same as Kelvin Kirk). This is a universe with katras (resurrected Spock) and transporter clones (Tom Riker has identical memories) and synth bodies (Picard).

Seriously, all the progenitor tech probably needs to do is scan L'ak, scan the Breen ship for the transporter record of the last time he beamed on, then reanimate L'ak and reintegrate those scans of his memories into the new body. We've seen Trek do that with tech far less advanced than the progenitors' is said to be (albeit those are then also quickly handwaved as not repeatable for reasons. Even the Soong method just got handwaved away).

 

[aquova]

It's probably Geordi's visor since we've never seen any indication of anyone else using it, plus after Geordi got his bionic eyes he probably didn't even know his visor was missing when Daniels stole it.

There is a background character in LD who wears one, but I do like the idea of Daniels visiting the LaForge estate sale and buying the visor.

 

[Yistaan]

There is a background character in LD who wears one, but I do like the idea of Daniels visiting the LaForge estate sale and buying the visor.

Geordi: But Mr. Daniels we don't use money in the Federation.

Daniels: You're not taking all this latinum? Seriously? There must be something you want. Or someone--Hey, Captain Erika Benteen looks a lot like, well look just ask her out for a date and if it goes well you're giving me the visor.

(Geordi later appears with a family in Picard)

 

[SG-17]

Overall I'd say this continues the streak of Star Trek series having trouble sticking the landing.

 

[Yistaan]

Overall I'd say this continues the streak of Star Trek series having trouble sticking the landing.

All Good Things deleted scene--

Picard: Q is more of a code name isn't it? Well I'm heading back to my ship

Q: And I, Trelane, Squire of Gothos, dismiss you.

 

[SG-17]

Integrating Calypso into this was so dumb and unnecessary.

 

[eschaton]

Overall I'd say this continues the streak of Star Trek series having trouble sticking the landing.

There are some things it really fumbled, IMHO, like the side plots around Book/Moll, and Culber's budding spirituality. That said, I think it stuck the landing better than any previous finale.

The issue was, there was precious little of value on the plane to land.

 

[IMC Headquarters]

Kovich should have revealed, "Just call me Doctor."

Give Wardrobe a shelf filled with Emmys, please! That wedding party...WOW!

Shit. Now I've got to save for a new badge! Me like!!!

 

[firehawk12]

I have a theory that they knew they were on to something with the potential for a Pike show when they were finessing season 2 (that especially would explain the last scene of S2) and they steered S3 away from a conventional exploration vibe

I can understand separating the two shows to make them feel different... but the fact that it's set 1000 years apart with a broken Federation should have been enough I'd think. Even then, I don't know if anyone thinks that any of the three season-long arcs was worth the number of episodes devoted to it.

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

Could have made that clearer. The galaxy is only 1000 lightyears thick. You are never that far away from it.

Only if you look at the 'Thickness' of our "Thin Disk" section of our MilkyWay Galaxy.

Spoiler: Size of the Major Structuures of our MilkyWay Galaxy

Remember that space is 3D and you need to think of it in that way.

Spoiler: 3D Cartessian Coordinates

The 1000 ly thickness only applies to the "Thin Disk" section and is only a average thickness.

Spoiler: [NOTE: Not to Scale!] The General Structure of our MilkyWay Galaxy and presumably most Galaxies

Don't trust that the 2D map that was created is 100% accurate either:

Spoiler: Galactic Map that is 100,000 ly in diameter is only covering the "Thin Disk" portion along the Galactic Center Plane.

This 2D Top Down Orthographic map portrays the "Galactic Rim" as just outside the "Thin Disk", but given what we scientifically know about the 3D structure of our Milkyway Galaxy and presumably all other Galaxies that must be similarly constructured, the Galactic Halo has a Diameter of 600,000 ly and engulfs the "Thick Disk", "Thin Disk", & "Galactic Bulge".

If the actual "Galactic Barrier" properly surrounds our Galaxy along the Galactic Halo border, then it would be MUCH further away.

 

[fireproof78]

My gut feeling is that Discovery (and "Calypso") will be retconned out of existence if it comes down to it for any future installment if this ending gets in the way.

That any future post-Kurtzman regime that might want to go in a different direction will "reinterpret" the material in the same way that Goldsman and company have done to the original IP.

So...like any other story in the past?

 

[Citiprime]

So...like any other story in the past?

Yeah, except when people really, really like stuff there's usually an apprehension to changing it. Or there would be hell to pay for changing it with some segment of the fan base.

If people really come to love this ending, it'll stick.

If people think it's a mess, like they did Enterprise's "love letter to the fans," they'll either ignore it or welcome the retcon with open arms.

 

[fireproof78]

Yeah, except when people really, really like stuff there's usually an apprehension to changing it. Or there would be hell to pay for changing it with some segment of the fan base.

Oh no...

Apprehension to change it? So, The Next Generation and all the gruff it took from fans? Fans memories appear a bit short in the broad acceptance of changes nowadays but rejecting newer changes.

 

[Romulan_spy]

And they had hamfisted limitations thrown in purely for plot drama. We had L'ak's body preserved (same as Kelvin Kirk). This is a universe with katras (resurrected Spock) and transporter clones (Tom Riker has identical memories) and synth bodies (Picard).

Seriously, all the progenitor tech probably needs to do is scan L'ak, scan the Breen ship for the transporter record of the last time he beamed on, then reanimate L'ak and reintegrate those scans of his memories into the new body. We've seen Trek do that with tech far less advanced than the progenitors' is said to be (albeit those are then also quickly handwaved as not repeatable for reasons. Even the Soong method just got handwaved away).

Which really proves that Moll did not even need the Progenitor tech at all. Federation tech could have made a synth body and put L'ak's memories into it. It would be indistinguishable from the original L'ak. But maybe Moll would not have accepted that as being the real L'ak. I think they have a throwaway line of dialogue about how the Progenitor tech can only create a duplicate of L'ak, not resurrect the original one. I am guessing Moll was hoping the Progenitor tech could literally resurrect the original L'ak and would not have accepted anything else.

 

[Ray Hardgrit]

I'm giving that episode Calypso/10! Sure they couldn't come up with any ideas on how to use the story as part of a season arc and it remains just as mysterious, but at least they set up a situation where the events can happen. Using the set up as an excuse to restore Discovery to its original appearance for the final shot gives it at least some reason to be in the episode, and sticking it after a huge time jump means they can tell Disco stories in movies for another 30 years or so before they run into it.

So I'm happy. Surprised and happy. Nice job Disco.