Spoilers 73 Yards grade and discussion thread

[Mr Awe]

Not sure what some of you were watching but that's one of the best Who stories I've ever seen. As far as explanations go it doesn't need one, call it a curse, or witchcraft. Magic is part of the world of Doctor Who now and that's the only explanation we need. I think it's going to go down as a classic. In fact, I can't believe they crammed it all into 45 mins without it ever feeling rushed.

The first two this year were OK. Last weeks was good. This one was excellent.

Stuart

I've seen that type of reaction to this story. I can respect your viewpoint, but it doesn't work for me.

I can take some unanswered things in a story, but this had too many. Also, there's the rule of thumb about having one impossible thing per story. This one had too many. If breaking the string had released Mad Jack and that it's, ok. I can accept that one impossible thing and process the remaining story.

But, instead, breaking the string releases Mad Jack, disappears the Doctor (but leaves the TARDIS ), creates Distant Ruby, who can somehow scare people away forever, uses time travel, and changes Old Ruby into Distant Ruby.

 

[jaime]

I wasn't clear on that aspect either. On the one hand, it seemed like them originally breaking the string circle and reading the stuff is what released Mad Jack. And, Ruby's actions later diverted the nuclear war. On the other hand, the 2nd cycle, they don't break the circle and hence Mad Jack rests in peace? Never does his stuff? Not sure.

Perhaps the answer is that by preventing the nuclear war, Ruby lives to an old age to become Distant Ruby who prevents them from breaking the circle. It's only by surviving that she can prevent them from breaking it. So, in a sense, the whole Mad Jack and nuclear war is just something she needs to survive to change history.

Perhaps?!

Except she averted nuclear war in that timeline, by standing 73 yards from her future self — who is somehow tied to herself at that distance — because Mad Jack decided to talk to her, for… reasons, and who ran away because she shook her tic tacs at him or whatever it is she does, so no nukes. And no nukes in the ‘fixed’ timeline either, because Mad Jack is still under a faerie circle, though the Doctor still thinks there are/were nukes, which there can’t be now, and I think he said he only got them to the edge of nuclear war — which is in the aborted timeline, which can’t happen now, because future Ruby shook her tic tacs, and was on the phone to her mum, also possibly her mum, which is absolutely nothing to do with Mrs.Flood, unless she’s the father or another incarnation of Dame Sian Phillips, who does the Macarena in a really strange way. Before shaking her tic tacs.

 

[Cuhl]

I enjoyed the episode while I was watching it, but it all fell apart at the end for me. The whole story depends on The Old Woman being some kind of Lovecraftian creature who makes people run screaming in terror as soon as she speaks to them. But if she's just a nice old lady who has come back from the future to stop a nuclear war, then what's the problem?

What could Old Ruby be saying to people that horrifies them so much? What could she possibly be saying to her mother that would make her shun her for the rest of her life? It makes no sense.

 

[FredH]

I enjoyed the episode while I was watching it, but it all fell apart at the end for me. The whole story depends on The Old Woman being some kind of Lovecraftian creature who makes people run screaming in terror as soon as she speaks to them. But if she's just a nice old lady who has come back from the future to stop a nuclear war, then what's the problem?

What could Old Ruby be saying to people that horrifies them so much? What could she possibly be saying to her mother that would make her shun her for the rest of her life? It makes no sense.

And what does she say that makes Kate Lethbridge-Stewart look at her with such disdain as she leaves?

 

[RevdKathy]

Yuk.
This was a complete cabbage soup. It made no sense whichever way you look at it and was deeply unsatisfying.

I love a good fantasy with a horror edge, but it needs to follow some internal logic.

Was there a reason why Ruby's adoptive Mum left in a Welsh taxi? Because the rest of the story made about as much sense.

No, Ruby can't be her own mother from this timeline, nobody ever got close to her because of the old woman.

 

[Redfern]

What could Old Ruby be saying to people that horrifies them so much? What could she possibly be saying to her mother that would make her shun her for the rest of her life? It makes no sense.

And what does she say that makes Kate Lethbridge-Stewart look at her with such disdain as she leaves?

The comically cynical part of me makes think of somebody enthusiastically discussing their favorite fandom, but then goes too far to reveal their private, unsavory fetishes surrounding it. At that point the person listening "cracks", fleeing in abject horror and utter disgust!

 

[Emperor-Tiberius]

The supernatural has always been in Doctor Who, and often tied to inter dimensional beings. We’re being told this is new, and it isn’t. See, for example, Battlefield for a very fine example if you look past the production issues. (disco lights and armour that should have skewed a little more sci-fi mostly) Chalk circle, silver bullets…

I don't think RTD is saying there's never been supernatural elements on Who. He is saying that the supernatural is the norm, as opposed to science-driven explanations to situations. And really, he's mentioned and indeed implied that the supernatural elements go all over the place, to the point of, for example, the Toymaker messing with the Doctor's origin as a jest (for him), thus you can add the events of Battlefield as retroactive fixes of that regard.

I wasn't clear on that aspect either. On the one hand, it seemed like them originally breaking the string circle and reading the stuff is what released Mad Jack. And, Ruby's actions later diverted the nuclear war. On the other hand, the 2nd cycle, they don't break the circle and hence Mad Jack rests in peace? Never does his stuff? Not sure.

Perhaps the answer is that by preventing the nuclear war, Ruby lives to an old age to become Distant Ruby who prevents them from breaking the circle. It's only by surviving that she can prevent them from breaking it. So, in a sense, the whole Mad Jack and nuclear war is just something she needs to survive to change history.

Perhaps?!

Or, simpler, the Mad Jack entity only exists in Ruby's now-aborted timeline. That Prime Minister the Doctor talked about in 2046 was never Mad Jack. So far we know at least.

 

[Rich Watson]

What could Old Ruby be saying to people that horrifies them so much? What could she possibly be saying to her mother that would make her shun her for the rest of her life? It makes no sense.

They're two separate characters; hence being played by two different actors. It's Ruby's magic-whatever power that lets her possess the entity when she dies for reasons I'm doubtful will ever be explained.

 

[The Nth Doctor]

I've seen that type of reaction to this story. I can respect your viewpoint, but it doesn't work for me.

I can take some unanswered things in a story, but this had too many. Also, there's the rule of thumb about having one impossible thing per story. This one had too many. If breaking the string had released Mad Jack and that it's, ok. I can accept that one impossible thing and process the remaining story.

But, instead, breaking the string releases Mad Jack, disappears the Doctor (but leaves the TARDIS ), creates Distant Ruby, who can somehow scare people away forever, uses time travel, and changes Old Ruby into Distant Ruby.

I agree with all of this. I'm all for mysteries that leave unanswered questions. But here there are too many unknowns, not much internal logic, and doesn't feel like it had much of a point, especially since Ruby doesn't recall any of it. At least Donna and Amy remembered their experiences and took lessons from them. What was gained here?

 

[Mr Awe]

Or, simpler, the Mad Jack entity only exists in Ruby's now-aborted timeline. That Prime Minister the Doctor talked about in 2046 was never Mad Jack. So far we know at least.

There sure were a lot of similarities. We were definitely expected to link the PM to Mad Jack.

They're two separate characters; hence being played by two different actors. It's Ruby's magic-whatever power that lets her possess the entity when she dies for reasons I'm doubtful will ever be explained.

That's makes even less sense????? I totally didn't get that from the episode. Doesn't mean you're not right though!

 

[RevdKathy]

I agree with all of this. I'm all for mysteries that leave unanswered questions. But here there are too many unknowns, not much internal logic, and doesn't feel like it had much of a point, especially since Ruby doesn't recall any of it. At least Donna and Amy remembered their experiences and took lessons from them. What was gained here?

It filled an episode in the run? Gave the make-up people the chance to age Millie?

Maybe "Mad Jack" is channelled energy from John Barrowman still sulking.

 

[Emperor-Tiberius]

I agree with all of this. I'm all for mysteries that leave unanswered questions. But here there are too many unknowns, not much internal logic, and doesn't feel like it had much of a point, especially since Ruby doesn't recall any of it. At least Donna and Amy remembered their experiences and took lessons from them. What was gained here?

That's pretty much the essential flaw of the episode, in the end. No one remembers. I still like the episode, but its also completely disposable because no one remembers the experience that occurred.

There sure were a lot of similarities. We were definitely expected to link the PM to Mad Jack.

Another disappointment of mine is that we didn't see Ruby living through a dysmal era of Mad Jack as PM before that scene, instead make it seem as if his era lasted exactly a few days, at most.

 

[RevdKathy]

To be honest I'm surprised they got away with this in the run up to a UK election.

 

[jaime]

To be honest I'm surprised they got away with this in the run up to a UK election.

I was expecting more satire or allegory tbh. It’s not like they could have predicted one would be so soon (bet they were happy though.
All we got was a Beeb presenter in age make-up, and the nearest we got to knowing he was a bad guy was the stuff with Marti — which couldn’t really go anywhere, and had to be imagined off screen — and some vaguely nationalist ephemera. This one had some Welsh Nationalist stuff too, I suppose.
I think one of the audios did a more overt job — an early one with Sylv and Soph…. The Fearmonger. Think that turned out to be an aborted timeline too, but not sure.

 

[Emperor-Tiberius]

To be honest I'm surprised they got away with this in the run up to a UK election.

Isn't it amazing, how the episode matched that timing so well?

 

[VDCNI]

I really enjoyed it.

More about the tone and atnosphere of the episode than anything else. It felt very different to other Who and current drama.

It was clearly not trying to provide all the answers and that wasn't a problem for me.

Main issue, the actor playing Mad Jack wasn't really able to sell why people would vote for him but tricky to do that with such limited screen time.

 

[Steve Roby]

To be honest I'm surprised they got away with this in the run up to a UK election.

With the musical chairs in the Conservative Party, when is it not possiby the run-up to a UK election?

More to the point, the political stuff in this episode was a very thin rerun of RTD's Years and Years, with much less resemblance to reality and much less of a point.

 

[JD]

Not sure what some of you were watching but that's one of the best Who stories I've ever seen. As far as explanations go it doesn't need one, call it a curse, or witchcraft. Magic is part of the world of Doctor Who now and that's the only explanation we need. I think it's going to go down as a classic. In fact, I can't believe they crammed it all into 45 mins without it ever feeling rushed.

The first two this year were OK. Last weeks was good. This one was excellent.

Stuart

I love fantasy stories and magic, but even with magic you still need to explain things beyond just "it's magic". The magic itself needs to have some kind of logic and rules to it for it to work, but none of that is really addressed here.
Overall I seem to have the same overall opinion of most of the other people here, it was a well done episode overall, and enjoyable up until the end. The lack of explanations is really frustrating. The stuff we see happens with no real explanation, and it all just feels incredibly. I really think if they had just explained things it could have been great, instead of just OK.
The thing I found most frustrating was the lack of explanations for who/what Mad Jack was and why he was locked up. Other than all of his talk about nuclear weapons, we never really saw him do anything. So at first I was wondering it was going to turn out that he not was actually supernatural at all, and the note left there by Future Ruby as a way to get modern Ruby to get rid of him.
What exactly was Future Ruby saying or doing to get everyone to run away the way they did? I could see people like Kate or the guy in village being easy to get rid of, but it most have been pretty horrible for her mother treat Ruby the way she did.
And what exactly happened to Ruby to make the whole 73 yards thing work?
What happened to the Doctor? Was he just wiped form existence? Was he sent to a different place or time?

 

[Guy Gardener]

I love fantasy stories and magic, but even with magic you still need to explain things beyond just "it's magic". The magic itself needs to have some kind of logic and rules to it for it to work, but none of that is really addressed here.
Overall I seem to have the same overall opinion of most of the other people here, it was a well done episode overall, and enjoyable up until the end. The lack of explanations is really frustrating. The stuff we see happens with no real explanation, and it all just feels incredibly. I really think if they had just explained things it could have been great, instead of just OK.
The thing I found most frustrating was the lack of explanations for who/what Mad Jack was and why he was locked up. Other than all of his talk about nuclear weapons, we never really saw him do anything. So at first I was wondering it was going to turn out that he not was actually supernatural at all, and the note left there by Future Ruby as a way to get modern Ruby to get rid of him.
What exactly was Future Ruby saying or doing to get everyone to run away the way they did? I could see people like Kate or the guy in village being easy to get rid of, but it most have been pretty horrible for her mother treat Ruby the way she did.
And what exactly happened to Ruby to make the whole 73 yards thing work?
What happened to the Doctor? Was he just wiped form existence? Was he sent to a different place or time?

He's a complex space time event that stood on a land mine.

Two weeks in a row, the same shit.

 

[Starkers]

I. Fucking. Loved. That.

I get why people didn't, absolutely, but it had me hooked from the start to the very end. As for explanations, as Stephen King once said, the best mysteries are the ones that are never given an explanation.

Felt very Moffat in places, but also harked back to some of RTD's other episodes, Roger ap Gwilliam felt like a mixture of Vivience Rook from Years and Years and Harold Saxon (even down to the implied harassment).

And how good was Millie in this?

Few answers but wonderfully unsettling vibes.