I will give "FURY" credit for one thing... it actually explained why Wildman was pregnant for almost a year and a half.
What are your controversial Star Trek opinions?
- Thread starter Amasov
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Since we're talking about Voyager Borg episodes... I'll only go into the major ones.
I liked how they handled the Mini-Borg Collective in "Unity". Given how soon this was after First Contact hit theaters, it was a good idea to take as different of an approach as possible.
I loved both parts of "Scorpion" in 1997, and I still like it. I couldn't wait to see the new character Seven of Nine. It's not BOBW, but it's my second-favorite Borg two-parter. The fourth season of VOY in general is still my favorite of the series by a wide margin. Which made the drop-off afterwards sting so much more for me at the time.
"Dark Frontier" is okay, but it's not the "TV Movie" that UPN promoted it as. It's just a two-parter. Getting to see more of Seven's backstory was the main highlight.
"Unimatrix Zero" had an interesting concept. I liken "Unimatrix Zero" to The Matrix where it's its own cyber-generated world that everyone lives in. Except in The Matrix, people in the Matrix weren't aware they were in a generated world but people on the outside did know about it. Here it was the other way around. People in Unimatrix Zero know it's a generated world, but people outside aren't aware of it. So, it's like an opposite approach. I'm pointing this out given that The Matrix came out in 1999 and "Unimatrix Zero" came out in 2000. So the VOY writers had to have had the movie in mind.
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And tonight, I'll put on "Endgame" again now that I've reached it. No comment until later.
I liked how they handled the Mini-Borg Collective in "Unity". Given how soon this was after First Contact hit theaters, it was a good idea to take as different of an approach as possible.
I loved both parts of "Scorpion" in 1997, and I still like it. I couldn't wait to see the new character Seven of Nine. It's not BOBW, but it's my second-favorite Borg two-parter. The fourth season of VOY in general is still my favorite of the series by a wide margin. Which made the drop-off afterwards sting so much more for me at the time.
"Dark Frontier" is okay, but it's not the "TV Movie" that UPN promoted it as. It's just a two-parter. Getting to see more of Seven's backstory was the main highlight.
"Unimatrix Zero" had an interesting concept. I liken "Unimatrix Zero" to The Matrix where it's its own cyber-generated world that everyone lives in. Except in The Matrix, people in the Matrix weren't aware they were in a generated world but people on the outside did know about it. Here it was the other way around. People in Unimatrix Zero know it's a generated world, but people outside aren't aware of it. So, it's like an opposite approach. I'm pointing this out given that The Matrix came out in 1999 and "Unimatrix Zero" came out in 2000. So the VOY writers had to have had the movie in mind.
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.
.
And tonight, I'll put on "Endgame" again now that I've reached it. No comment until later.
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I didn't know this was a controversial opinion - it apparently is - but I liked "Fury" a lot!
I was happy to see Kes again, and I think the story gave her a ton of depth. It's kind of a "The Last Jedi" situation - it is not the ending we had hoped for our hero. But contrary to Star Wars, where it felt just cruel to do that to the main hero of the story - I think for an ensemble it works very well if not everyone gets a happy ending. And her story felt very in line with the character - from the naive outlook full of hope, to great disappointment, to anger, to forgiveness. A much stronger arc than, say, a surprise death.
I can understand people not liking it. But that doesn't make it bad. And I not only liked it, I think it gave the show more weight when not everyone got happily to the end of the journey. And I generally like if old plot points are revisited - and not everything turned out the way we had hoped back then.
And it is certainly a much stronger character ending than, say, Tasha Yar or Jadzia got!
My only complaint with the episode is some timey-wimey stuff with past Janeway retroactively already knowing crucial stuff about the future. But, well, that's nitpicking if nothing else.
I never understood this argument. Main characters get no promise of a happy ending.
I prefer when they have no ending, when it is just left to the consumers imagination.
Same. Heinlein did this quite well.
I didn't and don't post in the VOY Forum, but that's the general sense I've always gotten from here.
One more note about Voyager before I get off this kick, until "Endgame" tonight. I think "Life Line" is one Big Fat TrekBBS Argument in episode form.
When it comes to the matter of having "intimate contact with an alien species without medical clearance" from The Disease, at least VOY itself showed some attention to its own internal continuity with this later on in "Prophecy" when the Doctor issued that exact clearance to Harry to deal with his Klingon "problem." Though of course that was just a throwaway joke for the audience to laugh at. And rather silly, since Klingons were allies that closely worked with the Federation all the time and their species was completely familiar to Starfleet medical science, so authorization shouldn't have been needed at all.
Kor
The night after, actually, but that's splitting hairs. It was okay. But the main kicker I got was comparing Voyager's very-early-25th Century to Picard's.
I agree.
Very depressing, but it's a good story.
Not all stories have a cheerful ending.
Yeah, I understand why a lot of VOY episodes get the mediocre or even downright terrible ratings they do from so many fans but "Course: Oblivion" is actually a standout episode from later in the show and actually turns out to be a sequel to an earlier episode, only you don't realize that until the end. One of the more clever stories from that particular season or even the later stretch of the series. I always give it high marks.
Indeed. In fact, a lot of TOS episodes didn't have a happy ending.
"Balance of Terror," I'm looking at you.
Yeah, quite a few had endings that were not exactly happy...
"WHERE NO MAN HAS GONE BEFORE"
"THE MAN TRAP"
"CHARLIE X"
"BALANCE OF TERROR"
"THE CONSCIENCE OF THE KING"
"THE ALTERNATIVE FACTOR"
"THE CITY ON THE EDGE OF FOREVER"
"CATSPAW"
"WHO MOURNS FOR ADONAIS?"
"A PRIVATE LITTLE WAR"
"THE PARADISE SYNDROME"
"WINK OF AN EYE"
"ALL OUR YESTERDAYS"
I'm sure others would qualify.
"WHERE NO MAN HAS GONE BEFORE"
"THE MAN TRAP"
"CHARLIE X"
"BALANCE OF TERROR"
"THE CONSCIENCE OF THE KING"
"THE ALTERNATIVE FACTOR"
"THE CITY ON THE EDGE OF FOREVER"
"CATSPAW"
"WHO MOURNS FOR ADONAIS?"
"A PRIVATE LITTLE WAR"
"THE PARADISE SYNDROME"
"WINK OF AN EYE"
"ALL OUR YESTERDAYS"
I'm sure others would qualify.
When the best thing that can be said for a jovial atmosphere in "All Our Yesterdays" is that the Enterprise just barely manages to get away from Sarpeidon before its sun goes nova and escapes the shockwave then that's not a happy episode.
Had City on the Edge of Forever been written in Endgame style, Kirk would've found a way to save the woman he had fallen in love with and save human history as well, that's for sure.
If City on the Edge of Forever had been the finale of a 10 year project it probably would have been different, yes.
Of course in that case it would have been Kirk sacrificing himself.
Indeed.
The "happily ever after " aspects really need to be let go. Trek didn't always do such endings.
No, they did not. But happy endings have become more and more of an expectation, especially with American audiences, in just about every storytelling venture.
I love a good, morose ending. And I don't think it's a coincidence that some of the episodes regarded as Trek's best (In The Pale Moonlight, City on the Edge of Forever, Death Wish, The Best of Both Worlds) have pretty dark endings.
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