Excelsior Technical Manual: Grand Finale
- Thread starter Praetor
- Start date
Some interesting finds as I'm continuing my research on set plans.
It seems as though the galley set may have begun its life as something else before it was the galley. At some point, it was apparently Troi's office but one of these plans of Stage 9 show it present and unless I am misreading appears to be dated March 5, 1987.
Here's a cleaner view of the Stage 9 plan that still includes the set:
I'm wondering if this could be the lounge set from "Haven" where Troi dined with her prospective in-laws.
The three overhead lights at the door seem to match:
And the wall behind Picard and Crusher seems to match the angled back wall with the single light:
I believe the openings shown in the floor plans adjacent would also line up to the window behind Geordi.
I can't remember when Troi's office first and last appears on TNG, but I'm thinking "Haven" was indeed the origin of this set. Pretty interesting that it dated so far back if so.
Anyhoo, I hope to have a revision of deck plans to share a bit later.
It seems as though the galley set may have begun its life as something else before it was the galley. At some point, it was apparently Troi's office but one of these plans of Stage 9 show it present and unless I am misreading appears to be dated March 5, 1987.
Here's a cleaner view of the Stage 9 plan that still includes the set:
I'm wondering if this could be the lounge set from "Haven" where Troi dined with her prospective in-laws.
The three overhead lights at the door seem to match:
And the wall behind Picard and Crusher seems to match the angled back wall with the single light:
I believe the openings shown in the floor plans adjacent would also line up to the window behind Geordi.
I can't remember when Troi's office first and last appears on TNG, but I'm thinking "Haven" was indeed the origin of this set. Pretty interesting that it dated so far back if so.
Anyhoo, I hope to have a revision of deck plans to share a bit later.
Looking at the dated image again, it was very definitely the "Haven" dining room, and I have to conclude that this was indeed how that particular set began its life:
Zoomed in, the room seems to be labeled "dining room" and the label to the right appears to read "starfield wall" for the window:
Consulting Memory Alpha, it does confirm the redress for the galley. Apparently the last time the office set was seen was in "Dark Page." I have to wonder if this set was also the generic science lab set seen in episodes like "Suspicions" and "The Chase." It seems as though this set probably remained until TNG ended its run.
Pretty cool to realize this somewhat overlooked set began as a dining room, became Counselor Troi's office, the Enterprise-A galley, the Sutherland bridge and Troi's office again. I have to think that the set probably wasn't relocated from this position after all when it was the Sutherland bridge and that they just blocked the corridor doors with the viewscreen. What a privilege it would have been to visit these sets!
Meanwhile, I have done a size analysis on the auxiliary craft for the Excelsior and it appears the Executive class shuttle is way, way too big for the 467 meter ship:
I haven't done an analysis of the 622 meter version, but eyeballing it even that bigger version wouldn't be big enough to house the Executive class as shown in TUC. It really makes me think that the scale of the model was meant to be about 622 meters in TSFS, but it was meant to be even bigger for TUC and its second life as the Enterprise-B and Lakota. I would guess that EAS's guess at ~700 meters is probably correct for this version of the ship, but that size is just big for me to consider valid.
The type-4 shuttlecraft, travel pod, and work bee all fit fine. Here are the sizes I used for my analysis:
So, unfortunately, the Executive class shuttle will no longer be carried by my "real" Excelsior and will be omitted from the plans and tech manual. Shuttlebay Two will just have two landing decks, and the "grabber" will still be used for other craft.
More to come!
Zoomed in, the room seems to be labeled "dining room" and the label to the right appears to read "starfield wall" for the window:
Consulting Memory Alpha, it does confirm the redress for the galley. Apparently the last time the office set was seen was in "Dark Page." I have to wonder if this set was also the generic science lab set seen in episodes like "Suspicions" and "The Chase." It seems as though this set probably remained until TNG ended its run.
Pretty cool to realize this somewhat overlooked set began as a dining room, became Counselor Troi's office, the Enterprise-A galley, the Sutherland bridge and Troi's office again. I have to think that the set probably wasn't relocated from this position after all when it was the Sutherland bridge and that they just blocked the corridor doors with the viewscreen. What a privilege it would have been to visit these sets!
Meanwhile, I have done a size analysis on the auxiliary craft for the Excelsior and it appears the Executive class shuttle is way, way too big for the 467 meter ship:
I haven't done an analysis of the 622 meter version, but eyeballing it even that bigger version wouldn't be big enough to house the Executive class as shown in TUC. It really makes me think that the scale of the model was meant to be about 622 meters in TSFS, but it was meant to be even bigger for TUC and its second life as the Enterprise-B and Lakota. I would guess that EAS's guess at ~700 meters is probably correct for this version of the ship, but that size is just big for me to consider valid.
The type-4 shuttlecraft, travel pod, and work bee all fit fine. Here are the sizes I used for my analysis:
- Executive class = 26 meters long
- Type-4 = 9.1 meters long
- Travel pod = 4 meters long
- Work bee = 2.7 meters long
So, unfortunately, the Executive class shuttle will no longer be carried by my "real" Excelsior and will be omitted from the plans and tech manual. Shuttlebay Two will just have two landing decks, and the "grabber" will still be used for other craft.
More to come!
I entirely agree. Due to the pre-existing starfield mounts it is probably also the windowed lounge which Worf took the 2 klingons into during Heart Of Glory. Unfortunately the director also showed the corridor directly behind those windows, making for a very odd scene!Looking at the dated image again, it was very definitely the "Haven" dining room, and I have to conclude that this was indeed how that particular set began its life:
Zoomed in, the room seems to be labeled "dining room" and the label to the right appears to read "starfield wall" for the window:
Consulting Memory Alpha, it does confirm the redress for the galley. Apparently the last time the office set was seen was in "Dark Page." I have to wonder if this set was also the generic science lab set seen in episodes like "Suspicions" and "The Chase." It seems as though this set probably remained until TNG ended its run.
(please excuse the ghostly klingon!)
I entirely agree. Due to the pre-existing starfield mounts it is probably also the windowed lounge which Worf took the 2 klingons into during Heart Of Glory. Unfortunately the director also showed the corridor directly behind those windows, making for a very odd scene!
(please excuse the ghostly klingon!)
Whoa. That corridor exits out to in front of the lounge windows. Is it there to watch someone get executed by being vented into space?
That corridor extends all they way round! Here's the route they walk:Whoa. That corridor exits out to in front of the lounge windows. Is it there to watch someone get executed by being vented into space?
@Praetor I forgot to link where I got the galley set plan from the other day, so here's the (excellent) resource in question
http://frogland.co.uk/set-archive/Set Blueprints/Enterprise Refit/Galley/index.html
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I’m surprised the Executive Shuttle is that big. Based on the details evoking the TOS shuttle (the side door, the three windows, and the impulse grill), I thought it was only a bit bigger than than the Class F, maybe half the official length shown in your comparison, or less.
I know I’ve seen it in charts and stuff before, but never in context where I’d have to consider whether it could actually land anywhere and fit.
I know I’ve seen it in charts and stuff before, but never in context where I’d have to consider whether it could actually land anywhere and fit.
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That corridor extends all they way round! Here's the route they walk:
Wow. Was that a continuous shot? If it was that's pretty funny
They stop outside the doors for some shot/reverse shot dialogue exchanges ("Galt is a farming colony!") before entering the room, but it's clearly meant to be the same corridor.Wow. Was that a continuous shot? If it was that's pretty funny
The windows in the dining room set worked OK in Haven because no-one ever left or entered the room via a tracking corridor shot.
I don't know why the director chose to redress and use the same set for this episode but it's a really odd choice given that the officers' quarters (with the slanting windows) were right there on the adjacent soundstage. Perhaps he just liked the look of the octagonal corridors better?
I never subscribed to the theory of the lower shuttlebay, to me that space is mostly for zero gravity shuttle maintenance, and we could argue perhaps that the two "exec shuttles" added for TUC are some smaller precursor to the Captain's yacht of later ships.
As far as the design of the ship itself, and what was intended by Bill George when building the NX version, the shuttlebay was only the aft doors, which mirrored those on the Enterprise.
As far as the design of the ship itself, and what was intended by Bill George when building the NX version, the shuttlebay was only the aft doors, which mirrored those on the Enterprise.
I have no issues with the concept of "Exec Shuttles" / "Captain's Yacht".
I do have a problem with having a "Dedicated Cut-Out" in your Ships Super Structure for one unique type of Shuttle.
- That's incredibly silly, wasteful in terms of training / logistics.
- That hull volume could be better used for MANY things in a ship, there's literally no good logical reason to create one-off unique shuttles to fit the hull space.
- A customized Shuttle with custom "Paint Job & interior furniture" would accomplish most of the same thing along with a dedicated parking garage space for the "Captain's Yacht".
That's why the first part of my comment was that I think that space's mostly for zero gravity shuttle maintenance...
Back when I was modeling my Potemkin shuttlebay, it became clear to me that there's no space for a lift or any sort of maintenance area directly connected to said shuttlebay, there's simply no room for a shuttle to even be stored below the bay. Thus my head-canon for a compromise was that maintenance was done in this lower section.
Back when I was modeling my Potemkin shuttlebay, it became clear to me that there's no space for a lift or any sort of maintenance area directly connected to said shuttlebay, there's simply no room for a shuttle to even be stored below the bay. Thus my head-canon for a compromise was that maintenance was done in this lower section.
I still don't get the need why the Galaxy Class, Sovereign Class, & Intrepid Class intended to have a "Captain's Yacht" that is unique to it's cut-out.
I'm like "WHY!!!!!!!!!!", just because it looks cool, doesn't make it practical or logical.
The amount of specialized logistics, maintenance, & training / inventory management isn't worth it.
Looking at the dated image again, it was very definitely the "Haven" dining room, and I have to conclude that this was indeed how that particular set began its life:
Zoomed in, the room seems to be labeled "dining room" and the label to the right appears to read "starfield wall" for the window:
Consulting Memory Alpha, it does confirm the redress for the galley. Apparently the last time the office set was seen was in "Dark Page." I have to wonder if this set was also the generic science lab set seen in episodes like "Suspicions" and "The Chase." It seems as though this set probably remained until TNG ended its run.
Pretty cool to realize this somewhat overlooked set began as a dining room, became Counselor Troi's office, the Enterprise-A galley, the Sutherland bridge and Troi's office again. I have to think that the set probably wasn't relocated from this position after all when it was the Sutherland bridge and that they just blocked the corridor doors with the viewscreen. What a privilege it would have been to visit these sets!
Meanwhile, I have done a size analysis on the auxiliary craft for the Excelsior and it appears the Executive class shuttle is way, way too big for the 467 meter ship:
I haven't done an analysis of the 622 meter version, but eyeballing it even that bigger version wouldn't be big enough to house the Executive class as shown in TUC. It really makes me think that the scale of the model was meant to be about 622 meters in TSFS, but it was meant to be even bigger for TUC and its second life as the Enterprise-B and Lakota. I would guess that EAS's guess at ~700 meters is probably correct for this version of the ship, but that size is just big for me to consider valid.
The type-4 shuttlecraft, travel pod, and work bee all fit fine. Here are the sizes I used for my analysis:
Some sources list the travel pod as being 4.99 meters long but this just looks too big to me, particularly next to the Type-4 so I have gone with the alternate, slightly smaller size.
- Executive class = 26 meters long
- Type-4 = 9.1 meters long
- Travel pod = 4 meters long
- Work bee = 2.7 meters long
So, unfortunately, the Executive class shuttle will no longer be carried by my "real" Excelsior and will be omitted from the plans and tech manual. Shuttlebay Two will just have two landing decks, and the "grabber" will still be used for other craft.
More to come!
Well, I thought there might be size/volume issues!
Yes, the Type-3/4 should be 30 ft long. A hypothetical 'Type-5' may remove the gullwing door section altogether meanwhile, losing a metre or so. I also had thought the Workbee was maybe slightly bigger, at 3 to 3.1 m?
But the Executive-class should maybe be scaled down to more like 37 feet instead, perhaps.
Great set analysis, meantime!
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Looking at your Potemkin shuttlebay (very nice!) it looks like there is room for maintenance to be completed in the back of the bay as it is double the height of your large shuttle. There shouldn't be a need to work outside of the protection of the ship's hull when variable gravity, antigrav units and tractor beam systems are available, IMHO. YMMV.
I have done a size analysis on the auxiliary craft for the Excelsior and it appears the Executive class shuttle is way, way too big for the 467 meter ship:
Shuttlebay Two will just have two landing decks, and the "grabber"
I have thought about that open bay being a clamp for a much larger craft than even the Executive shuttle.
The deep fantail undercut I see being filled in with a massive, aft-facing lifting body.
The sublight engine nozzle or aft gangplank fits inside that clamp in my imagination.
Imagine this backed up to that clamp…
https://www.nasa.gov/image-article/c-47-tows-m2-f1-lifting-body/
That flat top perfectly fits the long flat underside of Excelsior, and the sides of that drop-ship follow the side curves of Excelsior’s secondary hull.
From the side, the now-full belly of Excelsior looks a bit like the Oberth’s towfish like lower hull…until that surprise deploys to a planetary surface like something from ALIENS for Operation Retrieve.
Section 31’s Ptolemy,
Good shuttlebays would have to wait for the Sternbach Ambassador…though there was a Space Control Ship version of Excelsior that had good shuttlebays.
That was called Ingram.
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I entirely agree. Due to the pre-existing starfield mounts it is probably also the windowed lounge which Worf took the 2 klingons into during Heart Of Glory. Unfortunately the director also showed the corridor directly behind those windows, making for a very odd scene!
(please excuse the ghostly klingon!)
I completely forgot about that scene! Good memory and thank you for this and the links to the set archive resource. I rediscovered that myself while doing the last round of research.
I was going with the Eaglemoss length; I have definitely seen other lengths elsewhere. I'll do some more research on this before considering the issue fully resolved.
In your version, would they have to fly a shuttle down to the lower bay for maintenance, and then back up for storage?
Have you ever read anything about what Mr. George intended that lower bay to be? I don't think I ever have. The openness of the space is definitely weird but I have always chalked it up as a mass issue that they couldn't fully fil the volume. As a kid, I thought the blue glow made it a rear deflector.
Is that because of the deck height being so low? Upping the secondary hull to 12-ft decks like Mr. Probert did on the refit Enterprise seems to have helped in this regard but I'll do some more analysis.
Today's about crew quarters. I'm looking at quarters as broken into four categories:
Since one wall area is largely unseen, I've added the restroom door there.
I need to do some scaling confirmation but here's what a set of those quarters might look like on Deck 07:
I'm not sold on this being the final configuration yet. I don't hate it, but I also don't love it.
Particularly, I'm considering using a restroom more like this:
At the very least, I might go with a more conventional door and ditch the curves. Though I love what Lora did in "Mr. Scott's Guide" and think this is as probably true to the refit as one may get, I feel dubious about whether the curved wall/door for the restroom really fits with the rest of these sets. The other thought I had was to combine a pair of the quarters above and have them share a restroom... but for already having four bunks in a quarters, I feel this would be too much sharing.
I have to say that the one thing that all Star Trek quarters seem to lack is closet space. "Mr. Scott's Guide" puts a hidden closet behind the sleeping area, accessible from the restroom.
As always, opinions and thoughts very welcome. More to come.
- Senior officers - an update of Kirk's quarters from "TWOK":
- Junior officers (solo) - just the sleeping side of the senior officers' quarters, similar to what Kirk's quarters looked like in "TUC." I'm not going to try to explain why his quarters shrank by half on the Enterprise-A and fortunately I don't have to. I've decided that the Excelsior won't be bothered by the same issue, whatever that issue is.
- Junior officers (shared) - as seen in "Flashback" I haven't yet decided just what the rule is for junior officers to have solo quarters versus shared quarters. Valtane was apparently a Lieutenant or Lt. Commander, sharing his quarters with a newly-minted Ensign Tuvok and indeterminate others. Were these standby quarters? If so why on Deck 07? Do departments share quarters? It's interesting that Commander Rand refers to them by shift name, as if a shift bunks together. Thoughts welcome.
- Crew quarters - TBD; either a take on the senior officers quarters from TNG (as seen in "TUC" set redressing) or something completely different. If it's the "TNG" set, it won't have the large windows but probably will have some kind of arched wall (akin to how the Enterprise-A dining room had "windows" from the observation lounge set and a slanted wall to match.) I'm pretty sure the same redressing of the "TNG" set seen when everyone was hunting for uniforms was also briefly seen at the beginning of the film when folks are thrown from their bunks but need to re-examine. If anyone can help with this, it's much appreciated.
Since one wall area is largely unseen, I've added the restroom door there.
I need to do some scaling confirmation but here's what a set of those quarters might look like on Deck 07:
I'm not sold on this being the final configuration yet. I don't hate it, but I also don't love it.
Particularly, I'm considering using a restroom more like this:
At the very least, I might go with a more conventional door and ditch the curves. Though I love what Lora did in "Mr. Scott's Guide" and think this is as probably true to the refit as one may get, I feel dubious about whether the curved wall/door for the restroom really fits with the rest of these sets. The other thought I had was to combine a pair of the quarters above and have them share a restroom... but for already having four bunks in a quarters, I feel this would be too much sharing.
I have to say that the one thing that all Star Trek quarters seem to lack is closet space. "Mr. Scott's Guide" puts a hidden closet behind the sleeping area, accessible from the restroom.
As always, opinions and thoughts very welcome. More to come.
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Given that we see them wearing their full uniforms while "sleeping" later on, I think this very much suggests standby quarters for the backup crew of that particular shift.
https://voy.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/screencaps/s3/302-flashback/302-flashback-437.jpg
Do we see any lockers or storage for each bunk? If not, then yeah it would make sense that it is a standby area but oddly far away from the bridge?
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