Excelsior Technical Manual: Grand Finale

[Praetor]

Small update today. I have done alignment checks from various angles to accurize the shapes and dimensions of the decks as much as possible, especially the secondary hull and deflector alcove. I've also achieved a retrofit of the deck studies into the newer version. There's some more alignment to check in the deck-to-deck details.

With this, I can begin adding placeholders to the interconnecting dorsal and secondary hull decks.

More to come!

 

[Praetor]

Hey folks, small update for today:

It's almost funny how challenging it is to get something that I've had laid out in my head for nearly twenty years "on paper" but as they say, "slow and steady wins the race." I intend to finally finish this race.

There aren't a ton of visible refinements compared to how many changes I've made in my Illustrator file, separating elements onto separate layers for ease of future adjustment. However, I have adjusted several details on Decks 04-09 while aligning turboshafts. You'll also notice the eight main fusion reactors - four per engine - have appeared. Rather than the spherical units we see in the TNG era, I envision these as being "reactor piles" that are a bit more primitive. There will be additional auxiliary reactors in the back rear of the interconnecting dorsal, which provide power for the engineering hull as needed.

Once I've finished off the upper saucer decks, I'll be moving into the interconnecting dorsal, where I need to figure out turboshaft interconnections. Then it's down to the engineering hull, getting Deck 13 - the main engineering deck, with appropriate irony - laid out generally before attacking Shuttlebay One and the "humpback" area. I'm more and more thinking that initially saucer separation for Excelsior was intended to be a more routine operation that on previous ships, but that with the two hull sections separated warp drive wouldn't function, as the matter tanks stay with the saucer.

More to come!

 

[Praetor]

Hey folks, another small update for today:

I've spent some time adding the nacelle pylons and rough-in for the transfer conduits, here's Deck 11:

Most time was spent working on Deck 13:

I've spent most of my time today working on drawing the engine room from set plans, as well as recreating the battle bridge. I drew the engine room from a reliable TNG set plan drawing that I had on hand. The battle bridge will be accessible off the engine room corridor. The main turboshaft will run to the starboard of the power transfer conduit, with a Jefferies tube (styled like those from "Star Trek: The Final Frontier" will be on the other side, for maintenance of the PTC. The secondary hull corridors will likely end up not curved, but straight staggered with angled sections. You can also see on decks 13-16 where I've roughed in the cargo bays. These are meant to be a pair of large, open bays similar to those we saw on the refit Enteprrise. Deck 13 features only a high bay, for passage through the dorsal engineering hull cargo bay doors.

And here's a highlight of the engine room and battle bridge:

For those eagle-eyed viewers looks suspiciously like the bridge of the U.S.S. Sutherland from "Redemption, Part 2." I have always felt that was the Sutherland's battle bridge and, moreover, had we seen an Excelsior class battle bridge on TNG that set (or its constituent pieces) would have probably been available and used. The battle bridge location itself may be adjusted slightly.

I'm going to next continue down through the secondary hull, creating the walls and other details for the Shuttlebay Two open volume and trying to define rough-ins for corridors and turbolifts along the way.

More to come!

 

[Bernard Guignard]

Very Nice

 

[Praetor]

Thank you kindly.

Another small update for today; I promise I make a little progress each day even if these all look alike:

Of particular interest, you'll note place holders for the phaser cannons in the neck on Deck 10. I theorize that most Excelsior class ships didn't actually have these installed - perhaps due to a treaty limitation - since we have never seen an Excelsior actually fire them.

I spent some time adjusting corridors and turbolifts in the interconnecting dorsal and fleshing these out more on Deck 13. Right now, I'm not enjoying the central turboshaft running down along Deck 13, partly because it's so awkwardly off-center.

I realized that just because the Enterprise-D engine room set had a turbolift station to starboard of the pool table doesn't mean that the Excelsior should, as it just doesn't seem to make much sense with the space available. The power transfer conduits and cargo bays limit how turboshafts can run here, but I think it's important this be a main turboshaft crossover deck. I'm considering having two parallel turboshafts forward that run just inboard of the outer corridor and then merge after the PTC. I can finagle the cargo bay arrangement a bit to accommodate; originally it was one large bay with a divided high bay on Deck 13. If anyone has any thoughts about this they are most welcome.

Next, I need to also rough-in the Shuttlebay Two area and turbolift stops to help inform the ones above. Once I have all the turboshafts roughly where I want them to be, I can turn back to hardware and then actual compartments.

More to come!

 

[CaptChris42]

Hey folks, another small update for today:

I've spent some time adding the nacelle pylons and rough-in for the transfer conduits, here's Deck 11:

Most time was spent working on Deck 13:

I've spent most of my time today working on drawing the engine room from set plans, as well as recreating the battle bridge. I drew the engine room from a reliable TNG set plan drawing that I had on hand. The battle bridge will be accessible off the engine room corridor. The main turboshaft will run to the starboard of the power transfer conduit, with a Jefferies tube (styled like those from "Star Trek: The Final Frontier" will be on the other side, for maintenance of the PTC. The secondary hull corridors will likely end up not curved, but straight staggered with angled sections. You can also see on decks 13-16 where I've roughed in the cargo bays. These are meant to be a pair of large, open bays similar to those we saw on the refit Enteprrise. Deck 13 features only a high bay, for passage through the dorsal engineering hull cargo bay doors.

And here's a highlight of the engine room and battle bridge:

For those eagle-eyed viewers looks suspiciously like the bridge of the U.S.S. Sutherland from "Redemption, Part 2." I have always felt that was the Sutherland's battle bridge and, moreover, had we seen an Excelsior class battle bridge on TNG that set (or its constituent pieces) would have probably been available and used. The battle bridge location itself may be adjusted slightly.

I'm going to next continue down through the secondary hull, creating the walls and other details for the Shuttlebay Two open volume and trying to define rough-ins for corridors and turbolifts along the way.

More to come!

Yeah - really liking this project, so far! The Excelsior remains one of my all time favourite ship designs from the franchise too.

How many decks overall are being included, also? I've usually assumed around 24, but anywhere from 18 to 28 has been presented as feasible. I also think the ship could benefit from being bumped up to between 528 to 535 metres, quite possibly - but still not as high as 622-680 (tempting as that may be) That engineering is around deck 13 does seem to match my assumption, also.

Also - yeah, I thought the Sutherland's bridge was almost certainly it's battle bridge or auxiliary control room too. Which would make sense for a pretty much brand new, rushed out the yard ship.

Crew compliment is 600 to 730 I usually assume, but there's also plenty of room for more if the mission parametres support it. Complete with the triple layer bunkbeds (as seen in VOY 'Flashback')

As for Jefferies tubes - some I think might be between decks, but others are just where space allows (like in the saucer ventral indents for example) Also - research elsewhere on the forum has implied differing deck heights in the lower versus upper hull, too.

 

[Bernard Guignard]

Looking forward to individual drawings for each deck on the Excelsior Silhouette. Will you be doing a large detailed drawing of the Bridge also?

 

[Mytran]

I realized that just because the Enterprise-D engine room set had a turbolift station to starboard of the pool table doesn't mean that the Excelsior should, as it just doesn't seem to make much sense with the space available.

If it makes you feel any better the turbolift wasn't really used much and before they'd built the Jefferies Tube set the turbolift was located on the port side instead!

Then, when Rick Sternbach created the official blueprints he just stuck Jefferies tubes on both sides.
So there's plenty of precedent to do what you want!

I am loving the revisit to this project BTW

 

[Praetor]

Yeah - really liking this project, so far! The Excelsior remains one of my all time favourite ship designs from the franchise too.

How many decks overall are being included, also? I've usually assumed around 24, but anywhere from 18 to 28 has been presented as feasible. I also think the ship could benefit from being bumped up to between 528 to 535 metres, quite possibly - but still not as high as 622-680 (tempting as that may be) That engineering is around deck 13 does seem to match my assumption, also.

Thank you very much! Glad to meet a fellow Excelsior head. (We can invent a better name. )

I'm one who believes that ILM scaled the original model to 622 meters (after a very long series of comparisons in one of my older threads) but in the same breath realize that this was not the intent of the actual creative folks behind the show, and therefore stick to the traditional conservative 467 meter size. You hit it on the head that I'm giving her 24 total decks; the 24th deck is really just the secondary hull superstructure and not a full deck. It's probably only accessible via Jefferies tube. For a long time, I erroneously thought that the inner secondary hull "chasm" was just the back side of the outer hull, but as more and more photos of the original model have come to light over the years this just isn't the case.

Also - yeah, I thought the Sutherland's bridge was almost certainly it's battle bridge or auxiliary control room too. Which would make sense for a pretty much brand new, rushed out the yard ship.

With all the plasma leaks and all, it's a wonder it could leave dock on its own power.

Crew compliment is 600 to 730 I usually assume, but there's also plenty of room for more if the mission parametres support it. Complete with the triple layer bunkbeds (as seen in VOY 'Flashback')

I agree generally; I haven't pinned down a specific number yet but expect it to be in that ballpark. For some reason, a complement of 720 has a ring. As others have done before, I plan to try to flesh this out by department, once I get a better idea for how much space for crew cabins I actually have.

As for Jefferies tubes - some I think might be between decks, but others are just where space allows (like in the saucer ventral indents for example) Also - research elsewhere on the forum has implied differing deck heights in the lower versus upper hull, also.

I'm glad you said that - I meant to point our earlier that the primary and secondary hull decks actually are different heights, following what Andrew Probert established for the refit Enteprise.

Looking forward to individual drawings for each deck on the Excelsior Silhouette. Will you be doing a large detailed drawing of the Bridge also?

Thank you! And yes, I am definitely going to do a more traditional layout of deck plans. The way I'm creating them in Illustrator it is easier to do it with the silhouette and cutaway pictured. I am considering how best I want to feature these online on my site, and haven't really narrowed things down yet.

If it makes you feel any better the turbolift wasn't really used much and before they'd built the Jefferies Tube set the turbolift was located on the port side instead!

Then, when Rick Sternbach created the official blueprints he just stuck Jefferies tubes on both sides.
So there's plenty of precedent to do what you want!

I am loving the revisit to this project BTW

Thank you! I'm going to finish it this time if it kills me.

And I'm glad you found that screencap, I kinda remember that the turbolift switched a few times.

 

[blssdwlf]

Maybe the neck phasers were only active when the saucer separated?

 

[The Librarian]

I'm interested in what you do with the shuttlebay(s). From what Rekkert showed with his models, there's not really much space at all inside them.

As for the off-center lift shaft, I'd say embrace it. There's no reason to be perfectly symmetrical when the centerline is already occupied. The main advantage other than visuals for two shafts would be some redundancy, but it may make getting them down to lower decks harder once the hull starts to narrow.

 

[publiusr]

The one ship with a thick enough neck to have a shuttlebay—doesn’t.

I think one Ingram variant had a docking port at the bottom middle IIRC.

The aft most tail of the secondary hull—that should be the arboretum, cetacean tank or whatever…

 

[BajaTym]

I just finished reading through the thread, what a fun project. You've go some impressive illustration skills.

I'm looking forward to seeing/reading your future posts.

 

[Praetor]

Maybe the neck phasers were only active when the saucer separated?

An interesting thought. I'm guessing you're thinking this because of the awkward positioning?

I'm interested in what you do with the shuttlebay(s). From what Rekkert showed with his models, there's not really much space at all inside them.

As for the off-center lift shaft, I'd say embrace it. There's no reason to be perfectly symmetrical when the centerline is already occupied. The main advantage other than visuals for two shafts would be some redundancy, but it may make getting them down to lower decks harder once the hull starts to narrow.

Not gonna lie, I'm interested to see what I do with the shuttlebays too.

I am waffling on the central shaft because I want to do with the cargo bay. More on this shortly.

The one ship with a thick enough neck to have a shuttlebay—doesn’t.

I think one Ingram variant had a docking port at the bottom middle IIRC.

The aft most tail of the secondary hull—that should be the arboretum, cetacean tank or whatever…

I actually used to think those fantail doors were just big windows.

I just finished reading through the thread, what a fun project. You've go some impressive illustration skills.

I'm looking forward to seeing/reading your future posts.

Thank you so much!

Now a brief detour... here are the two variations on Deck 13 that I'm considering. The first is the off-center shaft that you've seen before whereas the second is a more symmetrical approach. The nice thing with the latter is that I'll be able to drop turboshafts through the cargo bays (visually resembling what we saw of the Enterprise in "ST:TMP") and I think allowing for better turbolift access below. The cargo bay high bay is just open to above and inacessible on this deck, and the spaces inside of the turbolifts would be machinery rooms and similar that could be accessed by walking past the PTC. I need to finish laying out the basics of the lower decks before totally settling but thought I'd present the two options for debate.

Not sur how much more of an update I will have today as it is Monday, but more to come!

 

[blssdwlf]

An interesting thought. I'm guessing you're thinking this because of the awkward positioning?

Yes. Also it could be a forerunner to the Galaxy-class setup where the one of its phaser strips cannot be used until it does a saucer separation.

 

[Praetor]

Not a bad thought at all. Intriguing.

I'm now waffling on the warp core, whether it should be the TMP-style or the TNG-style. I like the narrative concept of the "TNG core" being a byproduct of the Transwarp Development Project and the Enterprise-A being a failed attempt at adapting that technology, it feels a little forced and overly literal to me.

I find myself walking a fine line between "what would it look like if they'd shown it on TNG?" versus "what does this real ship I'm modeling look like?" I have a really hard time imagining that the unseen warp cores on the myriad of Miranda class ships looked like anything other than the TMP-style warp core, which in turn leads me to think the Excelsior should follow suit.

If I go with the TMP-style. I am also considering whether the Excelsior might have had TWO intermix chambers, owing to the change from one large deflection crystal in TSFS/TVH versus her later appearance in TUC. My thought is that the ship would have originally mounted one large transwarp core until being refit for production, requiring two parallel intermix chambers and crystals. This is almost a side thought, though, and would not be mandated if I switched it all to the TMP-style, just an additional thought or option.

I'm curious if anyone has opinions. Thanks!

 

[blssdwlf]

Not a bad thought at all. Intriguing.

I'm now waffling on the warp core, whether it should be the TMP-style or the TNG-style. I like the narrative concept of the "TNG core" being a byproduct of the Transwarp Development Project and the Enterprise-A being a failed attempt at adapting that technology, it feels a little forced and overly literal to me.

I find myself walking a fine line between "what would it look like if they'd shown it on TNG?" versus "what does this real ship I'm modeling look like?" I have a really hard time imagining that the unseen warp cores on the myriad of Miranda class ships looked like anything other than the TMP-style warp core, which in turn leads me to think the Excelsior should follow suit.

If I go with the TMP-style. I am also considering whether the Excelsior might have had TWO intermix chambers, owing to the change from one large deflection crystal in TSFS/TVH versus her later appearance in TUC. My thought is that the ship would have originally mounted one large transwarp core until being refit for production, requiring two parallel intermix chambers and crystals. This is almost a side thought, though, and would not be mandated if I switched it all to the TMP-style, just an additional thought or option.

I'm curious if anyone has opinions. Thanks!

In "The Search for Spock" we see part of an intermix ring and it appears TMP-style since it doesn't have bars/frame that are present on the TNG-style core. By TUC it could be updated to TNG-style. YMMV...

 

[Rekkert]

My head-canon was always that the TNG core (and warp scale change) is a direct consequence of Excelsior's transwarp experiment. That, alongside the age difference between Excelsior and Constitutions/Mirandas, leads me to imagine a less TMP-style core on the class, and even on the prototype itself.

Regarding the battle bridge, I quite like the use of the Sutherland module, though I must point out that on TNG that was indeed intended to be the main bridge. Though the room was meant to be read as incomplete, we do see the door labels reading '01' indicating it was deck 1, and we see the dedication plaque's there too.

 

[Praetor]

In "The Search for Spock" we see part of an intermix ring and it appears TMP-style since it doesn't have bars/frame that are present on the TNG-style core. By TUC it could be updated to TNG-style. YMMV...

We sure do; I'm pretty sure I have a better cap of this somewhere but here you go:

Does anyone happen to know anything about the set it was filmed on? Presumably it was a redress of the TMP/TWOK Enterprise engine room but maybe the second level? I don't remember there being a door there. Anyway, I think it's reasonable to think that was the "transwarp core" and got replaced with something else.

Funny enough, there's a small consistency in this scene with another Excelsior depiction:

The turbolift Scotty gets into has a squared interior, not unlike the one from "Flashback" (VGR):

Admittedly, they're not the same. But I thought it was a nice touch and presume it was intentional.

The junior officers quarters set from that same episode deserves some more examination too:

They're on Deck 07 so I wouldn't think these were standby quarters as they're too close to the bridge. And obviously it's a redress of VGR's junior officers set (with bunks added) which of course was evolved from the original TMP/TWOK officer's quarters set. It's a little amusing to think about both of these sets potentially existing on Excelsior as separate rooms. Curiously, I think the bunk wall is where the head normally was so I guess these quarters have a slightly different arrangement.

My head-canon was always that the TNG core (and warp scale change) is a direct consequence of Excelsior's transwarp experiment. That, alongside the age difference between Excelsior and Constitutions/Mirandas, leads me to imagine a less TMP-style core on the class, and even on the prototype itself.

With time to think since yesterday, I think I still agree. I probably don't need to figure out what the warp cores on all the Mirandas that served so long looked like. Perhaps they did get a TNG-style core later on.

Regarding the battle bridge, I quite like the use of the Sutherland module, though I must point out that on TNG that was indeed intended to be the main bridge. Though the room was meant to be read as incomplete, we do see the door labels reading '01' indicating it was deck 1, and we see the dedication plaque's there too.

I believed you, but dug up the screenshot for the class:

Right over data's shoulder, there it is. What a disappointing main bridge.

Nothing visual to share right now but I hope to have an update later today.

 

[137th Gebirg]

The turbolift Scotty gets into has a squared interior, not unlike the one from "Flashback" (VGR)

They also used a rectangular turbolift from the main bridge to the battle bridge in TNG: Farpoint:

Probably even the same set piece.

... I probably don't need to figure out what the warp cores on all the Mirandas that served so long looked like. Perhaps they did get a TNG-style core later on.

Probably a fair bet that they had identical-looking intermix chambers to the Connie, at least in the 23rd, based on a few seconds of footage from TWOK (obviously re-used the engineering sets):