What is happening with Star Trek literature?

[E-DUB]

Or looking for some sort of ulterior motive. "They're deliberately trying to ruin my favorite characters for . . . reasons!"

The alternative is that they're doing it for no reason, which is arguably worse.

 

[Avro Arrow]

I must be honest here. I don't understand this ongoing character destruction!
And I don't understand how so many can accept it and even like it.

Like Thrawn said, I'm sorry you're not getting what you want out of TrekLit these days.

Just speaking for myself personally, I do like the stories we have been getting, that show the characters at different points in their lives outside of the strict bounds of their respective television shows. Seeing how they deal with life as they age, the changes they endure--it all makes them feel more like people, and the universe more lived-in and realistic. I understand that's not what you want, but for a lot of us, that's a big part of the draw. Have I agreed with every single creative choice that has come our way? No, of course not. But even with the developments I may not like, the writers still make the story lines interesting and engaging. And I certainly wouldn't label every development I may not like as some kind of "destruction".

To be honest, I'm not particularly interested in returning to the days when everything was locked because the shows were still ongoing, and therefore nothing could change in the novels.

Obviously TrekLit isn't anything for me anymore, at least not recent books.

Since by your own admission, you haven't read any of them in a decade and a half... this shouldn't then have that much of an impact on you?

And I don't like the NuTrek movies and series like DSC and PIC either.

It turns out that Paramount has apparently been having cash problems lately, so the good news is they can no longer afford to send people out to viewers' homes to force them to watch things they don't like.

My only hope is that older books might be available.I really wish that they would be reprinted, some are so hard to find.

Most of the older books are available in eBook format, so you should be able to get them that way, if you were interested.

It's too bad you don't live in North America, you can't swing a cat in a used bookstore without hitting a bunch of older Trek books.

I obviously have no information on what the plot will entail, but one book you may be interested in is Pliable Truths, coming out in May. From the cover image, it appears to feature Garak, and it takes place during the TNG television series (and just before the DS9 series, by the sounds of it). Maybe you'll find something there that is more to your liking?

 

[Lynx]

If you like Garek, read John Le Carre novels.

Some of them are very good but unfortunately Garak isn't in them and they don't take place in the Star trek Universe.

Yes, he was.

No, he wasn't.
There's nothing in the series which confirms that he was a war criminal.

that's not how drama works.

That's your opinion, not mine.
There's a difference between drama and meaningless character destruction.

I would tend to agree with this. I value books because it challenges my ability to see characters taking on things that I wouldn't imagine them taking on. Hell, I wouldn't do The Wrath of Khan the way it did but it still rates highly by many.

I can value books for those reasons too. Some of the Star Trek books I really like have been that way.
But I don't like to constantly see my favorite characters being destroyed and totally messed up.

Like Thrawn said, I'm sorry you're not getting what you want out of TrekLit these days.

Just speaking for myself personally, I do like the stories we have been getting, that show the characters at different points in their lives outside of the strict bounds of their respective television shows. Seeing how they deal with life as they age, the changes they endure--it all makes them feel more like people, and the universe more lived-in and realistic. I understand that's not what you want, but for a lot of us, that's a big part of the draw. Have I agreed with every single creative choice that has come our way? No, of course not. But even with the developments I may not like, the writers still make the story lines interesting and engaging. And I certainly wouldn't label every development I may not like as some kind of "destruction".

But that's what we already have in our Gray Universe with its constant backlashes, failures, deaths and diseases.

And that's the reason why I want to relax from it by reading a good book with good storeies and interesting characters.

But how can I do that when my favorites are constantly killed off or ruined in some other way?

I can agree with some of what you have written but in recent time, there hade been too much of character destruction in both books and series and I must state that the recent series I've watched (DS and PIC) haven't exactly been what I want them to be.

To be honest, I'm not particularly interested in returning to the days when everything was locked because the shows were still ongoing, and therefore nothing could change in the novels.

I can actually agree here. There were some things which I strongly disliked in the series which I hoped would be corrected in the "relaunch" books that we had. Unfortunately many authors did seem to be as muck "slaves to canon" as the TV producers and didn't dare to come up with something which would correct those errors. But what we have got in recent times seems even worse.

by your own admission, you haven't read any of them in a decade and a half... this shouldn't then have that much of an impact on you?

I have to disappoint you here and correct you as well. I did buy A Stitch In Time by Andrew J. Robinson about five years ago when I found out about it. I was very impressed by that masterpiece.

Then I bought The Crimson Shadow by Una McCormack two years ago and The Never-Ending Sacrifice last year and was very pleased with the stories there.

I have to quote an authority here, who is myself, from a post I wrote last November, ironically one day before I found out about the events in Second Self.

The Never-Ending Sacrifice i

s fantastic. I bought it as a Christmas gift to myself last year and had just finished re-reading it. I just had to read it again after re-reading A Stitch In Time as well.

Rugal's story is incredibly exciting and touching and the fact that Garak is in it makes it even better.

Now I'm re-reading The Crimson Shadow which I also bought last year and I'm planning to buy more books which she has written about Cardassia.

Una MacCormack has given me back my faith and interest in TrekLit!

Yeah right!

It turns out that Paramount has apparently been having cash problems lately, so the good news is they can no longer afford to send people out to viewers' homes to force them to watch things they don't like.

How sad!
I was looking forward to a visit from them. We could have had a nice chart about the Mutant Nija Turtles in DSC while watching Icheb being slowly tortured to death in PIC.

Most of the older books are available in eBook format, so you should be able to get them that way, if you were interested.

I can live with that.

It's too bad you don't live in North America, you can't swing a cat in a used bookstore without hitting a bunch of older Trek books.

That's true. Star Trek items are hard to find over here nowadays.

I obviously have no information on what the plot will entail, but one book you may be interested in is Pliable Truths, coming out in May. From the cover image, it appears to feature Garak, and it takes place during the TNG television series (and just before the DS9 series, by the sounds of it). Maybe you'll find something there that is more to your liking?

I will take a look at that book. I just hope that they dont mess up too much of his background story as it was written by Andrew J. Robinson.

 

[Una McCormack]

FWIW, Garak participates in Tain's attempted genocide of the Founders in "The Die is Cast", and attempts genocide again in "Broken Link". Arguably the murders of Vreenak, his four bodyguards, and Graython Tolar don't count as acts of war, but they are murder.

Also, FWIW, I'll be very glad when this whole discussion reaches an end.

 

[Lynx]

FWIW, Garak participates in Tain's attempted genocide of the Founders in "The Die is Cast", and attempts genocide again in "Broken Link". Arguably the murders of Vreenak, his four bodyguards, and Graython Tolar don't count as acts of war, but they are murder.

Also, FWIW, I'll be very glad when this whole discussion reaches an end.

Garak didn't commit any genocide in The Die Is The Cast because there was no genocide since Tain's attempt failed.

As for the events in Broken Link, Garak reacted on the Female Founder's evil, homicidial comment that "all Cardassians are dead" including Garak himself, meaning that the Founders were about to exterminate all Cardassians when a chance appeared. As a patriot, Garak reacted to that and was about to do a preemptive strike. To be honest, I could think about something like that myself if some arrogant tyrant promised to wipe out my people.

The assasination of Vreenak, his four bodygards and Grathon Tolar (who wasn't the nicest man himself) was more and less because of Sisko. So Sisko is a war criminal too? Well according to his actions against the Maquis in For The Uniform, he is a war criminal too, poisoning the atmosphere of the Maquis planet Solosos III.

So will he become the next victim, being extreminated in some book now?

Obviously, you don't like Garak. So why write about him only in order to destroy him?

As for this discussion, it will end sooner or later. Just like my interest in Star Trek books has.

 

[Una McCormack]

Thank you for this interesting response.

 

[fireproof78]

The assasination of Vreenak, his four bodygards and Grathon Tolar (who wasn't the nicest man himself) was more and less because of Sisko. So Sisko is a war criminal too? Well according to his actions against the Maquis in For The Uniform, he is a war criminal too, poisoning the atmosphere of the Maquis planet Solosos III.

Yes, Sisko is. So is Garak.

Garak didn't commit any genocide in The Die Is The Cast because there was no genocide since Tain's attempt failed.

The fact that he was willing to go that far is not a positive. That it didn't actually happen, doesn't make him less complicit.

 

[Lynx]

Yes, Sisko is. So is Garak.

Hardly.
And it doesn't make them bad characters who should be wasted in books years after the series ended


The fact that he was willing to go that far is not a positive. That it didn't actually happen, doesn't make him less complicit.[/QUOTE]

Garak is Garak. Not always a "good guy" but not a "bad guy" either.
That's why he's one of my favorites!

 

[fireproof78]

Hardly.
And it doesn't make them bad characters who should be wasted in books years after the series ended

No one said they were bad characters.

I think they're war criminals. Period, end of story. How books use them is up to the author. They are not limited in their writing, nor should they be confined by what happened in the shows.

 

[Lynx]

No one said they were bad characters.

I think they're war criminals. Period, end of story. How books use them is up to the author. They are not limited in their writing, nor should they be confined by what happened in the shows.

Basically I agree with your statement. Too many authors are totall bound to "canon" from the series and can't see the posibilities of making something better out of characters who were wasted or under-used in the series.

But I don't like when good characters are destroyed and there is too much of that in TrekLit now.

So when it comes to TV-series and books, I will stick to my rules:

Rule 1: Never ever admire, like or trust a TV series, a writer, producer, book, book series or author.
Sooner or later something will show up which makes you very dissapointed and will change your opinion.

Rule 2: Never ever have a favorite character! That character will be killed off or ruined sooner or later.

Rule 3: Always be cautious with everything created and written after 1999.
Always remember that dystopia now rules in the "Gray Universe".

Rule 4: If you want to read a really good story which you really will like, write it yourself!

Rule 5: When stuck in some contradiction, always stick to the Lynxverse!
It's the one and only option if you will stay happy with Star Trek

I guess that Rule 4 will be the accurate solution in this case!
And Rule 2 will be the one I constantly break.

 

[fireproof78]

Basically I agree with your statement. Too many authors are totall bound to "canon" from the series and can't see the posibilities of making something better out of characters who were wasted or under-used in the series.

But I don't like when good characters are destroyed and there is too much of that in TrekLit now.

So when it comes to TV-series and books, I will stick to my rules:

Rule 1: Never ever admire, like or trust a TV series, a writer, producer, book, book series or author.
Sooner or later something will show up which makes you very dissapointed and will change your opinion.

Rule 2: Never ever have a favorite character! That character will be killed off or ruined sooner or later.

Rule 3: Always be cautious with everything created and written after 1999.
Always remember that dystopia now rules in the "Gray Universe".

Rule 4: If you want to read a really good story which you really will like, write it yourself!

Rule 5: When stuck in some contradiction, always stick to the Lynxverse!
It's the one and only option if you will stay happy with Star Trek

I guess that Rule 4 will be the accurate solution in this case!
And Rule 2 will be the one I constantly break.

I wish you luck with them.

Real life beckons more positively to me right now.

 

[Corran Horn]

To answer the thread's question I'll simply say, "Not enough."
I understand the market is what it is but I very much miss the 'old days' of multiple releases per month and thus multiple picks per show per year.

 

[F. King Daniel]

Rule 4: If you want to read a really good story which you really will like, write it yourself!

Rule 5: When stuck in some contradiction, always stick to the Lynxverse!
It's the one and only option if you will stay happy with Star Trek

Was all this just to hype your own fanfic?

 

[Bryan Levy]

Was all this just to hype your own fanfic?

Dude, I noticed this days ago. @Lynx is desperate for someone to ask for a link to his AO3 page. I feel very bad for @Una McCormack for having to read this thread, and I’m sorry that no one has closed it down yet, but it’s been a hell of a ride.

 

[Avro Arrow]

But that's what we already have in our Gray Universe with its constant backlashes, failures, deaths and diseases.

I wasn't familiar with this "Gray Universe" you keep speaking of. But based on context... this is what you're calling our actual, real-life reality?? Just so we're all clear on that...

Unfortunately many authors did seem to be as muck "slaves to canon" as the TV producers and didn't dare to come up with something which would correct those errors.

Too many authors are totall bound to "canon" from the series and can't see the posibilities of making something better out of characters who were wasted or under-used in the series.

If you are waiting for the authors to go against canon, you're going to be waiting for a long time. Numerous authors have stated time and again that they are obligated to follow the canon as set out in the shows and movies, as a requirement of working in the franchise.

I have to disappoint you here and correct you as well. I did buy A Stitch In Time

Then I bought The Crimson Shadow

OK, fair enough. But you're still being highly critical of books you've only read summaries of on MB.

Garak didn't commit any genocide in The Die Is The Cast because there was no genocide since Tain's attempt failed.

Attempted murder is still a crime.

Obviously, you don't like Garak.

This is completely baseless. Don't presume to tell others what they think.

I’m sorry that no one has closed it down yet

Oh, believe me, I'd be quite happy if this thread could go away. But we can't close a thread just because we personally may not like it. A (severely) minority opinion in itself doesn't really rise to the level of warranting a closure. I will continue to monitor, though, in case the situation changes.

 

[Tosk]

I may not share Lynx's...passion on this subject, but anyone who doesn't want to read the thread doesn't have to. And Sisko cannot be a war criminal due to the events of For the Uniform, because the Federation were not at war with The Maquis.

 

[Lynx]

I wish you luck with them.

Real life beckons more positively to me right now.

I wish that I could say the same.
As it is now, the music sucks, the movies, TV series and books sucks and too many people are utterly convinced about everything is gonna go straight to hell.

And when I need to watch or read about something that will take me away from that mess for at least some hours, then there's nothing there anymore.

Was all this just to hype your own fanfic?

No, it wasn't.
In fact, I wasn't even mentioning my fanfic, other than pointing out that if I want to read something I like, then I have to write it myself.

If I had wanted to "hype my own fanfic", then I would have stated that in my comment, sort of "There is a story about this or that charater at......." and added a link

Dude, I noticed this days ago. @Lynx is desperate for someone to ask for a link to his AO3 page. I feel very bad for @Una McCormack for having to read this thread, and I’m sorry that no one has closed it down yet, but it’s been a hell of a ride.

Oh, thank you very much for your friendly and encouraging comments. I'm so happy to have encountered you here.

As for any "promoting of fanfic", read my comment above

I wasn't familiar with this "Gray Universe" you keep speaking of. But based on context... this is what you're calling our actual, real-life reality?? Just so we're all clear on that...

Yes, that's right!

A person I knew some years back who is an ardent TOS fan used to talk about "The Gray Universe" in which we live as a contrary to the Star trek Universe. I found the comment very appropriate and have used it since then.

If you are waiting for the authors to go against canon, you're going to be waiting for a long time. Numerous authors have stated time and again that they are obligated to follow the canon as set out in the shows and movies, as a requirement of working in the franchise.

believe me, I gave up on that many years ago after having a faint hope that Kes would be restored in some upcoming book.

As it is, I'm happy that it never happened.

OK, fair enough. But you're still being highly critical of books you've only read summaries of on MB.

You do have a point here.
But it wasn't supposed to be that way when all this started.

As I've written before, I was very impressed by the masterpieces A Stitch In Time by Andrew J. Robinson, The Crimson Shadow by Una McCormack and The Never-Ending Sacrifice by Una McCormack.

As I also have written before, those books gave me the interest back for TrekLit and I went out to look for more books about Garak who is one of my favorites.


While searching for books about Garak, I found The Enigma Tales mentioned on Memory Beta but I also found some disturbing comments about Bashir there.

While searching for more information about that, I stumbled over the synopsis for Second Self.

As for the Janeway Biography, I had planned to give it to myself as a Christmas gift but after all the disappointing news about Second Self, I just droppedv the whole thing and bought a rock biography instead.

Which was quite tragic since it described a real-life person who was a brilliant musician but very self-destructive. But at least I knew what to expect when I bought it.

When I casually mentioned that I planned to buy the Janeway biography on another forumon Trek BBS, I was adviced not to buy it and when I was told why, well I decided not to buy it!

However, the information I got about that book made me a little angry which is the reason why this thread started.

Now I'm very happy that I didn't waste any money on the books mentioned above and if I ever plan to read a Star Trek book again, then I will check memory Beta first in order to avoid those small little surprises which have disturbed my good mood.

Attempted murder is still a crime.

That might be the truth. But in that case, Sisko, Kirk and many other of our favorites are murderers too.

This is completely baseless. Don't presume to tell others what they think.

It was just an impression I got. But point taken, I will avoid that in the future.

Oh, believe me, I'd be quite happy if this thread could go away. But we can't close a thread just because we personally may not like it. A (severely) minority opinion in itself doesn't really rise to the level of warranting a closure. I will continue to monitor, though, in case the situation changes.

Obviously some people seem to like the tread, otherwise I wouldn't be constantly replying to so many nice and encouraging comments.

And don't worry, I'm not out to start fights or break any rules. I have broken rules and I apologize for that but that had often been because of anger and disappointement, not for the sake of starting fights.

I just think that Star Trek is on the wrong course right now and not only in the books. That's an opinion I stand for.

I may not share Lynx's...passion on this subject, but anyone who doesn't want to read the thread doesn't have to. And Sisko cannot be a war criminal due to the events of For the Uniform, because the Federation were not at war with The Maquis.

Thanks!

As for the Sisko problem here, isn't it even worse to attack worlds which aren't at war woth the Federation.

To avoid any misunderstanding about Sisko, I really like him! Definitely one of my absolute favorites so I'm not trying to put him down in any way.

But he made some controversial decisions now and then, like his threat to poison Maquis planets. I found his cations there much worse than what he did in the episode In The Pale Moonlight. I mean, if my people were threatened by a genocidial enemy, I would do everything I could do to make a neutral empire to join my side.

 

[Extrocomp]

believe me, I gave up on that many years ago after having a faint hope that Kes would be restored in some upcoming book.

Don't give up yet. Only 37 years until Star Trek enters the public domain. 66 years for Voyager. When that happens, the Star Trek universe will probably become like the Sherlock Holmes universe, with anyone being able to publish a Star Trek novel. Canon will become meaningless. There will be a lot more options and with new medical breakthroughs in anti-aging treatment, you might even live to see it.

 

[Tosk]

But he made some controversial decisions now and then

Absolutely.

 

[fireproof78]

wish that I could say the same.
As it is now, the music sucks, the movies, TV series and books sucks and too many people are utterly convinced about everything is gonna go straight to hell.

Too bad for them. Life is more than entertainment and distraction.