Stardates and potential math.

[Yaroze86]

Hello all! Let me preface this and say this is all speculation and in no way am I saying this should be canon. Again all speculation and grain of salt here. I have been working out the math for how to get stardates to a working timeline. Hoping to have some input or some corrections or observations.

• DISCO/SNW: We have to take these as chronological. Stardates appear to reset after this date before TOS/TAS
• TOS/TAS: Take the first stardate from "Where No Man Has Gone Before" of 1312.4 as our starting date. This is to assume all stardates after this are chronological ending with "The Pirates of Orion" (left 2 off I will explain later from TAS).

If we take the episode: "Balance of Terror" (1709.2) and subtract from "Where No Man Has Gone Before" (1312.4) stardates equals 396.8. We then divide it by 730.5 equals 0.54 then add 2265 equals 2265.54. 730.5 is 2 years (365.25x2 days to account for leap year). This puts the episode still in or around 2265/2266.

Now if we take the "The Enterprise Incident" (5027.3) subtract 1312.4 then divide by 730.5 = 5.156 then add 2265 = 2270.156. So by this math Enterprise Incident took place in 2270.

If we take "All Our Yesterdays" (5943.7) and subtract 1312.4 = 6.34 then add 2265 = 2271.34.

This does not work well for "The Counter-Clock Incident" and "Bem" as their stardate are too close to TMP and puts them in or about 2272.

• For the "The Motion Picture" this still works fairly well. We have two facts we need to keep in mind as well as there was at least 18 month and 2.5 staryears that were mentioned in the movie. We take TMP stardate 7410.2 and subtract 1312.4 = 6097.8 then divide by 730.5 = 8.347 plus 2265 = 2273.347

If my math is correct if we were to use the TOS-R chronometer in 2266 in (TOS-R: "The Naked Time") that it would take 1 full stardate clock change for 2 actual days. So each day would be .5 stardates.

• When we get to the TWOK this method does not work. But with this formula this works for most things up too STVI. If we take it that the stardates reset in 2274 after TMP. We use the formula stardate divided by 730.5. So TWOK is 8130.3 divided by 730.5 = 11.485 then add 2274 is 2285. This keeps everything between 2285/2286 for everything prior to STVI. By using this model it would put STVI in 2287 and not 2293 that MA has.

• For Star Trek generations Enterprise-B commission stardate of 9715.5 would still place it in 2287 and not 2293.

• Weirdly if we take the USS Stargazer's commissioned stardate of 38197.5 and use the formula. 38197.5 divided by 730.5 = 52.289 plus 2274 = 2326.289 and fits when the Stargazer was commissioned.

When then need to take in account of the TNG and up stardates. 98% of these all fall within the correct time frame of the Chronology as long as they are not a reference date like Seven of Nine's birthdate and the one oddity of Unification's Pardek at a trade conference. If we count back from TNG first season to 2333 this appears to be another stardate reset. If we then take this as working timeframe then we can assume the Enterprise-Cs commission date of 18254.6, this would put its commission date of 2341. Leaving the ship was only 4 years old when it was destroyed in 2344.

 

[CaptChris42]

For Stardates from the Wrath of Khan to the Undiscovered Country, I used a rough correspondence of 178.2 Stardates a year.

That fits well with Star Trek 2, 5, and 6. 3, and 4, less neatly. Generations has no official stardate, but under the Enterprise-B dedication plaque's listed launch date, would be in 2294, technically, by my system.

The Undiscovered Country also has a minimal stardate span from the opening, to supposedly 'two months later' at the conference of Admirals. VOY 'Flashback' treats this as more like two days prior, however.

And the novels by Christopher L. Bennett attempt a clearer stardate correspondence, in the TOS and the TMP to 2279 timeframe. Those are usually much less neat, from what I can tell, though.
Seems like the system got revised multiple times.

And yeah, the 'new' system used in TNG and DS9 and VOY onward, may start anywhere between 2323 and 2333. But somehow, I don't know if it ever had a LITERAL 0.00 point. And may have transitioned even, from one system to another midway (as sites like USSalbion.co.uk, posit)

For the original series, I conclude it spans a good six years, from 'Where No Man has Gone Before' until mission end (TAS arguably included) with the five year mission beginning likely in late 2265 (before Thanksgiving? See 'Charlie X')

 

[Henoch]

I've only worked out a Stardate conversion for TOS, where like you, one stardate year is one year on Earth, i.e. 1000 stardates = 365.25 days, so 1 stardate is about 8.766 hours (8 hr 46 min) or one Earth day is ~2.74 stardates.

For WNMHGB, I have it using United Earth Stardates which roll over on Jan. 1 each year. Kirk newly takes over command of the Enterprise from Pike (tombstone has C. 1277.1 to 1313.7 which assume C=date Kirk became and will die as Captain). This is not part of Kirk's five year mission rather he assumes Pike's mission on EU stardate 1277.1 or April 11. WNMHGB ends on EU stardate 1313.8 or April 24 and I put the year at 2265 (+300 years after filming year of 1965, and EU stardate 0000 is 2264 or +300 years since Star Trek was first pitched in 1964). Shortly after this one-off mission, the Enterprise is laid up and refit for Kirk's five year mission.

Note on log entries: Log entries can be realtime, minutes, hours, days, and rarely, weeks/months after actual events. The stardates given in these logs are the time that the entry is made in the log, not necessarily the time of the actual event. Assigning the time of the actual event can be subjective based on the information in the script, so, this gives leeway for the start and end of events plus allows travel time between adventures.

Here are my TOS stardate "rules":

1. 1000 stardates = one Earth year or 365.25 days or 8766 hours; or ~2.74 stardates = 1 day;
2. Scene or actor delivered stardates are actual stardates of the event and cannot be changed;
3. Log entries are always spoken in the present tense narrative;
4. "Log" entries can be minutes, hours, days, weeks, months after actual events as-recorded in the ship's records during the episode or as-edited in the mission report after the event;
5. I try to assume the least amount of lapsed time of log entries (report while still fresh in memory) but you can also assume any length of time prior to the inserted log stardates, even several months on rare occasion.
6. It is better to sort the episodes by finish stardates, but this is only a minor issue versus start stardates;
7. Episode durations and time between episodes must be estimated based on episode dialog or action; as a rule of thumb, one to two weeks (20-40 stardates) should be allowed between episodes, but only a day or two is sufficient to travel several star systems if they are in a hurry like answering a distress call (speed of plot can be very fast);
8. Several unknown stardate episodes must be estimated; as a rule of thumb, try to stick to production order if possible, i.e. put episode 54 as close to 53 or 55 as possible;
9. I put in additional time to complete the unaired parts of each mission (x days scanning before episode, deliver x to y after episode) or for ship repairs, interior ship updates (i.e. set changes) and starbase visits; serious ship repairs can take one or two weeks; major upgrades maybe longer.
10. If there is no in-universe explanation for something that doesn't fit, assume it is a script error/typo and move along. (This possibly occurs in at least four episodes: TGOT; TDY; ATCSL; SB which I rule all have stardate script errors.)
11. Roddenberry's explanation to annoying fans at a convention that stardates takes in variances for galactic location, etc. is Bullsh-t.
12. Have fun is the most important rule.

I have TOS using the new Federation Stardates which reset on May 11, 2265 backtracked from Charlie X which rolls over on May 11 each Earth year (The Federation Headquarters is on Earth hence still using Earth years). May 11 may be an important date to the Federation like maybe its anniversary of its founding, and/or the date when UE Starfleet Command takes over all the Federation's space command, details still in committee hence the delay until midseason year one . I have Kirk's five year mission starting on ~1000 which equates to 5/11/2266. The first 4 months of his mission are uneventful with most of it traveling from Earth to the far fringe of the Federation. First episode is Mudd's Women (Mudd’s hearing on 1329.2 or 9/10/2266)(just in time for the new fall TV season ). The last episode is All Our Yesterdays (starts on 5943.7 or 4/20/2271, and 4 years 11 months after the start of the five year mission.) <One can propose that Day of the Dove can be the last episode based on Kang's 3 years remark. The Organian Peace Treaty in episode EOM was stardate ~3201, adding 3 full years puts it at Stardate ~6200 (+ a little if the Treaty wasn’t drafted and signed until later). For this episode to occur close to its production order, Kang’s “3 years” could be up to 6 months shorter pushing its earliest most stardate to ~5700. Stardate 5760 fits with its production order making it ~2 years 7 months since EOM which is where I put it.>

I mostly ignore the TAS and TMP stardates; they are their own thing. Regardless of the TAS stardates, visually, the TAS Enterprise is modified from TOS (second turbolift on bridge, engineering and shuttlebay changes, etc.) plus personnel changes (M'Ress and Arex and no Chekov); in-universe, this must occur after TOS. Overall, 6150 stardates occur (if you believe their stardates mean anything) or over 6 years. Maybe this suggests that TAS is a completely new five year mission plus a little. Put The Pirates of Orion, The Counter-Clock Incident and Bem as ceremonial/diplomatic missions after a TAS five year mission seems okay; roll out the old girl and hero crew over the next year+ for special occasions.

ST1:TMP = stardate 7410.2? one theory, after TAS, Kirk is promoted 1 year prior to the start of the TMP 1.5 year refit (to meet Kirk's 2.5 year without logging a star hour). This puts TMP ~13.5+ years (1st 5YM + 2nd 5YM + ~1 yr + 2.5 yrs) after the TOS start date (5/11/2266) or ~ late 2279 which just happens to be ~300 years after its release date in Dec 1979 and matches the actors ages. Sounds okay.

ST2:TWOK = stardate (1)8130.3 (June 27, 2283) on Kirk's birthday; Romulan Ale is also bottled 2283 (or later, but not earlier). There's ~5,000 stardates from Space Seed (July 2, 2268), add a ten year or 10,000 stardate roll over makes 15,000 stardates or 15 years, and both Kirk and Khan say it was 15 years ago. Sounds okay. <Just a few months after Space Seed, Kirk is 34 so he was born June 27, 2234. >

ST3:TSFS = stardate (1)8210.3 (July 27, 2283). 68 stardates or 25 days after TWOK. Sounds okay.

ST4:TVH = stardate (1)8390.0 (Oct 1, 2283). 180 stardates or about 67 days after TSFS. Kirk says they are in the 3rd month of exile, so between 60 and 90 days. Sounds okay.

ST5:TFF = stardate (1)8454.1 (Oct 24, 2283). 64 stardates or about 23 days after TVH. They must have got the new ship very quickly and Scott is still working out the bugs which suggests it was indeed a rush job. Sounds okay.

ST6:TUC = stardate (2)9521.6 (Nov 17, 2294). Can't be only 1070 stardates or a little over one year after TFF, since Sulu says he is finishing up a 3 year mission. A three year gap between TFF and TUC is at least ~3000 stardates. So, there may be another rollover of +10,000 stardates or 11,070 stardates or ~11 years passed after TFF. A long time gap but it brings us up to the real passage of time for Kirk's upcoming retirement as implied at the end of the TUC. Sounds okay.

ST7:GEN = stardate unknown (I recommend ~2295) for the Enterprise-B Launch. At the end of TUC, it seems Kirk will retire a short time (months?) after TUC, and his length of retirement in GEN seems recent based on dialog. This puts Kirk’s total time in the captain’s chair at almost 30 years which lines up with the 30 year remark. Sounds okay.

Moving TWOK to +2 years to 2285 as some put it, means that the whole, above timeline needs to shift +2 years. I prefer 2283 since the film was released in 1982 which is closer to the +300 year convention. This is a lot of assumptions and personal choices, so, YMMV .

 

[CaptChris42]

Of course, comments in Generations and 'Relics', and 'The Neutral Zone' - collectively hard lock many Kirk era dates. Be they about his retired period with Antonia, the Nexus, and the 75 and 78 year spans.

So Kirk cannot really enter the Nexus much past June 2293, and be there 78.2 years, say (to August 2371 - if it's a real 1000 units a year match up)

 

[Henoch]

Of course, comments in Generations and 'Relics', and 'The Neutral Zone' - collectively hard lock many Kirk era dates. Be they about his retired period with Antonia, the Nexus, and the 75 and 78 year spans.

So Kirk cannot really enter the Nexus much past June 2293, and be there 78.2 years, say (to August 2371 - if it's a real 1000 units a year match up)

My timeline encompasses the TOS and the TOS movies. I didn't have the mental energy to move on to TNG, etc. If they say the second part of GEN is the year 2371, then we need to push my above timeline -2 years and assume the 2283 date on the bottle of Romulan Ale is something like an expiration date and not a bottling date.

In any event, Space Seed and TWOK continue to confuse the timeline with references of ~200 years since 1996. Add in 3 centuries (~300 years) since Lincoln died (1865) from The Savage Curtain, you'ed think TOS takes place around 2200. Warp drive would be discovered around the year 2000.

 

[blssdwlf]

My timeline encompasses the TOS and the TOS movies. I didn't have the mental energy to move on to TNG, etc. If they say the second part of GEN is the year 2371, then we need to push my above timeline -2 years and assume the 2283 date on the bottle of Romulan Ale is something like an expiration date and not a bottling date.

In any event, Space Seed and TWOK continue to confuse the timeline with references of ~200 years since 1996. Add in 3 centuries (~300 years) since Lincoln died (1865) from The Savage Curtain, you'ed think TOS takes place around 2200. Warp drive would be discovered around the year 2000.

LOL. TOS does take place around 2200 and then the Romulans messed it up

 

[Praetor]

Other than Kirk's birthday being March 22nd, I am utterly surprised by how well this all works out. Great job!

 

[Henoch]

LOL. TOS does take place around 2200 and then the Romulans messed it up

Those darn time traveling Romulans.

I plan to do a +230 year timeline to include these 200 year references. The space warp was discovered by Cochrane around 2000, but the routine use of the warp drive started in 2018 when sleeper ships became unnecessary. I assume a few experimental prototypes of the warp drive were made prior to 2018.

I think I have an in-universe explanation for the 2283 date on the bottle: we never see the date on the bottle, only we see/hear Kirk struggle to read the date do to his poor vision and maybe small print on the bottle. He does not have the reading glasses, yet. Kirk just misread the date*! Case solved.

<*edit. 2209 works well.>

 

[Mres_was_framed!]

1 stardate is about 8.766 hours

1000 stardates = one Earth year or 365.25 days

This seems to match up with TNG and they way they figured out out character's birthdays for the Monopoly set, which interestingly seem to match the actors' if I remember it right.

only we see/hear Kirk struggle to read the date do to his poor vision and maybe small print on the bottle

That is a fun idea that adds a little more comedy to the moment.

I'm surprised that by moving TOS a bit later than shown in the chronology it seems to fit with ST:II more smoothly. I have typically tired to move the movies earlier than they are said to occur in the chronology to make it line up. Either way, the more time that 1701A is in service the more sense it makes that it has been retired.

I could put it that the Enterprise-B portion of Star Trek Generations is 30 years after Star Trek 6 so that the Enterprise-A was in service longer, but that would not fit with the "78-years Later" onscreen in the movie.

 

[Patrick Tilton]

Hello, one and all -- new member here, and somewhat obsessed with chronology and the 'stardate' problem.

My preferred way to look at stardates is, first off, to make as much sense of the TOS episodes, as well as to take into account the Films. The TAS episodes, unfortunately, and the 1st Film, just can't fit in perfectly with the system I prefer, but more on that in a bit.

The stardates in "The Wrath of Khan" back up the idea that there are 1,000 stardate units ['SDU'] per Earth year. How long is a 'year', though? The tropical year is 365.24219878 days long, just a hair under 31,556,926 seconds. But the CALENDAR year -- the Gregorian Calendar -- has, on average, 365.2425 days = 146,097 days every 400 years. That amounts to 31,556,952 seconds per year. There is a plan afoot to make any calendar year evenly divisible by '4000' into a common [365-day] year, which will make an average year 365.24225 days long, but as the issue won't come up for another 1,975+ years, I feel it's safe to ignore that, so the 'year' I'm going with is 365.2425 days long.

When does the UFP and Starfleet adopt the Stardate system? It isn't mentioned in "The Cage" so I deduce that it was after the Talos IV incident. One clue is that STAR TREK CHRONOLOGY has it that the Stardate system used in TNG has its starting date (i.e. its 'epoch') in 2323 CE. Before that moment, they used a sequence of seven decade-long periods, each one spanning 10,000 SDU, from SD 0000.0 to 9999.9. The fuller version of this clock, as seen in "The Search For Spock," is 0000.00.00.00 to 9999.99.99.99, the year being decimalized so that the right-most digit in the 10-digit display would equal one billionth of a year = 0.031556952 seconds.

It can be deduced that the Talos IV incident happened in December of 2252. Let me suggest that the 1st 'decade' of Stardate time began at the stroke of Midnight (Greenwich Mean Time = Universal Time) when the date 1 January 2253 began on Earth, and came to an end 3,652.425 days later on 1 January 2263 at 10:12:00 (i.e. 0.425 days into that day). The 'decade' during which Kirk's 5-Year Mission happens began with SD 0000.00.00.00 at 10:12:00 on 1 January 2263 and ended a fraction of a second after 9999.99.99.99 -- after the passage of 20,000 SDU since the 1st SD 'decade' began -- or, 7,304.85 days since the Start, i.e. 0.15 days (3 hours + 36 minutes) before 1 January 2273 began: or at 20:24:00 on 31 December 2272.

In my view, SD 1277.1 (on Kirk's tombstone) represents the moment when Kirk assumed his captaincy of the Enterprise -- the start of the 5-Year Mission. By my method, this would have been 11,277.1 SDU since the Start, or 11.2771 years = 4,118.876197 days : subtract the 3,652 days (2253 thru 2262 CE), then 365 days (2263 CE), and that leaves 101.8761968 days into the year 2264. Subtract 31 days (January) + 29 days (February, 2264 being a Leap Year) + 31 days (March) leaves 10.87619675 days into April 2264 = 11 April 2264 at 21:01:43.3992 for the moment when SD 1277.0 [i.e. 1277.09.99.99] clicked over to SD 1277.10.00.00.

It takes an average spoken stardate -- such as 1277.0 -- to advance to the next deci-unit number (i.e. to 1277.1 ... 1277.2 ... 1277.3 ... etc.) one-tenth of a SDU, or 52 minutes + 35.6952 seconds. This 10th-of-a-Stardate Unit should, I suggest, be the "star-hour" referred to by Decker in STTMP, it being just about the run-time of a TV show back in the '60s, minus the commercials. That's one ten-thousandth of a 365.2425-day year = 0.876582 hours long = 52.59492 minutes = 3,155.6952 seconds.

Since SD 1277.1 represents a time almost exactly equal to 2100 hours on 11 April 2264, then if that date (04-11-2264 CE) is the start of the 5-Year Mission, then Year 2 would begin on 11 April 2265 ... Year 3 on 11 April 2266 ... Year 4 on 11 April 2267 ... and Year 5 on 11 April 2268 ... the Mission ending c. 10 April 2269, assuming it lasts exactly 5 years according to the Gregorian Calendar.

The final TOS episode (according to SD) would be "All Our Yesterdays" on SD 5943.7. Add 10,000 SDU (the 1st SD 'decade') and divide by 1,000, and that's 15.9437 years since the SD calendar began in 2253, i.e. 5,823.316847 days since : -3652 days [2253 thru 2262] -1461 days [2263 thru 2266] -365 days [2267 CE] -335 days [2268, January thru November] = 10.31684725 days into December 2268 = 11 December 2268 at 07:36:16. This date represents almost exactly 4 months before the end of a 5-Year Mission.

Thus, the entire run of TOS episodes fit snugly into that 5,000 SDU period of time, from 1277.1 to 5943.7, a period of 4,666.6 SDU = 4.6666 years, with 1/3rd of a year's worth of time left over before they return to Spacedock. I like to imagine that the emotional toll taken on Spock during his brief time on Sarpeidon in the distant Past, when he ate meat and impregnated Zarabeth . . . that this is what led to him seeking to go through the Kolinahr ritual.

Unfortunately, I see no way to incorporate the TAS episodes into my scheme -- and there's a major problem with the stardate given for STTMP. That 1st film should be at least 2,500 SDU after SD 5945-ish (at the earliest) or SD 6277.1 (at the latest), since Decker says Kirk hasn't logged a single 'star-hour' in 2 and a half years, that would mean STTMP ought to be set in SD 8445 to 8777.1 or so. If its Stardate 7410.2 is in the same decade as the TOS episodes, then that's only 1.1331 to 1.4665 years since those end-dates.

Thus, if it were up to me, I would either consider TMP to be non-canon, or would re-date it to a later stardate, to take into account Decker's reference to 2 + 1/2 years. If we were to re-date TMP, then we might also consider re-dating the TAS episodes, so as to fit them all into the 4-month period between "All Our Yesterdays" and the end of the 5-Year Mission. Those 22 TAS episodes would have to span a period of about 13.9 days each in order to fit snugly and evenly between SD 5943.7 and 6277.1 -- a not so impossible feat.

It's important to realize, of course, that the 1,000 SDU = 1 Earth year system wasn't made 'canon' until they made "The Wrath of Khan, there being exactly 1,000 SDU between the time when Carol Marcus recorded her PROJECT: GENESIS proposal [SD 7130.4] and when Chekov recorded his log entry upon entry into the Ceti Alpha system [SD 8130.4] -- and Kirk, soon after, says her recording was made "about a year ago." From "Space Seed" [SD 3141.9] until SD 9999.9 there are 6,858 SDU (6.858 years), and from the next moment -- SD 0000.0 in the next stardate 'decade' -- until SD 8130.4 (i.e. 8.1304 years) there's a total of 14,988.4 SDU = 14.9884 years, or just shy of the "15 years" mentioned by both Khan and Kirk as the interval between their meeting.

With very few 'snags', my system is able to make good sense out of nearly all the stardate information from TOS through the TNG-DS9-VOY period, with the exception of the TAS episodes and the 1st film. Ever since then, though -- unfortunately -- they haven't been doing a good job of having the newer shows (and the JJ-verse films) fit in with this system. I'm not even going to try to reconcile them with the 'main' canon of Trek.

I could go into more depth, but this is already pretty long, so I'll end it here. LLAP.

 

[Mytran]

Hello, one and all -- new member here, and somewhat obsessed with chronology and the 'stardate' problem.

My preferred way to look at stardates is, first off, to make as much sense of the TOS episodes, as well as to take into account the Films. The TAS episodes, unfortunately, and the 1st Film, just can't fit in perfectly with the system I prefer, but more on that in a bit.

The stardates in "The Wrath of Khan" back up the idea that there are 1,000 stardate units ['SDU'] per Earth year. How long is a 'year', though? The tropical year is 365.24219878 days long, just a hair under 31,556,926 seconds. But the CALENDAR year -- the Gregorian Calendar -- has, on average, 365.2425 days = 146,097 days every 400 years. That amounts to 31,556,952 seconds per year. There is a plan afoot to make any calendar year evenly divisible by '4000' into a common [365-day] year, which will make an average year 365.24225 days long, but as the issue won't come up for another 1,975+ years, I feel it's safe to ignore that, so the 'year' I'm going with is 365.2425 days long.

When does the UFP and Starfleet adopt the Stardate system? It isn't mentioned in "The Cage" so I deduce that it was after the Talos IV incident. One clue is that STAR TREK CHRONOLOGY has it that the Stardate system used in TNG has its starting date (i.e. its 'epoch') in 2323 CE. Before that moment, they used a sequence of seven decade-long periods, each one spanning 10,000 SDU, from SD 0000.0 to 9999.9. The fuller version of this clock, as seen in "The Search For Spock," is 0000.00.00.00 to 9999.99.99.99, the year being decimalized so that the right-most digit in the 10-digit display would equal one billionth of a year = 0.031556952 seconds.

It can be deduced that the Talos IV incident happened in December of 2252. Let me suggest that the 1st 'decade' of Stardate time began at the stroke of Midnight (Greenwich Mean Time = Universal Time) when the date 1 January 2253 began on Earth, and came to an end 3,652.425 days later on 1 January 2263 at 10:12:00 (i.e. 0.425 days into that day). The 'decade' during which Kirk's 5-Year Mission happens began with SD 0000.00.00.00 at 10:12:00 on 1 January 2263 and ended a fraction of a second after 9999.99.99.99 -- after the passage of 20,000 SDU since the 1st SD 'decade' began -- or, 7,304.85 days since the Start, i.e. 0.15 days (3 hours + 36 minutes) before 1 January 2273 began: or at 20:24:00 on 31 December 2272.

In my view, SD 1277.1 (on Kirk's tombstone) represents the moment when Kirk assumed his captaincy of the Enterprise -- the start of the 5-Year Mission. By my method, this would have been 11,277.1 SDU since the Start, or 11.2771 years = 4,118.876197 days : subtract the 3,652 days (2253 thru 2262 CE), then 365 days (2263 CE), and that leaves 101.8761968 days into the year 2264. Subtract 31 days (January) + 29 days (February, 2264 being a Leap Year) + 31 days (March) leaves 10.87619675 days into April 2264 = 11 April 2264 at 21:01:43.3992 for the moment when SD 1277.0 [i.e. 1277.09.99.99] clicked over to SD 1277.10.00.00.

It takes an average spoken stardate -- such as 1277.0 -- to advance to the next deci-unit number (i.e. to 1277.1 ... 1277.2 ... 1277.3 ... etc.) one-tenth of a SDU, or 52 minutes + 35.6952 seconds. This 10th-of-a-Stardate Unit should, I suggest, be the "star-hour" referred to by Decker in STTMP, it being just about the run-time of a TV show back in the '60s, minus the commercials. That's one ten-thousandth of a 365.2425-day year = 0.876582 hours long = 52.59492 minutes = 3,155.6952 seconds.

Since SD 1277.1 represents a time almost exactly equal to 2100 hours on 11 April 2264, then if that date (04-11-2264 CE) is the start of the 5-Year Mission, then Year 2 would begin on 11 April 2265 ... Year 3 on 11 April 2266 ... Year 4 on 11 April 2267 ... and Year 5 on 11 April 2268 ... the Mission ending c. 10 April 2269, assuming it lasts exactly 5 years according to the Gregorian Calendar.

The final TOS episode (according to SD) would be "All Our Yesterdays" on SD 5943.7. Add 10,000 SDU (the 1st SD 'decade') and divide by 1,000, and that's 15.9437 years since the SD calendar began in 2253, i.e. 5,823.316847 days since : -3652 days [2253 thru 2262] -1461 days [2263 thru 2266] -365 days [2267 CE] -335 days [2268, January thru November] = 10.31684725 days into December 2268 = 11 December 2268 at 07:36:16. This date represents almost exactly 4 months before the end of a 5-Year Mission.

Thus, the entire run of TOS episodes fit snugly into that 5,000 SDU period of time, from 1277.1 to 5943.7, a period of 4,666.6 SDU = 4.6666 years, with 1/3rd of a year's worth of time left over before they return to Spacedock. I like to imagine that the emotional toll taken on Spock during his brief time on Sarpeidon in the distant Past, when he ate meat and impregnated Zarabeth . . . that this is what led to him seeking to go through the Kolinahr ritual.

Unfortunately, I see no way to incorporate the TAS episodes into my scheme -- and there's a major problem with the stardate given for STTMP. That 1st film should be at least 2,500 SDU after SD 5945-ish (at the earliest) or SD 6277.1 (at the latest), since Decker says Kirk hasn't logged a single 'star-hour' in 2 and a half years, that would mean STTMP ought to be set in SD 8445 to 8777.1 or so. If its Stardate 7410.2 is in the same decade as the TOS episodes, then that's only 1.1331 to 1.4665 years since those end-dates.

Thus, if it were up to me, I would either consider TMP to be non-canon, or would re-date it to a later stardate, to take into account Decker's reference to 2 + 1/2 years. If we were to re-date TMP, then we might also consider re-dating the TAS episodes, so as to fit them all into the 4-month period between "All Our Yesterdays" and the end of the 5-Year Mission. Those 22 TAS episodes would have to span a period of about 13.9 days each in order to fit snugly and evenly between SD 5943.7 and 6277.1 -- a not so impossible feat.

It's important to realize, of course, that the 1,000 SDU = 1 Earth year system wasn't made 'canon' until they made "The Wrath of Khan, there being exactly 1,000 SDU between the time when Carol Marcus recorded her PROJECT: GENESIS proposal [SD 7130.4] and when Chekov recorded his log entry upon entry into the Ceti Alpha system [SD 8130.4] -- and Kirk, soon after, says her recording was made "about a year ago." From "Space Seed" [SD 3141.9] until SD 9999.9 there are 6,858 SDU (6.858 years), and from the next moment -- SD 0000.0 in the next stardate 'decade' -- until SD 8130.4 (i.e. 8.1304 years) there's a total of 14,988.4 SDU = 14.9884 years, or just shy of the "15 years" mentioned by both Khan and Kirk as the interval between their meeting.

With very few 'snags', my system is able to make good sense out of nearly all the stardate information from TOS through the TNG-DS9-VOY period, with the exception of the TAS episodes and the 1st film. Ever since then, though -- unfortunately -- they haven't been doing a good job of having the newer shows (and the JJ-verse films) fit in with this system. I'm not even going to try to reconcile them with the 'main' canon of Trek.

I could go into more depth, but this is already pretty long, so I'll end it here. LLAP.

That's a very good effort, at least within the limitations of the episodes and films you've mentioned. The oddities with TAS and TMP have caused trouble with other people's solutions too!

 

[Henoch]

Great effort!

I respect how you determined the beginning stardate time as Jan. 1, 2263 using the ST Chronology clue (this one is new to me), but that assumes that the Okuda's Chronology is accurate which is debatable (they also use airdate order over stardate in the book ). The two problems with Jan. 1 2263 are: the stardate given in Charlie X for Thanksgiving; and the 2283 date on the Romulan Ale bottle in ST3:TSFS (your timeline will have the movie occurring in 2280). Maybe it's the bottle's expiration date? Based on those two clues, I put the beginning 'Federation' stardate system of 0000.0 on May 11, 2265. Prior to this date, I have Starfleet was using 'UE' stardates which goes through its decade rollover on Jan. 1, 2264. I have WNMHGB as not part of Kirk's five year mission rather he assumes Pike's current mission on EU stardate 1277.1 or April 10, 2265. After this, Kirk brings the Enterprise back to Earth spacedock for refit for its five year mission. The five year mission begins sometime before Federation stardate 1329.2 or Sept.10, 2266 for Mudd's Women (just in time for the new 1966 fall TV season).

I also recognize unavoidable stardate discrepancies during TOS through TMP. One of my rules for using stardates: "It's a script error, move along." I also agree that TAS stardates are to be ignored if you shoehorn TAS into the timeline.

My in-universe theory for the TMP stardate discrepancy: numerous Federation members complain that the Earth based stardate system is too confusing for them, so, the Federation throws up its hands and declares that members can use whatever system them want. United Earth chooses a system based on calendar year plus % into said year, so, “YYxx.x" whereYY is the last two digits of the year (2274) and xx.x is the percent into the year (10.2%). This puts TMP stardate 7410.2 on Feb. 12, 2274. Sometime after the change, even more chaos ensues, so the Federation reverses its rule on timekeeping and forces all members to use the previous stardate system. YMMV .

 

[Mres_was_framed!]

or would re-date it to a later stardate

I have considered fitting TAS in by suggesting that those stardates that appear to be more than 5 years above 1329 (for Mudd's Women) are the result of the mission being slightly longer than 5 years, other brief missions the Enterprise was carrying out before Kirk stopped being the captain. This works particularly well for BEM, which has an unusually high stardate following, apparently, a fan-made system that existed at the time. For TMP, it could either be that the stardate for BEM must be ignored, and therefore that TMP is set in the 7th year since the mission started, which would be 2271 or 2272, or that TMP is already using a system with the first two digits being the year, and is set in 2274.

 

[Callum MacLeod]

I use this handy dandy stardate calculator it fits in with the next gen system of star dates and even lets you calculate stardates down to the second.

 

[publiusr]

Wow