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Spoilers Marvel Cinematic Universe spoiler-heavy speculation thread

What grade would you give the Marvel Cinematic Universe? (Ever-Changing Question)


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    185
You can't be Marvel's First Family if you only turn up after all the other characters.

Plus, as noted, even if he wasn't a superhero yet you can be sure Reed would have been called in to help multiple times by now if he was around in the present.

Anyone who actually thinks that way will never be satisfied because the FF were never literally first in the comics and will never be literally first in the movies, regardless.

"First Family" has nothing to do with age. It's about celebrity and popularity. They're America's Sweetheart superhero team. That's all the term has ever meant and all it needs to mean in the movies.

As for Reed being called in to help by now, no you really can't be sure. The Avengers have always had Banner and Stark on speed dial, and more recently the Pym family and Wakanda. Reed being a genius doesn't mean they've ever actually needed him up to this point. Nor would that mean that they won't need him in the future. If he's just out there and we've just not yet heard of him, there's absolutely nothing wrong with that.

Though even that discussion could be rendered moot if the FF come from an alternate universe which I wouldn't have any serious problem with, either. As long as they're not blatantly repeating the man out of time stuff that wouldn't even work for the FF.
 
Half age plus seven means that's an acceptable age gap.

Of course, if they met earlier than when Reed was 42 and she was 29, it would be ick.

Yeah the half + 7 really only works if they meet now, obviously if they met when she was 17 and he was 30 it's a tad problematic, but even if they just shunt it to her being 24 and him 37 it's better. I suspect they'll just be vague about it and most people won't care.

Re the possible period setting, I get that Reed is supposed to be a genius. it's just getting harder to show that in the present day because our technology is so advanced now and so generic in many ways, depends if they just want him spouting vaguely defined technobabble that sounds good but is ridiculous, or whether they commit to having a stab out hard science (even if it's watered down a lot)
 
Re the possible period setting, I get that Reed is supposed to be a genius. it's just getting harder to show that in the present day because our technology is so advanced now and so generic in many ways,

Plus he lives in a Universe where nobody really blinks at use of nanotech and FTL travel is a real thing...
 
Is the desire to see F4 as a period piece a meta connection to the F4 coming ‘first’ in terms of the Marvel Age of comics? “Marvel’s First Family” as the old label goes.

But that's just why going back to their origins has never produced a good movie. What makes them work as the "First Family" is that they aren't new, that they're a well-established presence rather than just starting out. Heck, even the debut issue of their comic started with them as an established team and only covered their origin in a brief mid-issue flashback. As with Spidey, I feel it's a mistake to constantly dwell on their beginnings rather than everything they've built since then.

Also, at the beginning, they weren't even a family, aside from Sue and Johnny. Reed and Sue weren't married yet, and they didn't have kids. I want to see the FF as they are now, an established institution and an established family with Franklin and Valeria in the picture.


if you establish the F4 (and Doom?) as contemporaries then their absence and lack of contributions for the last 25 years or so is conspicuous. Starting with the F4 in another time period and assumedly moving them forward by some event does help to provide an explanation for that.

Not really, since there was that whole 5-year time jump the movies skipped over. Say that after the Blip, when Tony withdrew into isolation, the FF moved into the void he left in the tech sphere and the superheroic sphere. Maybe they've been off exploring other dimensions during the big global crises in post-Endgame movies. Or not. The "where were these other heroes during such-and-such?" question is perennial in superhero films, and was asked a lot about the various solo-hero films in the wake of The Avengers. So it's hardly a dealbreaker. It's no harder to explain than why nobody's mentioned the giant stone hand that's been sticking out of the Earth since the end of Eternals.


I think part of the association with the 60s is the trappings of the Fantastic Four. Their very name sounds like something from the 60s but also the association with space travel and exploration. Stuff like the Fantasticar and weird science though I guess the cold war dictator might be back in fashion at the moment.

I don't think its the only way to go but I can see why they would choose to go down that path.

If so, I still don't see how it possibly fits into the MCU timeline. The MCU's present day started out as a world not too dissimilar from our own in terms of its technology and knowledge of the universe. A lot of stuff been's retconned into the past since then -- the Supersoldier program, Hydra, Ant-Man, Skrulls, Eternals, etc. -- but it's all been classified or lost so that the present c. 2008 ended up looking pretty familiar. So if the FF had been around in the '60s, all the amazing inventions and discoveries they made would've had to be kept secret, and as I said, that just doesn't fit with the spirit of their stories, where everything they do is extremely public and famous. It would only make sense as an alternate timeline, and as I said, that still makes it tricky to integrate them into the main MCU going forward.

Besides, doing the FF in the '60s invites less comics-literate audiences to accuse the FF of ripping off The Incredibles. Which is an irony I'd think Marvel/Disney would want to shy away from.
 
For someone who claims to be a writer you seem to have a very limited imagination.

This.

I am also looking forward to seeing this as a period piece. The complaints I'm seeing are something any competent writer can overcome.

Emphasis on the word competent.

Someone could have made the imagination-challenged argument that Steve Rogers' origin had to be updated to some recent-era war, while toning down his costume to be less patriotic (think U.S. Agent) because the MCU did not need to be "trapped" in some origin story defined by the era it was set in--which is the argument against the F.F. being a period piece. They were defined not only by being more advanced than any actors of the Cold War / Space Race, but their motivations were tied to the concerns and aspirations of that era. Its a critical period of American (and world) history, which Lee and Kirby attempted to address through the efforts of the F.F. and era that nurtured them.

Marvel's own published history was never locked in one era (hence the retconned incorporation of Golden Age Timely/Atlas heroes into the Silver Age), with story foundations set across the decades, which is to say, the FF do not need to be in the 21st century to have relevance to the MCU. They have their own story to tell, which does not require being tossed into the already overstuffed muck of the present-day MCU characters and stories.

That said, if anyone was Hell-bent on placing the FF in the 21st century, anyone who actually read the comic would know that's an easy problem to overcome, since Reed and Doom both invented time machines.

Who's to say this is in the same timeline as Captain America and Marvel? We're now in the multiverse arc. Maybe they will get dragged into the main MCU timeline due to things happening with Kang. They can have their cake and eat it too.

Interesting point.
 
My guess is the movies story will jump between the 60s and the present day to explain why there has not been a mention of the Fantastic 4 before now.
 
As long as they're not blatantly repeating the man out of time stuff that wouldn't even work for the FF.

They never really used Cap's man out of time status for anything important, so it's not like they would be retreading much.

My guess is the movies story will jump between the 60s and the present day to explain why there has not been a mention of the Fantastic 4 before now.

I had an idea about them being a famous super science team in the 60's, but not superheros. Then the trip that gives them their powers would also deposit them in the present day. You spend the first quarter or a third of the movie in the 60's.
 
I'm not arguing going period is the only way to handle this property but throwing out some arguments in its favor. Obviously it appeals to some and not to others but I disagree that it's absolutely objective that one approach is better than the other.

Besides, doing the FF in the '60s invites less comics-literate audiences to accuse the FF of ripping off The Incredibles. Which is an irony I'd think Marvel/Disney would want to shy away from.
I am convinced this is something only comics-literate fans would say.
 
Yeah, they began in the '60s, but so did Spider-Man, Iron Man, Thor, the Hulk, Daredevil, the X-Men, Black Panther, Ant-Man & the Wasp, Nick Fury, Dr. Strange, Black Widow, Hawkeye, etc.

Most of which have evolved more with the times (in comics) than the Fantastic Four have. Imagine if the X-Men still consisted of the original five members, wearing variations on their original yellow/black school uniforms...

But this stasis is a bug, not a feature, so I can't say I'm looking forward to a period piece, which will just reinforce such notions.
 
Well, they certainly nailed the vibe of the 90s show...
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It is a bit jarring to see the more modern animation techniques applied to the old designs. Speaking of period pieces I'd be more interested in seeing the X-Men brought more up to date but I imagine they don't want to stumble over whatever might happen on the movie side. Maybe because I was reading the comics heavily in the late 80s/90s that I'm oversaturated on that period and not as intrigued by the idea of getting more of it.
 
Well, they certainly nailed the vibe of the 90s show...
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I've had two or three drinks so this may color my opinion, but that animation is disappointing. Is it me or does it look slow and awkward like some early 2000s flash internet animation.
 
They never really used Cap's man out of time status for anything important, so it's not like they would be retreading much.

I'm not saying that would be a major deal-breaker audience wide, though it would greatly disappoint me.

But the larger issue with repeating the man out of time stuff is that even if the MCU were going to do it someday, these are possibly the absolute worst characters imaginable to do it with. Especially Johnny and Ben.
 
I've had two or three drinks so this may color my opinion, but that animation is disappointing. Is it me or does it look slow and awkward like some early 2000s flash internet animation.

I had the same thought. The 3D models actually look really good, but they're doing the thing where they make the frame rate look like 2D limited animation and they're coming off really stiff looking. I Just hope the story is good and the animators hit a stride somewhere down the line.
 
Well, they certainly nailed the vibe of the 90s show...
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Hmm, okay. From the preview images, I was expecting something more along the cel-shaded 3D lines of What If...?, but this is reasonably close to the original animation style. The new voices are reasonably close to the originals too -- ironically a bit more so than the original actors whose voices have aged three decades.


I'm not arguing going period is the only way to handle this property but throwing out some arguments in its favor. Obviously it appeals to some and not to others but I disagree that it's absolutely objective that one approach is better than the other.

I never said it was. I just said that I personally don't understand why the idea of doing the FF specifically as a period piece appeals to other people.


Most of which have evolved more with the times (in comics) than the Fantastic Four have.

Are you kidding? Reed and Sue got married and had two superpowered kids. The team has changed membership multiple times, with She-Hulk being the most prominent member outside the core four, and built a sprawling extended cast. They've built up long, complex histories and relationships with Namor, Black Panther, the Inhumans, Galactus, the Watcher, the Skrull, etc. That's hardly static.

Maybe the issue is that people are preoccupied with their origin story, which is tied into the space race. But I've been saying for years that the reason previous FF movies have been so weak (with Rise of the Silver Surfer being the best) is that their origin is the least interesting and least important thing about them. What defines them is not how they began, but who they become as a result of it. I've always hoped that the MCU would have the sense not to rehash the origin story yet again, and the hints of this being a period piece make me afraid that they'll repeat the same mistake.


I had the same thought. The 3D models actually look really good, but they're doing the thing where they make the frame rate look like 2D limited animation and they're coming off really stiff looking.

To be fair, Akom's animation in the original X-Men was also very stiff, and a lot sloppier-looking than this. The problem then, aside from Akom's general crappiness, was that they tried to emulate the detailed line drawings of the comics, which made it difficult to animate the characters fluidly. Compare that to the contemporary Batman: The Animated Series, where they pared down the character models to be as simplified and un-detailed as possible, which facilitated doing very fluid and expressive animation.
 
The casting for F4 looks awful. And no idea why they’d put it in the 60s. I’ll wait for streaming. This looks DOA.
 
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