How would the Federation have treated Jem'Hadar prisoners of war?

[kkt]

I hope that Odo was smart enough to realize that.

Are there any books in which Odo rfeturns to Deep Space Nine?
It should be.

The only thing I didn't like with the series was how they broke up the good, old gang in the last episode. Thy should all have remained on the station for further adventures in books and possible movies.

Paramount (or whoever owned Star Trek that week) probably make it clear that there would be no DS9 movies.

 

[XCV330]

It's not a good idea leaving someone in command of a place indefinitely, or any staff, really in an organization like Starfleet. Navy commands for something applicable like 3 years for an overseas base commander assignment, or 2 years for a ship like a carrier. Obviously ST is not the real world, and they have 5 year tours (and its fictional) but that also may explain why Starfleet is so mutiny-happy with people spending well past 5 years on the same ship or other duty station, till fraternization is the norm, the command chain is disrespected and crews are identifying more with each other than their parent organization.

 

[Lynx]

It's not a good idea leaving someone in command of a place indefinitely, or any staff, really in an organization like Starfleet. Navy commands for something applicable like 3 years for an overseas base commander assignment, or 2 years for a ship like a carrier. Obviously ST is not the real world, and they have 5 year tours (and its fictional) but that also may explain why Starfleet is so mutiny-happy with people spending well past 5 years on the same ship or other duty station, till fraternization is the norm, the command chain is disrespected and crews are identifying more with each other than their parent organization.

That may be the truth in reality.

But for keeping a good series at a high standard, it's necessary to keep the popular characters in the series..
Many series have suffered from too much changes in the cast.
Keeping the good characters for future bokks and possible movies would have been a good idea.

NCIS is a series which has suffered from radical changes in recent years when it comes to characters. It still survives due to the fact that the storytelling is still good and newer series are so incredibly bad in comparision.
But it has lost a lot with almost all of the old team gone.

 

[Farscape One]

That may be the truth in reality.

But for keeping a good series at a high standard, it's necessary to keep the popular characters in the series..
Many series have suffered from too much changes in the cast.
Keeping the good characters for future bokks and possible movies would have been a good idea.

NCIS is a series which has suffered from radical changes in recent years when it comes to characters. It still survives due to the fact that the storytelling is still good and newer series are so incredibly bad in comparision.
But it has lost a lot with almost all of the old team gone.

There's also the flip side of that coin... knowing when to leave the stage. Sometimes, a show can be on for too long. You want to leave with the audience wanting more, not wishing you had ended long before you actually did.

As an example, THE X-FILES springs to mind. Should have stopped at the end of season 7. (While there were parts of season 8 I did like, and casting Robert Patrick is never a bad move, season 9 was definitely a steep decline in quality... and the ratings showed it. Bringing it back for those two short seasons was also just meh... they were very lackluster overall.)

 

[Lynx]

There's also the flip side of that coin... knowing when to leave the stage. Sometimes, a show can be on for too long. You want to leave with the audience wanting more, not wishing you had ended long before you actually did.

As an example, THE X-FILES springs to mind. Should have stopped at the end of season 7. (While there were parts of season 8 I did like, and casting Robert Patrick is never a bad move, season 9 was definitely a steep decline in quality... and the ratings showed it. Bringing it back for those two short seasons was also just meh... they were very lackluster overall.)

Yes, that's the way it is.

I totally agree on The X-files. Great series but it should have stopped when Mulder left. It sort of ended then.

I have the "Mulder seasons" on DVD but haven't bothered to buy the rest.

On the other hand, both TNG and DS9 could have lasted longer than they did.

A series which should have lasted longer was Stargate Atlantis. I can't understand why they scrapped it after a few seasons just for some movie that never was and for the horrible Stargate Universe.

CSI New York is also a serie which should have lasted longer

As for TNG and DS9, I often wonder what the Enterprise was doing during the Dominion War. Are there no books about it?

 

[Lynx]

It's not a good idea leaving someone in command of a place indefinitely, or any staff, really in an organization like Starfleet. Navy commands for something applicable like 3 years for an overseas base commander assignment, or 2 years for a ship like a carrier. Obviously ST is not the real world, and they have 5 year tours (and its fictional) but that also may explain why Starfleet is so mutiny-happy with people spending well past 5 years on the same ship or other duty station, till fraternization is the norm, the command chain is disrespected and crews are identifying more with each other than their parent organization.

Another thing I must add is that many organizations actually work better with a team of people who know each other since a couple of years and have created some sort of bond than to have a lot of people coming and going.

The intification with a "parent organization" can never be as strong then what it is in a team which have worked together for many years.

It's my experience from many places I've worked at that the best results are made with a well-functioning "together" team where everyone is ready to giv that little extra for both the organization and their close friends.

 

[Farscape One]

Yes, that's the way it is.

I totally agree on The X-files. Great series but it should have stopped when Mulder left. It sort of ended then.

I have the "Mulder seasons" on DVD but haven't bothered to buy the rest.

On the other hand, both TNG and DS9 could have lasted longer than they did.

A series which should have lasted longer was Stargate Atlantis. I can't understand why they scrapped it after a few seasons just for some movie that never was and for the horrible Stargate Universe.

CSI New York is also a serie which should have lasted longer

As for TNG and DS9, I often wonder what the Enterprise was doing during the Dominion War. Are there no books about it?

I agree that STARGATE ATLANTIS had at least another year or two in them.

I also agree that DS9 had one more year in them... just doing a season on the aftermath of the Dominion War would have given them enough material to work with, in addition to seeing Bajor join the Federation.

However, I completely disagree about TNG. Season 7 is proof that it was out of gas. Greats like "Phantasms", "Parallels", "The Pegasus", "Lower Decks", "Masks", and "All Good Things..." doesn't justify a season full of "Interface", "Force of Nature", "Inheritance", "Homeward", "Sub Rosa", "Journey's End", "Firstborn", and "Bloodlines".

And while many can argue that TNG season 1 did not have as many greats as season 7 (though this can be extremely debatable), season 1 at least has the excuse of it being young and trying to find itself and what works. And it can never be said season 1 was boring. Season 7 was mediocre and boring overall.

 

[Lynx]

I agree that STARGATE ATLANTIS had at least another year or two in them.

I also agree that DS9 had one more year in them... just doing a season on the aftermath of the Dominion War would have given them enough material to work with, in addition to seeing Bajor join the Federation.

However, I completely disagree about TNG. Season 7 is proof that it was out of gas. Greats like "Phantasms", "Parallels", "The Pegasus", "Lower Decks", "Masks", and "All Good Things..." doesn't justify a season full of "Interface", "Force of Nature", "Inheritance", "Homeward", "Sub Rosa", "Journey's End", "Firstborn", and "Bloodlines".

And while many can argue that TNG season 1 did not have as many greats as season 7 (though this can be extremely debatable), season 1 at least has the excuse of it being young and trying to find itself and what works. And it can never be said season 1 was boring. Season 7 was mediocre and boring overall.

I have to agree on your comments about TNG. Interesting that you have picked almost the same episodes as I would have done as "great" and "episodes wh could have been without".

So I can see that you have a point here.

Maybe it could have worked better if they had hired new writers. Unfortunately Berman and his gang lost their edge when it comes to Voyager too, already in season 3.

As for season 1 of TNG, at least it had some promise while season 7 was more a sign of decline.

 

[Farscape One]

I have to agree on your comments about TNG. Interesting that you have picked almost the same episodes as I would have done as "great" and "episodes wh could have been without".

So I can see that you have a point here.

Maybe it could have worked better if they had hired new writers. Unfortunately Berman and his gang lost their edge when it comes to Voyager too, already in season 3.

As for season 1 of TNG, at least it had some promise while season 7 was more a sign of decline.

VOY season 3 is definitely the weakest season of that series, even more so than VOY season 7. I don't think it's a coincidence that Jeri Taylor was in charge of the writing room for TNG season 7 and VOY season 3, and both seasons are the low points of those shows.

(To be clear, I like a lot of the episodes that she writes between TNG and VOY. But as a showrunner, I don't think was very good. Not a ding on the person, as there's plenty of people who excel in a type of job but when given a leadership role in the same environment, they just aren't nearly as effective.)

 

[at Quark's]

I have to agree on your comments about TNG. Interesting that you have picked almost the same episodes as I would have done as "great" and "episodes wh could have been without".

So I can see that you have a point here.

Maybe it could have worked better if they had hired new writers. Unfortunately Berman and his gang lost their edge when it comes to Voyager too, already in season 3.

As for season 1 of TNG, at least it had some promise while season 7 was more a sign of decline.

Having recently watched Penumbra, I can see it now ....

Berman I have a team of writers working night and day to find a cure for DS9 running out of steam.
Executive: Have them document their efforts. Then eliminate them.
Berman (taken off-guard) Founder? Erm, I mean, erm, Sir?
Executive: Activate some backups and order them to continue their predecessors' work. Perhaps a fresh perspective will speed matters along.

Joking aside, I think DS9 made the right call. They knew the chances of a follow up to the DS9 series were slim to none anyway. Given that, I think they made the story stronger by closing the book very explicitly. A clear declaration that the story was completed, it could stand on its own, that it didn't need any additions or extensions. It might even be that the title of the finishing episode ('All good things') was chosen to express that,

Sometimes it's wise to not listen to the audience that wants more, more more ... until they're fed up with it.

 

[Farscape One]

Having recently watched Penumbra, I can see it now ....

Berman I have a team of writers working night and day to find a cure for DS9 running out of steam.
Executive: Have them document their efforts. Then eliminate them.
Berman (taken off-guard) Founder? Erm, I mean, erm, Sir?
Executive: Activate some backups and order them to continue their predecessors' work. Perhaps a fresh perspective will speed matters along.

Joking aside, I think DS9 made the right call. They knew the chances of a follow up to the DS9 series were slim to none anyway. Given that, I think they made the story stronger by closing the book very explicitly. A clear declaration that the story was completed, it could stand on its own, that it didn't need any additions or extensions. It might even be that the title of the finishing episode ('All good things') was chosen to express that,

Sometimes it's wise to not listen to the audience that wants more, more more ... until they're fed up with it.

TNG's finale was "All Good Things...". DS9's was "WHAT YOU LEAVE BEHIND".

But I agree with you, and have had this conversation with my wife many times. It's better to know when to leave the stage... makes your audience want more. Not stay on so long they get tired of you.

(I still feel DS9 could have done an 8th year, but I do think it worked out better this way. Makes us appreciate the awesomeness even more.)

 

[at Quark's]

^ oops my bad. Sometimes my memory plays tricks on me as I'm getting older

And also, I think we already saw signs of DS9 deteriorating in the last season. I could have done without the soapy Worf-Ezri-Julian love triangle for example.

Then again, that also could simply be me having a different taste.

 

[Farscape One]

^ oops my bad. Sometimes my memory plays tricks on me as I'm getting older

And also, I think we already saw signs of DS9 deteriorating in the last season. I could have done without the soapy Worf-Ezri-Julian love triangle for example.

Then again, that also could simply be me having a different taste.

DS9's 7th season is BY FAR the best one of the three shows that had a 7th year.

 

[at Quark's]

That could be true, but I wasn't comparing to other S7's - just to DS9 S6, S5, etc

 

[Farscape One]

I wouldn't say it dropped much. Not when you have greats like "TREACHERY, FAITH, AND THE GREAT RIVER", "ONCE MORE UNTO THE BREACH", "THE SIEGE OF AR-558", "IT'S ONLY A PAPER MOON", "INTER ARMA ENIM SILENT LEGES", and a 10-part final arc to ties things up.

 

[fireproof78]

There's also the flip side of that coin... knowing when to leave the stage. Sometimes, a show can be on for too long. You want to leave with the audience wanting more, not wishing you had ended long before you actually did.

Indeed, yes. I am a strong believer in "leaving the audience wanting more" than to keep going on and on and expect the hits to keep on playing.

Sometimes it's wise to not listen to the audience that wants more, more more ... until they're fed up with it.

Yup. And that turning point is never really known.

 

[Lynx]

VOY season 3 is definitely the weakest season of that series, even more so than VOY season 7. I don't think it's a coincidence that Jeri Taylor was in charge of the writing room for TNG season 7 and VOY season 3, and both seasons are the low points of those shows.

(To be clear, I like a lot of the episodes that she writes between TNG and VOY. But as a showrunner, I don't think was very good. Not a ding on the person, as there's plenty of people who excel in a type of job but when given a leadership role in the same environment, they just aren't nearly as effective.)

I also have mixed emotions when it comes to Jeri Taylor.

As for Voyager, I definitely gave up on that series after a certain episode in season 6 and therefore never watched season 7, with the exception of Endgame which I decided to watch a minute before the episode started and that was a mistake. That episode was horrible.

I've also red the synopsis of Homestead and I'm glad that I never watched it.

Even if season 3 had some real bum episodes, I can't imagine it being worse than season 7.

Having recently watched Penumbra, I can see it now ....

Berman I have a team of writers working night and day to find a cure for DS9 running out of steam.
Executive: Have them document their efforts. Then eliminate them.
Berman (taken off-guard) Founder? Erm, I mean, erm, Sir?
Executive: Activate some backups and order them to continue their predecessors' work. Perhaps a fresh perspective will speed matters along.

Joking aside, I think DS9 made the right call. They knew the chances of a follow up to the DS9 series were slim to none anyway. Given that, I think they made the story stronger by closing the book very explicitly. A clear declaration that the story was completed, it could stand on its own, that it didn't need any additions or extensions. It might even be that the title of the finishing episode ('All good things') was chosen to express that,

Sometimes it's wise to not listen to the audience that wants more, more more ... until they're fed up with it.

But still, I would have loved to see the good, old gang continue their adventures in books. As it is now, I force myself to watch the end scenes and after it's over, I look forward to see Emissary again.

TNG's finale was "All Good Things...". DS9's was "WHAT YOU LEAVE BEHIND".

But I agree with you, and have had this conversation with my wife many times. It's better to know when to leave the stage... makes your audience want more. Not stay on so long they get tired of you.

(I still feel DS9 could have done an 8th year, but I do think it worked out better this way. Makes us appreciate the awesomeness even more.)

Maybe. But still.................

^ oops my bad. Sometimes my memory plays tricks on me as I'm getting older

And also, I think we already saw signs of DS9 deteriorating in the last season. I could have done without the soapy Worf-Ezri-Julian love triangle for example.

Then again, that also could simply be me having a different taste.

I wouldn't say it dropped much. Not when you have greats like "TREACHERY, FAITH, AND THE GREAT RIVER", "ONCE MORE UNTO THE BREACH", "THE SIEGE OF AR-558", "IT'S ONLY A PAPER MOON", "INTER ARMA ENIM SILENT LEGES", and a 10-part final arc to ties things up.

I agree with Farscape One here. I found season 7 great, except for the end scenes in What You Leave Behind when the good old gang goes separate ways.

As for the "Worf-Ezri-Julian love triangle", I could actually live with it. It was actually more watchable than most of the other relationships which Star trek series have showed up, the Chakotay-Seven relatrionship in Voyager the most unrealistic of them all.

But Star Trek writers are bad when it comes to relationships.

Me too, that's why I try to avoid them in my stories!

Indeed, yes. I am a strong believer in "leaving the audience wanting more" than to keep going on and on and expect the hits to keep on playing.

Yup. And that turning point is never really known.

Yes, the problem is that you'll never know. Just like in the world of rock music. Legendary Cream broke up in 1968 after three years of excellent performances, really leaving the audience wanting more. So much that they had five sold out houses in a row when they made a chain of "reunion shows" in 2005.

But there are great bands who have continued for decades and still are great.

So why mess up a good thing?

 

[kkt]

I am fine with most of the people going their separate ways after the war. That's what happens. I'd rather they show it then pretend DS9 will remain static forever.

 

[evilchumlee]

I am fine with most of the people going their separate ways after the war. That's what happens. I'd rather they show it then pretend DS9 will remain static forever.

Yeah i've never quite understood the "everything must always be the same". DS9 will still be there, but like, the people on DS9 will change. People do different things. Some may still be involved in some way. Others not.

It's actually one of the things I enjoyed about the overall feel of the Picard series... things change, but that also doesn't mean relationships disappear... and I loved that at least in some small way, people from various stages in Picard's life we still involved. The first season showed he was still good friends with his doctor from the Stargazer, obviously he's still close with most of the Enterprise crew, and I think we sometimes like to gloss over his relationship with Raffi... despite her actually having worked with him longer than the Enterprise crew did... we just weren't around for that period, so WE have more of a connection to the Riker/Picard dynamic, but Raffi has a long history with him as well.

 

[fireproof78]

So why mess up a good thing?

Because I don't want it to overstay its welcome. Too much of a good thing and law of diminishing returns.