How would the Federation have treated Jem'Hadar prisoners of war?
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There would be very few. But I think that it's possible that a Jem'Hadar could be disarmed, damaged, or debilitated by phaser fire, explosions, or improvised weapons.
If you get incapacitated (but not killed), you can't surrender yourself (or choose to not surrender yourself and fight to the death). So I think it's quite conceivable the Federation could end up with some Jem'Hadar POW's in some scenarios.
I would think that each Jem'Hadar could be outfitted with a self destruct charge, something similar to that gadget we saw in TNG's "Reunion". If overwhelmed or captured, they either solo detonate or (in extreme situations) mass detonate. Given that they have the fanaticism of suicide bombers, why not give them the kit to go with it?
If you can genetically program a being to walk, talk, fight, worship you, and hate pretty much everyone else... giving them the biofeedback ability to mentally set off their internal depth charges shouldn't be that hard.
If you can genetically program a being to walk, talk, fight, worship you, and hate pretty much everyone else... giving them the biofeedback ability to mentally set off their internal depth charges shouldn't be that hard.
Certainly possible. But even then, it's possible they get incapacitated to the point of unconsciousness before they know what's even going on. (Like in the example scenario I gave in my opening post). The device would have to be built in/attached to their body (not just worn), and not easily removable in any way.
Undoubtedly very easy to do given that Jem'Hadar probably have a pretty solid skeletal structure, the device could probably be nestled in one of their larger bones. If a 3mm³ device could kill a Klingon and the one next to him, than a 300mm³ device (about the size of a pea) could probably clear a small room).
Given the tech level of the Dominion (they're apparently able to design Jem'Hadar that can just live off a tiny Ketracel White tube), I'd agree that would be entirely possible.
You'd also want the device to have 2 modes, perhaps. A mode "ON" that triggers detonation whenever it senses the Jem'Hadar in which it's implanted is unconscious, and a mode "OFF" that doesn't. The soldiers then could activate the device whenever they get into battle or dangerous territory, to ensure they never get captured in any way/ possibly take someone with them even if they get taken out before they can do anything about it, and switch it off whenever they aren't (after all, accidents do happen in safe territory too; no sense taking a fellow Jem'Hadar with you in, say, a shipyard accident).
There's a lot of arguments being bandied about that the Jem'Hadar would never surrender or would rather die than be captured. That seems... unrealistic to me. It feels to me more like the kind of thing Klingons would (nominally) do than Jem'Hadar. The Jem'Hadar are soldiers, not warriors.
Anyway, the Federation would clearly treat any Jem'Hadar POWs it captures humanely. Likely the Federation would request the Dominion to provide shipments of Ketracel White to keep Jem'Hadar POWs alive. I agree that the Vorta-dominated Dominion administration would probably refuse such a request, considering its captured soldiers as expendable. In that scenario, I agree that the Federation would put Jem'Hadar POWs into stasis with the intention of repatriating them back to the Dominion once the war is over.
That's not "keeping its hands clean." That's subjecting its prisoners to inhumane treatment and would be a clear violation of the Geneva Conventions today, let alone a violation of the law of a society that's supposed to be more benevolent.
Anyway, the Federation would clearly treat any Jem'Hadar POWs it captures humanely. Likely the Federation would request the Dominion to provide shipments of Ketracel White to keep Jem'Hadar POWs alive. I agree that the Vorta-dominated Dominion administration would probably refuse such a request, considering its captured soldiers as expendable. In that scenario, I agree that the Federation would put Jem'Hadar POWs into stasis with the intention of repatriating them back to the Dominion once the war is over.
That's not "keeping its hands clean." That's subjecting its prisoners to inhumane treatment and would be a clear violation of the Geneva Conventions today, let alone a violation of the law of a society that's supposed to be more benevolent.
Sure. But either way, I don't think the Jem'Hadar would necessarily have the same sort of taboos around being captured as Klingons.
That would be the very definition of inhumane treatment. It would be a violation of their fundamental rights as prisoners of war and as sentient beings.
I see no reason to think that. The Dominion are pragmatists -- they know full well that it's inevitable some of their Jem'Hadar will be captured through no fault of their own, and executing useful, loyal soldiers who have been returned to them only weakens their forces.
Vorta are expected to commit suicide upon capture. I see no reason why this wouldn't extend to Jem'Hadar as well.
Jem'Hadar are expected to die in combat. If they survive at all, it IS their fault. The only way Jem'Hadar are allowed to survive is if they are victorious in battle. That's just the way the Dominion works.
As for weakening their forces? Jem'Hadar troops are literally grown in a lab. Any troops they lose via combat (or execution) can be quickly and cheaply replaced. So the Dominion has no reason to care about any troops they lose.
It's right there in their credo of battle. "As of this moment, we are all dead. We go into battle to reclaim our lives." They can't do that if they're captured.
A Jem'Hadar prisoner would have the same attitude as his commanders would - his life is over and he is a worthless failure. Yeah, it is kind of sad, but it's just the way things are. That's how everyone in the Dominion thinks.
Jem'Hadar are expected to die in combat. If they survive at all, it IS their fault. The only way Jem'Hadar are allowed to survive is if they are victorious in battle. That's just the way the Dominion works.
As for weakening their forces? Jem'Hadar troops are literally grown in a lab. Any troops they lose via combat (or execution) can be quickly and cheaply replaced. So the Dominion has no reason to care about any troops they lose.
It's right there in their credo of battle. "As of this moment, we are all dead. We go into battle to reclaim our lives." They can't do that if they're captured.
A Jem'Hadar prisoner would have the same attitude as his commanders would - his life is over and he is a worthless failure. Yeah, it is kind of sad, but it's just the way things are. That's how everyone in the Dominion thinks.
That's a fair point -- I had forgotten Keevan's lines about being obliged to kill himself in "Rocks and Shoals." Yeah, maybe Jem'Hadar are likely to try to kill themselves upon capture.
I'm pretty sure there are numerous DS9 episodes where the production of new Jem'Hadar and the supply of them with Ketracel White were logistical bottlenecks for the Dominion.
I think we've seen enough Jem'Hadar behave in an aberrant fashion from what they're programmed to believe that it's not out of the question. If a group can go rogue and take over an Iconian gateway, and then the group going after them can logic themselves into killing their Vorta there's room for a circumstance that sees some surrender. We even see a a group actively try to break their addiction to the White. The easiest argument would be something similar to Weyoun 5 or they might actually be defective from the perspective of the Dominion, which doesn't seem out of the question since they were tinkering with them to create Alpha Jem'Hadar. I don't think we can take Dominion claims to their perfection at face value when we've seen that they aren't, and we know the Vorta's own engineering certainly seems far from being able to guarantee perfect loyalty to the Dominion. I don't think it would ever happen en masse, or in large numbers, but I think it's far from impossible that a unit might be taken prisoner.
This is also a really good point.
Maybe the Jem'Hadar simply do not have a predictable uniform response to capture.
I suggest that, if a group of Jem'Hadar had been taken prisoner by the Federation, and were subsequently executed, the Dominion would respect that.
Meaning: If the Federation expects the Dominion to treat Federation prisoners humanely - by negotiating and sending them home - then shouldn't the Federation respect Dominion cultural values in the same manner?
So if the Dominion would expect any Jem'Hadar prisoners to be executed (or commit suicide), and the Federation complies with that request, wouldn't that be a good thing?
It would mean that the Federation respects the Dominion enough to give any captured prisoners the honorable death that they deserve - by swift execution.
Meaning: If the Federation expects the Dominion to treat Federation prisoners humanely - by negotiating and sending them home - then shouldn't the Federation respect Dominion cultural values in the same manner?
So if the Dominion would expect any Jem'Hadar prisoners to be executed (or commit suicide), and the Federation complies with that request, wouldn't that be a good thing?
It would mean that the Federation respects the Dominion enough to give any captured prisoners the honorable death that they deserve - by swift execution.
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No. Fundamental rights are not reciprocal. You do not murder your prisoners, period.
Furthermore, the Dominion is not going to treat Federation POWs humanely under any circumstances. The Dominion was already subjecting Federation prisoners to inhumane treatment before the war broke out. They're not gonna start treating Federation prisoners humanely just because the Federation behaves as cynically as them.
The Dominion is an organization that effectively introduced itself by committing multiple acts of mass murder, and disciplined its "subjects" by infecting them with genetically engineered atrocities. The Federation should not try for reciprocity with it.
The closest thing the Federation could cone to allowing Jem'Hadar captives an honorable death is to simply lock them up together and let them snap each other's necks.
The closest thing the Federation could cone to allowing Jem'Hadar captives an honorable death is to simply lock them up together and let them snap each other's necks.
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